Do you accept the theory of evolution?

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I'm also kind of in the camp of it being at least aided by a comet depositing additional material on the earth...maybe even some microbes. At least the possibility of it, seeing that comets are primarily made of ice.
 
I never said that evolution taught that life just popped up fully-formed. HAHA! :whatever:



Again. Prove to me that Abiogenesis is possible.

Scientists have already been able to prove that abiotic molecules and simpler molecules with redox reactions can self-organize and self-replicate under proper conditions similar to some models of Earth's early atmosphere. They proved that amino acids can spontaneously form protein micosperoids which are likely the most common ancestor of all life on earth, or similar to it. It's not proof, but it's a start.


Which one do you know happened??? The word evolution has six different and unrelated meanings or stages.
There is plenty of evidence for all these phenomena, not just microevolution, which is only different from macroevolution in scale.




Evolution is hypothetical.
There is so much evidence behind the theory, which is falsifiable, that it is "hypothetical" only to the degree that the atomic theory, the theory of special relativity, etc, are.

The steps of the scientific method, which most of us learned in high school science classes, are simple: [1] Observe data, [2] Make an hypothesis, [3] Test the hypothesis, [4] If it passes the tests, make it a theory, [5] Test and retest, [6] If it passes all tests, make it a law.
Actually that is only one aspect of the scientific method. The method can also be used to construct frameworks into which observations fit -- theories.

So, how does one test the hypothesis of evolution? The obvious answer is that one cannot test this hypothesis. It is not possible to create experiments which will either support or defeat this particular hypothesis.
There are many ways to test the theory (not the hypothesis, which it is not). For example, DNA sequencing, which shows how organisms can be grouped by sequence similarity into trees so congruent with traditional taxonomy that they are used to strengthen or correct taxonomic classifications. All the evidence of common descent visible from proteins to endogenous viruses also provide testable evidence. In fact, scientists have uncovered a number of different mechanisms organisms use to facilitate large evolutionary changes: gene duplication, which distributes a lot of genetic material with very little selective constraints; the process of transferring genetic material between cells that are not an organism's offspring, which is how species acquire beneficial genes from each other; and the way populations reassort large numbers of different alleles while establishing reproductive isolation.


Evolution, which is gradual change, cannot be tested in a laboratory experiment. How does one observe 13 billion years of gradual change in a laboratory? One does not. One can not.
Actually, it is quite simple to observe evolution occurring,when populations change their genetic composition from generation to generation. In the laboratory, this has been seen in fruit flies, mice and bacteria and in the field, cichlid fish. Testing evolution with controlled experiments has become its own field.

Scientists cannot observe events that took place billions of years ago. There were no witnesses to write down what happened. There were no cameras to record the events. The hypothesis of evolution is built on data scientists are not able to see or recreate.
By that standard, a great many accepted theories would not be theories, but that is not necessarily how science works. In this case, scientists can infer past macroevolution from transitional fossils, which provide plausible links between several different groups of organisms, for example between birds and dinosaurs, or fish and limbed amphibians.

The evolution of human beings is said to have involved the gradual transition of creatures from primates (apes) to humans. That is the hypothesis. But how can one create experiments to support this hypothesis? In all the recorded history we have, apes remain apes and humans remain humans. No one has ever seen evolution of species taking place, and no one can create a situation in which it can take place. In order for this hypothesis, that primates gradually evolved into humans, to be supported, experiments must be conducted that show this change taking place. It cannot be done.
Actually scientists have seen evolution of species taking place within a life time, as with the examples above. We didn't evolve from primates, we ARE primates. And there is much evidence of human evolution, including: The correspondence of chromosome 2 in humans to two ape chromosomes, the fact that the closest human relative -- the chimpanzee -- has near-identical DNA sequences to human chromosome 2 but are found in two separate chromosomes, and the fact that this is also true of the gorilla and the orangutan. In addition, chromosome 2 contains a vestigial centromere, unusual for any chromosome, as well as vestigial telomeres in the middle of its sequence. This indicates lost ancestral functions not belonging to the current species.

This is very strong evidence in favor of the common descent of humans and other apes, indicating that the relic of an ancient telomere-telomere fusion marks the point at which two ancestral ape chromosomes fused to give rise to human chromosome 2.
 
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I'm also kind of in the camp of it being at least aided by a comet depositing additional material on the earth...maybe even some microbes. At least the possibility of it, seeing that comets are primarily made of ice.

I do find that an interesting theory.

Between that, and the goldilocks planet concept, any alien life we might meet could be a lot less alien than we might imagine.
 
I do find that an interesting theory.

Between that, and the goldilocks planet concept, any alien life we might meet could be a lot less alien than we might imagine.

Well, just to find even actual living bacteria on another planet would probably be the most profound scientific discovery in history....not to mention actual complex life. Even jellyfish or the like.
 
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I hope in my lifetime scientists are able to send a probe to check out europa's possible subice oceans. To find complex life there would be mind blowing.
 
I hope in my lifetime scientists are able to send a probe to check out europa's possible subice oceans. To find complex life there would be mind blowing.

That's always been at the top of my 'list' too. Not that I would expect alien sharks to be swimming around or the like, but just to find some tube worms would be incredible. Gigantic undertaking, though....more complex than anything we've sent anywhere. And would it be a one-way trip? Probably best not to bring some strange alien lifeform back to Earth, but how would it be recorded and analyzed from up there, aside from with cameras?

Also, I don't know how much of an issue possible contamination of that world might be, or how it could be insured against.
 
I'd prefer starships flying over cities (a la the Phoenix Lights), but that'd be nice too.

It'll be a while before we can go to an alien world (outside the solar system, anyway).

But some Jovian caviar would be nice.
 
That's always been at the top of my 'list' too. Not that I would expect alien sharks to be swimming around or the like, but just to find some tube worms would be incredible. Gigantic undertaking, though....more complex than anything we've sent anywhere. And would it be a one-way trip? Probably best not to bring some strange alien lifeform back to Earth, but how would it be recorded and analyzed from up there, aside from with cameras?

Also, I don't know how much of an issue possible contamination of that world might be, or how it could be insured against.

For various reasons, there would be so much red tape nationally and internationally speaking that it would be next to impossoble to bring any complex life form back to earth. One major reason as you stated is possible contamination not of their world but of ours. We would have no way of knowing what possible contagions or parasites the life form would be harboring. The CDC could take all the proper precautions but the risk is great. That being said all great discoveries have been possible through great risks. We would bring back a specimen or design devices to study them eventually. I almost guarantee that the discovery of any complex life would light a fire in the scientifoc field. Funding would pore in and research and development would skyrocket.

I had a write up that told what it would take to accomplish a mission like this to europa and the money and time to accomplish the mission. I cant remember where i saved it to. Im bad at organizing my stuff.

Its kind of depressing to think of all the advancements and possibilities that will not come until after my lifetime.
 
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For various reasons, there would be so much red tape nationally and internationally speaking that it would be next to impossoble to bring any complex life form back to earth. One major reason as you stated is possible contamination not of their world but of ours. We would have no way of knowing what possible contagions or parasites the life form would be harboring. The CDC could take all the proper precautions but the risk is great. That being said all great discoveries have been possible through great risks. We would bring back a specimen or design devices to study them eventually. I almost guarantee that the discovery of any complex life would light a fire in the scientifoc field. Funding would pore in and research and development would skyrocket.

I had a write up that told what it would take to accomplish a mission like this to europa and the money and time to accomplish the mission. I cant remember where i saved it to. Im bad at organizing my stuff.

Yeah, I don't think we want an 'Alien' movie situation here. :D But I've always wondered about possible microbes being on the actual Europa probe craft and if there's more of a concern with it being water as opposed to a barren wasteland like Mars or something as harsh as Venus. Not that Europa is calm and sunny, but contact with alien water seems like a whole different ball of wax.
 
Yeah, I don't think we want an 'Alien' movie situation here. :D But I've always wondered about possible microbes being on the actual Europa probe craft and if there's more of a concern with it being water as opposed to a barren wasteland like Mars or something as harsh as Venus. Not that Europa is calm and sunny, but contact with alien water seems like a whole different ball of wax.


Yeah thats true. Most likely the water wouldnt be entirely sterile devoid of microbs ehoch would make the environment and mission a whole different beast from the mars missions. Or say it is devoid of microbs and we carry some microbs to this environment and leave them in the water and record what happens over time. The experimental possibilities are endless. I wouldnt want to risk any possible ecosystem already in place but the opportunity to learn is a huge one.
 
As always, I accept creation as there is much evidence to it. Evolution is true, too, but not to the extent that everything could be related. Man is not related to anything in the sea.

The Bible speaks "after it's kind" and while we may not know exactly the extent of "after it's kind," it is safe to say that a dolphin is in no way related to a fox, or a person for that matter. Furhter, tests on a fly in a science lab still in the end kept the fly a... fly.

The Bible and it's prophecies show strong support for the literal interpretation of the Bible and that there is a higher power out there.

We've been through this road before, though, haven't we?

Like I always say, evolutionists have their reasons ot believe what they believe and crationists have their reasons to believe what they believe.
 
Go far back enough and they are related, since all human languages are related. Or do you also have a problem with the evolution of language?
Last time I checked, the Proto-Human hypothesis was still being debated.
Otherwise nobody could speak of "unrelated languages", just "Related languages, we're not sure how".
 
As always, I accept creation as there is much evidence to it. Evolution is true, too, but not to the extent that everything could be related. Man is not related to anything in the sea.

The Bible speaks "after it's kind" and while we may not know exactly the extent of "after it's kind," it is safe to say that a dolphin is in no way related to a fox, or a person for that matter. Furhter, tests on a fly in a science lab still in the end kept the fly a... fly.

The Bible and it's prophecies show strong support for the literal interpretation of the Bible and that there is a higher power out there.

We've been through this road before, though, haven't we?

Like I always say, evolutionists have their reasons ot believe what they believe and crationists have their reasons to believe what they believe.

Dolphins and humans are both mammals. And for the upteenth time belief does not factor into science. You follow the facts and data and come to the logical conclusion. A person's belief or disbelief in any scientific fact is irrelevant because facts and data can not be disproven or whiped from existence based on belief or faith.
 
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Dolphins and humans are both mammals. And for the upteenth time belief does not factor into science. You follow the facts and data and come to the logical conclusion. A persons belief or disbelief in any scientific fact is irrelevant because facts and data can not be ignored based on belief or faith.
I did bring up my evidence for creationism, but everybody told me it was off-topic.
 
As always, I accept creation as there is much evidence to it. Evolution is true, too, but not to the extent that everything could be related. Man is not related to anything in the sea.

The Bible speaks "after it's kind" and while we may not know exactly the extent of "after it's kind," it is safe to say that a dolphin is in no way related to a fox, or a person for that matter. Furhter, tests on a fly in a science lab still in the end kept the fly a... fly.
Evolution does not describe itself that simplistically. Sometime way back, a common form of organism branched which...much farther down the line...eventually led to a dolphin being what it is and a fox being what it is. It wasn't a case of this organism can be a fox or dolphin at the flip of a coin.

The bible says nothing of that because it wasn't actually known during the times when the texts that comprise the bible were conceived and written. In fact very little about the natural world, even in areas much simpler than evolution, was. So it doesn't serve as a legitimate argument against it either.

The Bible and it's prophecies show strong support for the literal interpretation of the Bible and that there is a higher power out there.
There is no scientific support for it regarding the origin of life and evolution..there is only what is proposed by religious ideology that's based on no evidence. As far as believing in a higher power, that's the choice of belief or not. But evolution is is true regardless of religion....just as gravity and the formation of planets and stars are.

We've been through this road before, though, haven't we?

Like I always say, evolutionists have their reasons ot believe what they believe and crationists have their reasons to believe what they believe.
Evolution is believed because it is factually true, through calculation, analysis and evidence...just like any other science. Religion has its reasons to single out evolution because of what it ultimately implies about religion, but it can't argue it scientifically or rationally. The ball is in religion's court not to keep following that 'road' of denial or trying to argue what something not of 'its kind'. If evolution is ever going to be scientifically disproven, it won't come from religion.

I did bring up my evidence for creationism, but everybody told me it was off-topic.
And it's a polite way of putting it.
 
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I did bring up my evidence for creationism, but everybody told me it was off-topic.

There is no scientifically sound evidence for creationism. DNA, geological data, biologocal data, and a slew of other data accumulated throughout scientifc history points to an earth with an age of 4.5 billion years give or take some time and an ecosystem that evolved slowly over time.

Ironically if model of evolution is ever replaced it will be science that another scientific model and not creationism. Creationism will never supplant evolution as the origin of life on this planet because it can never be scientifically proven. Unless a god comes to earth and says he did it and even then scientists wouod want empirical data. Religion and mythology will never disprove evolution because they only deal in...well religion and mythology neither of which scientific, logical, or based on factual data.
 
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Dolphins and humans are both mammals. And for the upteenth time belief does not factor into science. You follow the facts and data and come to the logical conclusion. A person's belief or disbelief in any scientific fact is irrelevant because facts and data can not be disproven or whiped from existence based on belief or faith.
But when you accept something that in completely every aspect, not a fact, that is a belief.
 
I think children need to be taught many different ways of thinking....and when they come to the age where they can make their own decisions, they have a variety of lessons to pull from....

But I think the greatest thing we can teach them is a respect of other belief systems, something that I'm seeing apparently was not taught to some here....

Lets show a little respect shall we.....that goes for all.
 
Evolution does not describe itself that simplistically. Sometime way back, a common form of organism branched which...much farther down the line...eventually led to a dolphin being what it is and a fox being what it is. It wasn't a case of this organism can be a fox or dolphin at the flip of a coin.

The bible says nothing of that because it wasn't actually known during the times when the texts that comprise the bible were conceived and written. In fact very little about the natural world, even in areas much simpler than evolution, was. So it doesn't serve as a legitimate argument against it either.


There is no scientific support for it...there is only what is proposed by religious ideology that's based on no evidence.


Evolution is believed because it is factually true, through calculation, analysis and evidence...just like any other science. Religion has its reasons to single out evolution because of what it ultimately implies about religion, but it can't argue it scientifically or rationally. The ball is in religion's court not to keep following that 'road' of denial or trying to argue what something not of 'its kind'. If evolution is ever going to be scientifically disproven, it won't come from religion.


And it's a polite way of putting it.
Isn't evolution a theory where all life has a common ancestor somewhere down the line. The Bible doesn't take evolution that far.

Evolution is true to an extent but not as you put it or want to believe it is. And I'm not saying religion will disprove evolution, just that evolution as we know it is following exactly where the Bible says evolution would be. And I have to use the "after it's kind" because evolution is following that and that is how God set things up at creation (and as mentioned, it's remarkable that things are following that). If this is ever proven to be wrong, then I will re-examine this issue.

Bible prophecy and it's fulfillment is quite remarkable despite how you put it and is definite evidence towards something, that something being a higher power.
 
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But when you accept something that in completely every aspect, not a fact, that is a belief.

That is called logic. The facts and data point to evolution. There is no other option. Evolution exists without mine or anyone elses belief. It is fact. It happened. There is inumerable amounts of data and evidence that leads to this conclusion. Whereas with any religion if no one believes in it it will essentially die. If tomorrow every scientist on the planet refused to believe in evolution the data and evidence would be the same and point to the same conclusion. Belief doesnt effect data and science. Belife is irrelevent in the lab.
 
Then how do you explain the Bible?

A collection of word of mouth stories and borrowed myths detailing the culture, history, worldview and perspectives of ancient Hebrews written by various authors on scrolls and then collected together and placed into a book form.
 
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