Discussion: Racism - Part 1

[terry78]

A white person with cornrows needs the job, though. So they can afford a mirror to see how stupid they look!

As much as I hate to admit racial differences, there are certainly looks that only people of certain races can pull off. Black guys, you just can't rock a mullet. But that's okay. I'm a red Head and can't pull off an afro.

And we are all eternally grateful that you understand that.

 

[SuperT]

A white person with cornrows needs the job, though. So they can afford a mirror to see how stupid they look!

 

[Docker2.0]

Was this posted here yet?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...others-porch/?utm_term=.7fb5e84c58e6#comments

 

[summerteeth]

Was this posted here yet?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...others-porch/?utm_term=.7fb5e84c58e6#comments

The crazy part is how disconnected the police officer is from reality. When he says I was siting there the whole time and the police officer calls him full of ****

 

[DeadPresident]

Statistically isolated incidents being used to make inferences about a whole population?

[YT]AMBLg3jS32k[/YT]

 

[summerteeth]

Statistically isolated incidents being used to make inferences about a whole population?

[YT]AMBLg3jS32k[/YT]

That's what drives me nuts is that instead of treating everything as a case by case basis people want to cry racism and ignore the results even if they disagree with the facts of the case. Mike Brown is a really good example. People called it a miscarriage of justice even though every single piece of forensic evidence aligned with the police officers story and went against the story that Mike Brown's friend gave. Then you have the instances in Chicago, Tulsa and Eric Gardner that have police officers who appear to be in the wrong.

 

[Pink Ranger]

As much as I hate to admit racial differences, there are certainly looks that only people of certain races can pull off. Black guys, you just can't rock a mullet.

I'll give $100 to terry78 to at least give it a try.

 

[DeadPresident]

That's what drives me nuts is that instead of treating everything as a case by case basis people want to cry racism and ignore the results even if they disagree with the facts of the case. Mike Brown is a really good example. People called it a miscarriage of justice even though every single piece of forensic evidence aligned with the police officers story and went against the story that Mike Brown's friend gave. Then you have the instances in Chicago, Tulsa and Eric Gardner that have police officers who appear to be in the wrong.

Yep, that's what the blind media frenzy has created. There's now the unspoken, unwritten "truth" out in the ether among regressive liberals that a cop can never kill a black man, irrespective of his actions that may have led to that conclusion.

Not to mention all the statistics Larry Elder rattled off indicating that cops are statistically less likely to shoot black men. We've come to this mass psychosis where 5-10 high profile cases of cops killing black males is now seen to be representative of over 7000 cop related murders or whatever the total number was. It's completely insane at this point.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

U.S. Justice Department finds racial bias in San Francisco policing

A six-month study by the U.S. Justice Department released Wednesday found that the department disproportionately used force on people of color, and stopped and searched them more often than it did white people.


Federal investigators also discovered that while black and Latino drivers were more likely to be pulled over than white drivers, they were “less likely to be found with contraband.”

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-francisco-police-bias-20161012-snap-story.html​

 

[cronosred]

Four black males arrested in brutal beating of a white 17 year old because he posted pro police comments on social media.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...says-its-a-hate-crime/?utm_term=.7bfaef88c9ad

 

[TheCommissioner]

Awful, but not surprising nor does any rational person condone such actions

https://medium.com/@SonofBaldwin/be...-of-false-equivalence-91fa134a20dd#.6j5wqpdty

 

[samsnee]

This is a big step.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/10/18/13316916/police-chief-apology-racism

 

[SuperT]

Apologies are nice I guess but what are the actionable things they're going to do to keep it from continuing to happen? That's what people actually care about.

 

[samsnee]

Agreed but it's a start.

 

[hellified]

Statistically isolated incidents being used to make inferences about a whole population?

[YT]AMBLg3jS32k[/YT]

screw larry elder he' s todays equivalent of those blacks who were paraded out during the civil rights struggle to give a counterpoint on how its not as bad as its made to look.

[YT]gjIX4QMIiOw[/YT]

This interview must have done some time in the early 60s..today its universally accepted that the early 60s was pretty freaking clearly racist. And yet @1:45 in you see a young black man say the "biggest problem for the negro is that he feels sorry for himself"...in the early 60s..under Jim Crow at the height of the civil rights struggle. The biggest problem for the negro is that he feels sorry for himself. 50 years later in 2016 you say how could he NOT see it?

50 years from NOW that generation will see larry elder and say the same thing.

 

[DeadPresident]

screw larry elder he' s todays equivalent of those blacks who were paraded out during the civil rights struggle to give a counterpoint on how its not as bad as its made to look.

[YT]gjIX4QMIiOw[/YT]

This interview must have done some time in the early 60s..today its universally accepted that the early 60s was pretty freaking clearly racist. And yet @1:45 in you see a young black man say the "biggest problem for the negro is that he feels sorry for himself"...in the early 60s..under Jim Crow at the height of the civil rights struggle. The biggest problem for the negro is that he feels sorry for himself. 50 years later in 2016 you say how could he NOT see it?

50 years from NOW that generation will see larry elder and say the same thing.

You're pathetically trying to dismiss Larry Elder because he refuses to let his race be the most important part of his identity. Comparing the 1960s civil rights movement to now? You're jumping through everything logical hoop possible to create a false equivalence.

But, continue to paint black America as perpetual victims incapable of extricating themselves from their circumstances, you just prove Elder and people like him right.

 

[Docker2.0]

Racism doesn't exist. It's all in black people's head. Always the victim. Always. No exception.

 

[DeadPresident]

Bad decisions don't exist. It's all in non-black people's head. Always the subjugated. Always. No exception.

See I can say dumb **** that eliminates all contextual nuance too.

 

[Hotwire]

Racism doesn't exist. It's all in black people's head. Always the victim. Always. No exception.

Um, let me share a little thing with you. I grew up in Cecil County Maryland. To this day, it still has a strong KKK presence. It's not as out in the open as it used to be but, they still have the occasional rally. At the end of my road lived my best friend's great-grandfather. A former Grand Cyclops in the KKK. This man hated anyone who wasn't white. He never tried to hide it, either. His son, was nearly as bad. My friend had to have his grandfather co-sign for a car loan. Upon entering the dealership, the grandfather loudly asked if any ni****s worked there. Luckily, my friend didn't turn out like them.

Don't sit there and deny the existence of racism. I've seen it first hand. Not only in the community I grew up in but, in members of my family. I've seen it directed at me (white), my wife (Puerto Rican), and oldest daughter (black).

 

[DeadPresident]

He was almost certainly being sarcastic, I suspect.

 

[Docker2.0]

Um, let me share a little thing with you. I grew up in Cecil County Maryland. To this day, it still has a strong KKK presence. It's not as out in the open as it used to be but, they still have the occasional rally. At the end of my road lived my best friend's great-grandfather. A former Grand Cyclops in the KKK. This man hated anyone who wasn't white. He never tried to hide it, either. His son, was nearly as bad. My friend had to have his grandfather co-sign for a car loan. Upon entering the dealership, the grandfather loudly asked if any ni****s worked there. Luckily, my friend didn't turn out like them.

Don't sit there and deny the existence of racism. I've seen it first hand. Not only in the community I grew up in but, in members of my family. I've seen it directed at me (white), my wife (Puerto Rican), and oldest daughter (black).

See the post above me.

He was almost certainly being sarcastic, I suspect.

 

[Hotwire]

See the post above me.

Fair enough.

 

[hellified]

You're pathetically trying to dismiss Larry Elder because he refuses to let his race be the most important part of his identity. Comparing the 1960s civil rights movement to now? You're jumping through everything logical hoop possible to create a false equivalence.

But, continue to paint black America as perpetual victims incapable of extricating themselves from their circumstances, you just prove Elder and people like him right.

You're completely missing the point and I'm not comparing the 60s to today...yes there has been progress but racism is still prevalent in our society and it has real effects on people in real ways. Whats pathetic is that you are trotting out the same tired argument that people have made in the past even when things were markedly horrible.


There are articles and Op Ed pieces dating back to early 1900s of people both black and white saying that things weren't as bad as they were (cuz they were living IN it so many either couldn't or refused to see it) and the example they used to counter the people who were speaking out was the fact that there were rich and well to do blacks at that time.

There were rich black people during the height of Jim Crow and lynching..and because of that I'm sure there were people then who rattle off names like Jack Johnson and Madam CJ Walker Paul Robeson, Ethel Waters Marian Anderson and Eubie Blake etc..and because these individual made it its proof positive that those blacks speaking out are just playing victims!

You want to talk about a lack of nuance..you use the condition of Black America and the black individual interchangeably. You can talk about black individuals who have done well but that doesn't negate that black AMERICA still have to deal with a racially skewed justice system or housing system or banking system, educational system, health system etc etc. all studied facts.

Are things AS bad as they were in 1960..no but then things in 1960 weren't AS BAD as they were in 1900 either but that doesn't mean there weren't real issues. So a generation in 2060 looking back at 2016 is going to say how did you guys from that time NOT see the issues then? And larry elder will be regarded at that future time just as that young black man (who grew up seeing jim crow signs and laws mind you yet says the crap he said) in the Malcolm X vid is regarded TODAY. Out of touch.

 

[Docker2.0]

You're completely missing the point and I'm not comparing the 60s to today...yes there has been progress but racism is still prevalent in our society and it has real effects on people in real ways. Whats pathetic is that you are trotting out the same tired argument that people have made in the past even when things were markedly horrible.


There are articles and Op Ed pieces dating back to early 1900s of people both black and white saying that things weren't as bad as they were (cuz they were living IN it so many either couldn't or refused to see it) and the example they used to counter the people who were speaking out was the fact that there were rich and well to do blacks at that time.

There were rich black people during the height of Jim Crow and lynching..and because of that I'm sure there were people then who rattle off names like Jack Johnson and Madam CJ Walker Paul Robeson, Ethel Waters Marian Anderson and Eubie Blake etc..and because these individual made it its proof positive that those blacks speaking out are just playing victims!

You want to talk about a lack of nuance..you use the condition of Black America and the black individual interchangeably. You can talk about black individuals who have done well but that doesn't negate that black AMERICA still have to deal with a racially skewed justice system or housing system or banking system, educational system, health system etc etc. all studied facts.

Are things AS bad as they were in 1960..no but then things in 1960 weren't AS BAD as they were in 1900 either but that doesn't mean there weren't real issues. So a generation in 2060 looking back at 2016 is going to say how did you guys from that time NOT see the issues then? And larry elder will be regarded at that future time just as that young black man (who grew up seeing jim crow signs and laws mind you yet says the crap he said) in the Malcolm X vid is regarded TODAY. Out of touch.

That what kills me. It's kind of like the police brutality stuff. For years it's been a common fact that they'd beat and kill minorities but now that there are cameras and it's being brought to the forefront, people still don't want to admit that there is a race problem. All you hear is why didn't they do what the officer says or if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear. I've watched these same people who say minorities play the victim role but completely ignore the post of videos that show a clear abuse of power. Unless you grew up in that environment, to say someone is "playing" the victim role is not yours to call.

 

[DeadPresident]

You're completely missing the point and I'm not comparing the 60s to today...yes there has been progress but racism is still prevalent in our society and it has real effects on people in real ways. Whats pathetic is that you are trotting out the same tired argument that people have made in the past even when things were markedly horrible.


There are articles and Op Ed pieces dating back to early 1900s of people both black and white saying that things weren't as bad as they were (cuz they were living IN it so many either couldn't or refused to see it) and the example they used to counter the people who were speaking out was the fact that there were rich and well to do blacks at that time.

There were rich black people during the height of Jim Crow and lynching..and because of that I'm sure there were people then who rattle off names like Jack Johnson and Madam CJ Walker Paul Robeson, Ethel Waters Marian Anderson and Eubie Blake etc..and because these individual made it its proof positive that those blacks speaking out are just playing victims!

You want to talk about a lack of nuance..you use the condition of Black America and the black individual interchangeably. You can talk about black individuals who have done well but that doesn't negate that black AMERICA still have to deal with a racially skewed justice system or housing system or banking system, educational system, health system etc etc. all studied facts.

Are things AS bad as they were in 1960..no but then things in 1960 weren't AS BAD as they were in 1900 either but that doesn't mean there weren't real issues. So a generation in 2060 looking back at 2016 is going to say how did you guys from that time NOT see the issues then? And larry elder will be regarded at that future time just as that young black man (who grew up seeing jim crow signs and laws mind you yet says the crap he said) in the Malcolm X vid is regarded TODAY. Out of touch.

It's not the same old argument, and here's why: You're confusing institutional racism with social racism. Of course racism still exists, and there is social conduct that needs to be addressed because it is racist. The issue is a lot of people are shouting racism saying America is a racist country, the police (as an institution, important distinction) are racist, companies are racist, etc, etc. That's clearly not the case because as far as I'm aware there is no more racist legislation or explicitly racist laws. Therefore it is markedly different from the times you're referencing.

So, if a white cop shoots a black man wrongfully and it's because the man was black, is that because the police as an institution are racist, or is it because certain individuals in that profession are racist? It's not institutional racism just because it happens in a professional capacity. If a white guy works at a bank and he's an ***hole to a black guy because the guy is black when he comes to deposit money it's not the bank (institution) that's racist, it's that one ***hole.

When you're talking about the racist healthcare, housing, etc what exactly are you referring to? Are you referring to letters on a bill, or is this a perception? Since this appears to go lost on people often, I'm not being facetious, I'm asking genuinely, because it's important to this distinction. Additionally, would you agree the black community in America has any personal responsibility, with things like out of proportion violence in the black communities, or is it the monolith of "America" that needs to change and then the problems in those communities will all disappear?

How is it that a statistic like single motherhood can rise from 20 something percent to sixty something percent from a more racist period in the 60s to a less racist period like now? The problem I'm seeing is there's no way to distinguish between where personal responsibility starts and prevalent institutional practices begin, and we'd need observable proof of them.

Again, for your aspersions about Elder to be true we'd need to be talking about a time when there was legislated racism, it isn't so they're not the same contexts. There's a lot of negativity from the black community towards any other black American who seems to not allow his race to dictate his circumstances, which is interesting.