The General Comic Discussion Thread - Part 1

[gohei_]

I read the main Convergence story, thought it was completely forgettable.

At the moment I am reading the Hawkeye run by Matt Fraction, and I am finding it really entertaining. The art reminds me a lot of Sorrentinos work on Green Arrow, although a bit "simpler", if you will.

 

[NDX]

I much prefer Aja's work over Sorrentino's.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

Question how did Bruce Wayne lose his money and more importantly how did Lucius gain it?

 

[Babillygunn]

Question how did Bruce Wayne lose his money and more importantly how did Lucius gain it?

Spoiler

Joker stole it during Joker War by using the plan that The Designer came up with years before for Catwoman to steal Bruce’s fortune. But then in the midst of the Joker War, I believe that Catwoman stole the money back and put it in Lucius’ name. The last part was kind of quickly revealed, so I might be a bit off on the details.

 

[Babillygunn]

I read the main Convergence story, thought it was completely forgettable.

At the moment I am reading the Hawkeye run by Matt Fraction, and I am finding it really entertaining. The art reminds me a lot of Sorrentinos work on Green Arrow, although a bit "simpler", if you will.

I loved Sorrentino’s art during Green Arrow. I just wish that the writing would have been a bit better during that time.

 

[gohei_]

I loved Sorrentino’s art during Green Arrow. I just wish that the writing would have been a bit better during that time.

I see. Personally I thought the writing was just fine. The only thing that bugs me is the whole chosen one/destiny to lead the clan crap. So it was Nice to see him decline them in the End.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

Spoiler

Joker stole it during Joker War by using the plan that The Designer came up with years before for Catwoman to steal Bruce’s fortune. But then in the midst of the Joker War, I believe that Catwoman stole the money back and put it in Lucius’ name. The last part was kind of quickly revealed, so I might be a bit off on the details.

I see.

 

[Babillygunn]

I see. Personally I thought the writing was just fine. The only thing that bugs me is the whole chosen one/destiny to lead the clan crap. So it was Nice to see him decline them in the End.

Yeah. It had potential but then it just kind of got dull to me. Then the introduction of Diaz and referencing him killing Richard Dragon was borderline sacrilege

 

[gohei_]

Yeah. It had potential but then it just kind of got dull to me. Then the introduction of Diaz and referencing him killing Richard Dragon was borderline sacrilege

I don't have any comment on that as those were completely new characters to me when I read it, and honestly, I still don't know much about them.
While we're on the subject, have you read the Rebirth run, if so, did you like it?
I haven't personally done so but it is on my list to read someday in the future.

 

[Babillygunn]

I don't have any comment on that as those were completely new characters to me when I read it, and honestly, I still don't know much about them.
While we're on the subject, have you read the Rebirth run, if so, did you like it?
I haven't personally done so but it is on my list to read someday in the future.

Yeah. I’m a big fan of Richard Dragon. It was basically the equivalent of taking a bada— character and killing him unceremoniously off panel by a nobody.

I really enjoyed the Rebirth run. It definitely got the Oliver/Dinah dynamic perfectly and it introduced some great characters like the Ninth Circle, which is essentially a more messed up version of Court of Owls. The Rebirth run also emphasized Oliver’s differentiation from the JL and the other heroes in DC, squarely placing him as a street level hero who defended the ones who fell through the cracks. Superman may fight cosmic level beings and Batman might save the city, but neither of them are looking out for the homeless, for example. Oliver does. Rebirth played up on that aspect and then also showed the unfortunate fallout which was that Oliver was constantly disrespected, both by the public and often by other heroes. That made it hard to see, but the run did a good job of contrasting those perceptions by portraying Oliver as a complete bada—. My favorite story in the Rebirth run was one where Oliver was called upon to oversee Parasite’s transport in prison. I won’t give anything away but there are a lot of twists in the story and it shows why Oliver is, at his core, one of the most necessary heroes in DC.
The bad in the Rebirth run is that it is almost a self fulfilling prophecy. The run ends in the worst way possible and completely disrespects the character. Don’t expect happy endings for GA. I was (and still am) very angry at how they ended his title.

 

[gohei_]

I see. Seems like it's a fun read.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Thoughts on Three Jokers #3?

The third issue had a few developments that I'd like very much to see developed further in regular continuity. A few others could be developed in an interesting way depending on the writer doing it.

Outside of that, the story started strong, dipped during the 2nd issue, and become rather pointless by the 3rd.

I've never been the biggest Geoff Johns fan, but this new phase of his, playing in an acclaimed writer's sandbox and riffing on them, doesn't work for me at all. It is Fabok's art, despite owing maybe a bit too much to Brian Bolland, a la Gary Frank and David Gibbons in Doomsday Clock, that prevents the book from being a total disaster.

 

[Mani-Man]

It had some cool ideas and came around in a good circle, but in the end it leaves us at a place that brings nobody really farther than before.

Spoiler

Loved the Joe chill part and yeah the idea of closing this wound for Bruce.
Because after everything, it makes little sense for Bruce to still hate the man when he is even saving a Joker or so.
Sure the man killed his parents and that left Bruce completely damaged, but still.
That makes this idea super neat that the Joker wants to be Bruces pain, his reason etc.
Many writers go with this idea, but it lacks reason to me...why does the joker want that? Just because? Eh thats kind of lazy.

I hate when Batman throws at people that they dont understand why he doesnt kill the joker...but then doesnt explain it to them.
Dude, its a legitime question...just answer it so people can understand it.
Throwing a "i want to kill him but i dont do it" at people constantly, sounds really dumb after a while.

The art is what makes this book, and especially the last issue.
Fabok outdone himself, every panel is incredible beautiful...and lets not forget Brad Anderson for the fantastic Coloring.

But in the end its a bit like Kings batman run, as it leaves the characters pretty much where they were at the beginning.
Joker behind bars, characters emotionally troubled, questions and no real answers.
Thats okay normally, but everybody expected more, bigger things from this.

 

[super85]

Three Jokers. Art was fantastic. Story was a let down, nothing particularly offensive, but Johns has hyped this story for what, 4 years?, it felt like he has probably re-written it several times.

He answers a few questions, but lets a lot not to be answered at all. Rather silly when you hype something for years, to still pull some "Its a story for another day" stuff.

I agree that this was mostly worth a read becouse of the art. Johns writing was better when he was mainly a comic book writer who sometimes gets to do stuff for DC TV and animation. Now when it seems he has mainly been working on TV/Movies, his comics haven't had the same quality.

 

[Captain Tired]

The very premise of Three Jokers is one that I find to be unideal in the first place. The thought of the Joker finding and creating these 'legacy' Jokers, as an explanation for the character's different guises over the years, is just not one that I find to be palatable.

It's an obvious and yet clunkily thought up idea, whose main purpose is to simply pander to some hardcore fans' feverish desire to see their favourite incarnations of the character interact with each other.

I didn't think it was outright bad, but it was pretty corny and unoriginal in its premise, and I could easily have gone the rest of my life without having read it, personally.

Even the capper that states that it's not the Joker's name, but the idea behind him that matters, was very obvious and felt like a lazy thematic justification for what was essentially just a mildly fun bit of continuity porn.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Even the capper that states that it's not the Joker's name, but the idea behind him that matters, was very obvious...

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

 

[Captain Tired]

Yeah, that.

 

[Babillygunn]

I was ambivalent toward 3 Jokers at the beginning and now that it’s over, it was a decent story but nothing earth shattering. The Jason/Barbara angle was out of left field. Gordon knowing Batgirl’s identity was bizarre. And it made little sense for Bruce to have known Joker’s identity all along when he asked the Mobius Chair who Joker was and then seemed shocked at the answer.

 

[super85]

Babillygunn

Gordon knowing Batgirls identity wasn't even a thing. Its a non-issue really its not like "whooo dang!!!!" reveal. The Mobius chair thing felt like Johns has written and rewritten his ending /conclusion to this story several times over the years. Like I wrote earlier, "Three Jokers" was this idea that he had that he thought was cool , but it he has written several drafts over the years. If Batman already knew it, he would probably have asked something else. Unless Johns wants to say something like "Well Batman wanted the be really sure, and asked again"...weird.

 

[Mani-Man]

You can somewhat build a bridge to the whole mobius chair thing, but the point is not that we as readers build that, its the writers job to build a bridge.
And on that, Johns went rather clumsy.

It all seems in the end super pointless.
Why ask for the jokers name on the chair when you knew it all along and it never mattered?
Even the "he just wanted to be sure" doesnt work because in the end Bruce made it clear that it never mattered...so why asking for his name in the first place?
Just for the simple fact of pointless knowledge? Thats not a reason to build around a book.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

So is this it now, does Batman 100% know who the Joker really is? And do the readers know? I hope not. I don't want to know.

 

[Captain Tired]

It seemed to me that the Three Jokers was attempting to fully legitimise the backstory that was hypothesised by the Joker in The Killing Joke.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Oh, right. Well TKJ is my all-time #2 comic, but as far as I'm concerned it's a possible origin. I don't ever want to know who he really is.

 

[Captain Tired]

Agreed.

 

[Mani-Man]

So is this it now, does Batman 100% know who the Joker really is? And do the readers know? I hope not. I don't want to know.

He seems to be pretty sure.
No we dont get told the name...unless i missed it.
They imply that the story the Joker told in killing joke might be true...but to be honest, im super lost.
Was it the comedian that survived? Was he the "real" one? What the hell?

Does it even matter in the end, since there is nothing that indicates to me that it runs on the main continuity.
Its kind of a story lost in time it seems.