Black Widow at the Box Office!

[Comicbookguy339]

Black Widow had a stronger opening than F9.
By definition, that means BW had much faller to fall.

Oh I agree with this. My point is that BW is not doing bad at all, especially considering it is available on D+.

 

[Filmfreak]

Black Widow had a stronger opening than F9.
By definition, that means BW had much faller to fall.

The only Fast movie that opened bigger than 100 million in the US was Furious 7. Marvel movies tend to do far more domestically. Also F9 had poor reviews and word-to-mouth, hence why it dropped so much the following week. It wouldn't have been the case for Black Widow if it wasn't released in Disney+ as well.

 

[psylockolussus]

The only Fast movie that opened bigger than 100 million in the US was Furious 7. Marvel movies tend to do far more domestically. Also F9 had poor reviews and word-to-mouth, hence why it dropped so much the following week. It wouldn't have been the case for Black Widow if it wasn't released in Disney+ as well.

Also f8 iirc earned less than 100 million compare to F7's box office in North America.

Marvel Studios have always been a bigger draw in North America than Fast/Furious.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Love how after certain folks were laughing over Space Jam beating Black Widow last week, it's already dropped below it this weekend. Wouldn't be surprised if Old and Snake Eyes do too next weekend. Looking at word of mouth, it could very well bump back up to second place next week. Even with the D+ release, I think it's legs from here on out will be very impressive.

 

[psylockolussus]

Love how after certain folks were laughing over Space Jam beating Black Widow last week, it's already dropped below it this weekend. Wouldn't be surprised if Old and Snake Eyes do too next weekend. Looking at word of mouth, it could very well bump back up to second place next week. Even with the D+ release, I think it's legs from here on out will be very impressive.

With Space Jam Legacy free in HBO MaX and getting terrible reviews + Old/Snake Eyes - movies that are not eXactly big draws to the casuals. Its obvious that Black Widow would have better legs. Hopefully this will help the fallen Avenger to be the top grossing movie of 2021 in North America. Its already #3.

 

[Filmfreak]

Love how after certain folks were laughing over Space Jam beating Black Widow last week, it's already dropped below it this weekend. Wouldn't be surprised if Old and Snake Eyes do too next weekend. Looking at word of mouth, it could very well bump back up to second place next week. Even with the D+ release, I think it's legs from here on out will be very impressive.

How exactly is Space Jam a good comparison to Widow when it's not only another day-and-date release, but it's also available for free in HBO MAX? And it's a film with horrendous reviews and word-to-mouth that was destined to flop way before the pandemic. And yet it still managed to beat Black Widow last week. What's next? Comparing with a second weekend drop of an Adam Sandler film? The whole point of the argument is that simultaneous release in streaming, and hence piracy, hurt ticket sales. Not the best of examples.

 

[CaptainWagner]

How exactly is Space Jam a good comparison to Widow when it's not only another day-and-date release, but it's also available for free in HBO MAX? And it's a film with horrendous reviews and word-to-mouth that was destined to flop way before the pandemic. And yet it still managed to beat Black Widow last week. What's next? Comparing with a second weekend drop of an Adam Sandler film? The whole point of the argument is that simultaneous release in streaming, and hence piracy, hurt ticket sales. Not the best of examples.

The point is that last week people were dunking on Black Widow for losing to Space Jam. I said it was nonsense then and this weekend proved I was right.

 

[WeaponXCII]

It's great news to hear that Black Widow has crossed the $300 million mark!

Something that I'm not quite clear on, though, is the Disney+ revenue. Why exactly isn't it counted towards the total gross?

I know that streaming isn't an actual, physical box office, but surely it should count. With the pandemic, the landscape of the film industry is changing, and maybe this should be one of them: change "box office" to "international gross".

 

[psylockolussus]

It's great news to hear that Black Widow has crossed the $300 million mark!

Something that I'm not quite clear on, though, is the Disney+ revenue. Why exactly isn't it counted towards the total gross?

I know that streaming isn't an actual, physical box office, but surely it should count. With the pandemic, the landscape of the film industry is changing, and maybe this should be one of them: change "box office" to "international gross".

You answered your question, streaming isn't part of boX office.

It doesn't matter if the landscape is changing. Theaters and streaming app are two different platforms. That would be like adding Dvd/sales or DVD revenue to boX office numbers.

Disney+ revenue counts elsewhere. When they take a look at the overall profit they got from the movie (boX office + home media + partnership deals + syndication rights), streaming numbers are probably there. But adding up Disney+ revenue to boX office numbers? Thats a terrible idea.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[SomeOldGuy]

FWIW I saw it this afternoon and the theater had 4 people counting me. That said there were maybe 20 cars in the parking lot (it’s a Cinemark multiplex) likely including those of the 4 employees I saw, so basically it was discount Tuesday and more or less no one was there for anything.

Casual moviegoing just isn’t a thing again yet.

 

[WeaponXCII]

You answered your question, streaming isn't part of boX office.

It doesn't matter if the landscape is changing. Theaters and streaming app are two different platforms. That would be like adding Dvd/sales or DVD revenue to boX office numbers.

Disney+ revenue counts elsewhere. When they take a look at the overall profit they got from the movie (boX office + home media + partnership deals + syndication rights), streaming numbers are probably there. But adding up Disney+ revenue to boX office numbers? Thats a terrible idea.

I suppose that I did answer my own question. It just doesn't quite sit right with me that a portion of the gross of these movies (recent movies, at that) is, at least to me. what feels like being turned into a non-factor. Going off of that, I just don't want audiences, and perhaps even more so Feige et al., to be misled into believing that these movies aren't making their actual gross. Audiences, and Marvel/Disney are probably savvy enough to make the connection, though.

I think that I might have an idea, but what are your reasons why adding the two would be a terrible idea?

 

[psylockolussus]

I suppose that I did answer my own question. It just doesn't quite sit right with me that a portion of the gross of these movies (recent movies, at that) is, at least to me. what feels like being turned into a non-factor. Going off of that, I just don't want audiences, and perhaps even more so Feige et al., to be misled into believing that these movies aren't making their actual gross. Audiences, and Marvel/Disney are probably savvy enough to make the connection, though.

I think that I might have an idea, but what are your reasons why adding the two would be a terrible idea?

boX office numbers has always been for theaterical release only.... no rent, no vhs sales, no dvd sales, no home media and they should it keep that way even if the boX office numbers are at all time low. And if they do what you are saying, it is just going to mess up boX office tallies.

If you want to use streaming numbers as a measure for success okay, do that. I just don't agree with that suggestion of absorbing streaming numbers to boX office results.

It sounds like you just want to combine both to inflate the boX office numbers.

 

[metaphysician]

The reason box office traditionally didn't include things like streaming, is because those methods of delivery were not traditionally part of a film's "opening". People weren't watching a new movie at home at launch, they were watching it in theaters, which is the only way to watch it during its launch.

The argument for including premium streaming as part of the box office, is that premium streaming *is* part of the film's launch. People are, in fact, seeing the new movie in its initial release via this means, so excluding it produces an inaccurate impression of how the movie's launch is actually doing. The people who pay $30 to see Black Widow at home are just as much participating in the new movie release as the people paying $30 to see Black Widow in a movie theater.

 

[Mysteryman]

The reason box office traditionally didn't include things like streaming, is because those methods of delivery were not traditionally part of a film's "opening". People weren't watching a new movie at home at launch, they were watching it in theaters, which is the only way to watch it during its launch.

The argument for including premium streaming as part of the box office, is that premium streaming *is* part of the film's launch. People are, in fact, seeing the new movie in its initial release via this means, so excluding it produces an inaccurate impression of how the movie's launch is actually doing. The people who pay $30 to see Black Widow at home are just as much participating in the new movie release as the people paying $30 to see Black Widow in a movie theater.

Just the same? Theater owners certainly don't see it that way.

 

[Mysteryman]

According to Box Office Mojo, the current worldwide total for Black Widow is $318,073,697.

 

[TheVileOne]

Streaming isn't box office, sorry. Unless we want to change the rules and terms, it's not. And I won't count it as box office.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I think the question is what are they measuring. Box office numbers technically exist for one purpose - to give a sense of how much money the studio made in order to decide if it was a wise investment (and whether to invest in a sequel). It's sort of morphed into this weird bragging thing, which is why people seem to want to include total viewers (and, therefore, streaming viewers), but that's not what box office numbers are attempting to measure.

 

[metaphysician]

Just the same? Theater owners certainly don't see it that way.

Theater owners may not *want* those people to be part of a movie's launch, but just because they want that to be the case doesn't make it so. "Because I benefit from being the only source of launch viewing" is not the same as "I am the only possible source of launch viewing".

Or basically, I don't find the theater owners' self interest to be a valid reason to lie and pretend that a person watching a movie on day one somehow doesn't exist, because they don't happen to be located within a specific arbitrary building.

 

[metaphysician]

I think the question is what are they measuring. Box office numbers technically exist for one purpose - to give a sense of how much money the studio made in order to decide if it was a wise investment (and whether to invest in a sequel). It's sort of morphed into this weird bragging thing, which is why people seem to want to include total viewers (and, therefore, streaming viewers), but that's not what box office numbers are attempting to measure.

You kind of contradict yourself in the second half. If the purpose of box office is to measure success of investment, than why would you not include. . . that which is contributing to the success of the investment? This isn't a matter of "ratings and subscriptions should count because vague indirect benefit", this is people literally paying money directly to the studio to see this specific movie.

 

[psylockolussus]

Well first, studios rarely report "streaming numbers". I don't think Disney reported the D+ premium access sales of Raya, Mulan and Cruella. We also don't know how much money Disney got from Black widow's premiere access in week 2 and 3. And they aren't obligated to do so.

To make it short: keep boX office tallies to theaterical releases.

While Disney and other studios can make pr releases to report their streaming sales.

 

[InCali]

FWIW I saw it this afternoon and the theater had 4 people counting me. That said there were maybe 20 cars in the parking lot (it’s a Cinemark multiplex) likely including those of the 4 employees I saw, so basically it was discount Tuesday and more or less no one was there for anything.

Casual moviegoing just isn’t a thing again yet.

I had a VERY similar experience on the Tuesday after BW opened. I went to the Tuesday, noon XD showing of BW and there were 2 or 3 other people in an auditorium that seats 330 people. Parking right next to the parking lot exit was a snap. They had one ticket taker at the door and a couple of people working the concessions. I don't normally do this, but I'm not ready to deal with theater food just yet so I had a small sandwich in my jacket pocket along with a beverage. This was at the XD 18 in LA (Howard Hughes on Center).

This and some earlier comments also lead me to my old argument that comparing BO totals for Gone with the Wind to theatrical runs 40, 50, 60, etc. years later doesn't make sense. D+ being a prime example of how the landscape has changed; not to mention COVID.

Where was the theater you went to?

EDIT: I wasn't sure I was going to go right up until I bought my ticket. When I saw that only a few seats were selected and were far away from where I was going to sit, I decided to go for it and I'm an AVID moviegoer.

 

[InCali]

Well first, studios rarely report "streaming numbers". I don't think Disney reported the D+ premium access sales of Raya, Mulan and Cruella. We also don't know how much money Disney got from Black widow's premiere access in week 2 and 3. And they aren't obligated to do so.

To make it short: keep boX office tallies to theaterical releases.

While Disney and other studios can make pr releases to report their streaming sales.

I agree. It does, however, tamp down theatrical numbers and changes the calculus on what is a hit or a bomb. In other words, given the success of D+, Max, and those to come, we may never again see Endgame numbers at the box office. Even if they decide against same day releases, this will lead to shorter BO runs.

 

[Prison Mike]

FWIW I saw it this afternoon and the theater had 4 people counting me. That said there were maybe 20 cars in the parking lot (it’s a Cinemark multiplex) likely including those of the 4 employees I saw, so basically it was discount Tuesday and more or less no one was there for anything.

Casual moviegoing just isn’t a thing again yet.

I still haven’t gone back to the theaters yet. I was thinking about Shang Chi but with the way things are going with Delta…I think I can wait the 45 day window.

 

[Prison Mike]