He-man Sequel Series (Netflix)

[ArmsHeldOut]

Hopefully, we'll get a trailer for the second half fairly soon.

 

[Erik20]

I knew there would be backlash, but not nearly to this extent.

At the end of the day, it’s just a show, and there are many other iterations of the character to enjoy. I mean, Netflix also has that CGI animated show coming out as well! Maybe people who didn’t enjoy this will enjoy that.

It's fine if people didn't like the show, but do you really need to make multiple videos crying about how much you hate it?

But I guess it gives that certain crowd something to do until they can complain about black Superman again.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I am okay with people not liking something and making their voice heard. Freedom of speech is a thing after all and we all view these things differently

That said, being able to voice your opinion doesn't mean I have to agree with or value said opinion. Now, I think there is plenty of thoughtful things people have voiced in discussing this show critically. I am willing to have those discussions. But will I click on a Geeks + Gamers video about the topic? No. Because I don't value the "wokeness" thing as an opinion. All too often, to me it is coded bias against certain people, and that is not a conversation I am ever here for. If you do value the whole something is too "woke" topic, cool. You do you. But I will also do me and fly by those discussions without a moments hesitation. I don't care if something is "woke" or not. I care if the end product was something I enjoyed and if it succeeded on its intended artistic goals. I think the show succeeded, but hey....people's mileage may vary

 

[Frodo]

I knew there would be backlash, but not nearly to this extent.

At the end of the day, it’s just a show, and there are many other iterations of the character to enjoy. I mean, Netflix also has that CGI animated show coming out as well! Maybe people who didn’t enjoy this will enjoy that.

That's why I stated in one of my posts. that people come at this mythology from different standpoints and different point of views.

Alot of people came to MOTU from the 2002 series. Others may have come to it from the 1990s cartoon.

Inevitably, He Man, like alot of other characters , is gonna be interpreted in different ways and at different times.

It's a 40 year old property, so inevitably, there are going to be takes that one set of people may not like and another set of people may be fine with.

It's happened with everyone from Batman to Superman, to Star Wars, to Doctor Who, and so on and so forth.

At the end of they day, with a product this old, you're not going to please everyone all the time with each new iteration.

I pretty much accept that's just how it is .

My guess is aside from the CGI show, the next new He-Man version won't do what this one did , and they'll come at it in a totally new way themselves.

 

[TheWiseGuy487]

It's fine if people didn't like the show, but do you really need to make multiple videos crying about how much you hate it?

But I guess it gives that certain crowd something to do until they can complain about black Superman again.

If these people really cared about the things they complain about, they would continue talking about them. Instead, after a while, people lose interest in watching videos from alt-right YouTube channels talking about that subject, subsequent video’s views decrease because of the algorithm, so the people who are “outraged” look for the new thing to stoke the fire and bring in the views, thus keeping their channel revenue going. Wash, rinse, repeat.

They don’t actually care about the thing they’re discussing or their fans, and their fans don’t really care about them. These channels just use other people’s anger to fill their pockets. If these YouTubers suddenly changed their views and became more woke, their fans would turn on them and pretend they didn’t even like them to begin with. If a bunch of fans suddenly turned and rightfully called out their “master” for saying or doing some racist/sexist acts, they would be called a bunch of mindless sheep falling to the “liberal agenda”.

It’s not a true relationship; it’s convenience.

 

[Frodo]

If these people really cared about the things they complain about, they would continue talking about them. Instead, after a while, people lose interest in watching videos from alt-right YouTube channels talking about that subject, subsequent video’s views decrease because of the algorithm, so the people who are “outraged” look for the new thing to stoke the fire and bring in the views, thus keeping their channel revenue going. Wash, rinse, repeat.

They don’t actually care about the thing they’re discussing or their fans, and their fans don’t really care about them. These channels just use other people’s anger to fill their pockets. If these YouTubers suddenly changed their views and became more woke, their fans would turn on them and pretend they didn’t even like them to begin with. If a bunch of fans suddenly turned and rightfully called out their “master” for saying or doing some racist/sexist acts, they would be called a bunch of mindless sheep falling to the “liberal agenda”.

It’s not a true relationship; it’s convenience.

The alt right stuff is certainly a newer ,disturbing, aspect of fan discourse around all of these cbm, fantasy, scifi properties .

Fans have always feuded and disagreed with each other, and they've always been outraged about creative choices that Hollywood has made in adapting all of these fictional characters.

However, there wasn't a partisan, political, or culture war bent to the discourse at all until the past few years really.

Back in the day, when fans complained about Keaton being cast as Batman, Spiderman's organic webshooters, Batman and Robin as a film etc, there wasn't any political bent to fan complaints or discourse about Raimi being a " SJW" or the SW prequels being " Too Woke!".

Now there's all this culture war stuff which, back in the 80s through the most of the 2010s, stayed in the political realm and didn't crossover into fan discourse.

You add to it, alot of racially charged and sexist language ,which makes genuine debate difficult because it clouds the legitimate conversions.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

The alt right stuff is certainly a newer ,disturbing, aspect of fan discourse around all of these cbm, fantasy, scifi properties .

Fans have always feuded and disagreed with each other, and they've always been outraged about creative choices that Hollywood has made in adapting all of these fictional characters.

However, there wasn't a partisan, political, or culture war bent to the discourse at all until the past few years really.

Back in the day, when fans complained about Keaton being cast as Batman, Spiderman's organic webshooters, Batman and Robin as a film etc, there wasn't any political bent to fan complaints or discourse about Raimi being a " SJW" or the SW prequels being " Too Woke!".

Now there's all this culture war stuff which, back in the 80s through the most of the 2010s, stayed in the political realm and didn't crossover into fan discourse.

You add to it, alot of racially charged and sexist language ,which makes genuine debate difficult because it clouds the legitimate conversions.

Well put! Respect.

 

[TheWiseGuy487]

The alt right stuff is certainly a newer ,disturbing, aspect of fan discourse around all of these cbm, fantasy, scifi properties .

Fans have always feuded and disagreed with each other, and they've always been outraged about creative choices that Hollywood has made in adapting all of these fictional characters.

However, there wasn't a partisan, political, or culture war bent to the discourse at all until the past few years really.

Back in the day, when fans complained about Keaton being cast as Batman, Spiderman's organic webshooters, Batman and Robin as a film etc, there wasn't any political bent to fan complaints or discourse about Raimi being a " SJW" or the SW prequels being " Too Woke!".

Now there's all this culture war stuff which, back in the 80s through the most of the 2010s, stayed in the political realm and didn't crossover into fan discourse.

You add to it, alot of racially charged and sexist language ,which makes genuine debate difficult because it clouds the legitimate conversions.

I guess, if I could use a COVID-19 analogy, the current Alt-Right, anti-SJW movement of outrage culture is the Delta Variant of the original “strain”; more vicious, more toxic, and overall more harmful to those around them. If you don’t have a good defense against it, you’re more likely to succumb to its affects.

 

[Sithborg]

The alt right stuff is certainly a newer ,disturbing, aspect of fan discourse around all of these cbm, fantasy, scifi properties .

Fans have always feuded and disagreed with each other, and they've always been outraged about creative choices that Hollywood has made in adapting all of these fictional characters.

However, there wasn't a partisan, political, or culture war bent to the discourse at all until the past few years really.

Back in the day, when fans complained about Keaton being cast as Batman, Spiderman's organic webshooters, Batman and Robin as a film etc, there wasn't any political bent to fan complaints or discourse about Raimi being a " SJW" or the SW prequels being " Too Woke!".

Now there's all this culture war stuff which, back in the 80s through the most of the 2010s, stayed in the political realm and didn't crossover into fan discourse.

You add to it, alot of racially charged and sexist language ,which makes genuine debate difficult because it clouds the legitimate conversions.

Gamergate started in 2014. To call this a "newer" aspect is ignoring just how visible it has been for a while now. And lest we forget, there was some... discourse over Idris Elba as Heimdall and Shailene Woodley as Mary Jane.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The comments I find most baffling are the morons on YT or Twitter saying this will "ruin" Kevin Smith. Like dude....Kevin Smith is not a Steven Spielberg or something. He is a guy who makes a bunch of low budget movies that are minimal risk/reward and directs TV sometimes for CW. Even if this show is deemed a failure or whatever, the tiny bubble Kevin Smith has occupied in his career will be fine.

But alas....I doubt this message will penetrate the minds of those pushing that narrative

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I definitely think a lot of these platforms should allow the ability for punishments and temporary/permanent restrictions on people who constantly abuse it. If that were to happen, though, a certain section of the internet would scream, “mYfReEsPeEcHREEEEEEEEEEE!!!1!!!111!”, then they would protest and probably cancel their accounts, and these platforms would lose revenue. Which is probably why they don’t do it. They’d sooner appease everyone than lose part of their bottom line.

Yep.

Also Wise, can I ask you what your avatar exactly is? I have been curious for ages.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The comments I find most baffling are the morons on YT or Twitter saying this will "ruin" Kevin Smith. Like dude....Kevin Smith is not a Steven Spielberg or something. He is a guy who makes a bunch of low budget movies that are minimal risk/reward and directs TV sometimes for CW. Even if this show is deemed a failure or whatever, the tiny bubble Kevin Smith has occupied in his career will be fine.

But alas....I doubt this message will penetrate the minds of those pushing that narrative

Honestly, this might be the first Kevin Smith thing I have seen, I actually rather enjoyed.

 

[Sithborg]

I remember liking Dogma and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, though its been a few years, so no idea if they hold up.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I remember liking Dogma and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, though its been a few years, so no idea if they hold up.

The only things I remember about the former is Dushku, Elizabeth and Hamill. I have never seen Dogma.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I like several of his movies. His track record is far from perfect though.

 

[Sithborg]

There is a reason I did not want this series to be as gay as it should have been...

 

[TheVileOne]

I definitely think a lot of these platforms should allow the ability for punishments and temporary/permanent restrictions on people who constantly abuse it. If that were to happen, though, a certain section of the internet would scream, “mYfReEsPeEcHREEEEEEEEEEE!!!1!!!111!”, then they would protest and probably cancel their accounts, and these platforms would lose revenue. Which is probably why they don’t do it. They’d sooner appease everyone than lose part of their bottom line.

Twitter has failed time and time again to crack down on cyber-bullying and they've allowed this problem to grow and fester and now it's out of control. I spit on Twitter and hold them in utter contempt.

 

[TheVileOne]

I knew there would be backlash, but not nearly to this extent.

At the end of the day, it’s just a show, and there are many other iterations of the character to enjoy. I mean, Netflix also has that CGI animated show coming out as well! Maybe people who didn’t enjoy this will enjoy that.

I knew it would be bad once I realized the type of cliffhanger they ended it on. And I knew like clockwork, the usual suspects would make this their latest screeching hill.

I think Netflix is partially to blame for this because I don't think they properly managed expectations to fans who were expecting He-Man to be a big part of the first half of the season. And yes, Kevin Smith did overhype his fandom for this property instead of being honest about his approach. I get what they were going for here, they sort of wanted to use the classic MOTU style and tell a more serious story after a major cataclysm.

In many ways I see parallels with this story and Transformers: The Movie. Mind you, I think Transformers: The Movie is a great story, but it's also about killing off Optimus Prime, not to mention a lot of classic G1 characters getting blasted to make way for a new generation of heroes. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it wasn't a bad story either. Optimus Prime's death was actually a very moving and powerful moment.

But this isn't even the end of the season, so we'll see where they go with it. I have a feeling some of the screeching was all for naught.

Yeah in hindsight, I do think Teela's attitude about being lied to in such a tragic moment is somewhat problematic, but it doesn't break the show for me either. I think the flaw in that scene is that it would've worked more effectively if we didn't suspect Adam was gone at that point. Had Adam still been there and he kept that secret that whole time and he didn't have her confidence before, her reaction would've been easier to digest.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I knew it would be bad once I realized the type of cliffhanger they ended it on. And I knew like clockwork, the usual suspects would make this their latest screeching hill.

I think Netflix is partially to blame for this because I don't think they properly managed expectations to fans who were expecting He-Man to be a big part of the first half of the season. And yes, Kevin Smith did overhype his fandom for this property instead of being honest about his approach. I get what they were going for here, they sort of wanted to use the classic MOTU style and tell a more serious story after a major cataclysm.

In many ways I see parallels with this story and Transformers: The Movie. Mind you, I think Transformers: The Movie is a great story, but it's also about killing off Optimus Prime, not to mention a lot of classic G1 characters getting blasted to make way for a new generation of heroes. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it wasn't a bad story either. Optimus Prime's death was actually a very moving and powerful moment.

But this isn't even the end of the season, so we'll see where they go with it. I have a feeling some of the screeching was all for naught.

Yeah in hindsight, I do think Teela's attitude about being lied to in such a tragic moment is somewhat problematic, but it doesn't break the show for me either. I think the flaw in that scene is that it would've worked more effectively if we didn't suspect Adam was gone at that point. Had Adam still been there and he kept that secret that whole time and he didn't have her confidence before, her reaction would've been easier to digest.

What is wrong with Teela's reaction?

 

[Frodo]

Gamergate started in 2014. To call this a "newer" aspect is ignoring just how visible it has been for a while now. And lest we forget, there was some... discourse over Idris Elba as Heimdall and Shailene Woodley as Mary Jane.

Well, as a black fanboy, yeah , I remember the Elba thing.

There was also the Jimmy Olsen Supergirl thing and The Iris Flash thing among others which you didn't mention.

So no , i'm not ignoring that , with all due respect.

I also remember the Woodley thing. I talked about it here on the boards when it happened.

Racism and sexism has always existed in fandom as it has in society. That's nothing new if that's your point

What I'm referring to is how it's become a much stronger presence in the discourse with in the past few years , i.e. 2016.

As far as Gamergate, i'm not a gamer, so if its been toxic there fair enough, but that's not relevant to the point I was making.

I'm talking about sci fi, cbm and tv, and fantasy .

 

[Sithborg]

I do not think you can remove the influences of gamergate with comicsgate. Gamergate is what convinced Steve Bannon to get into politics.

 

[Frodo]

I do not think you can remove the influences of gamergate with comicsgate. Gamergate is what convinced Steve Bannon to get into politics.

Well , I don't know what "comicsgate " is or what you're referring to.

As far as gamergate goes what convinced Bannon to get into politics, again, not what I'm talking about or what I was referring.

I'm talking broader than just alt right bannonites. I'm talking about alot of fans who aren't with the alt right who have injected racism and sexism into the discourse whether about a Black Superman, Jimmy Olsen, and Iris West to name a few.

There are alot more fans who are just out and out racist and sexist who aren't part of the alt right then there are who are.

The alt rightists feed the racism to be sure, but trust me, its there without them .
It's always been there.

The alt rightists basically give voice to what alot of racist fans already believe but are too afraid to say.

I'm assuming you don't believe that all of the racism and sexism in the fan discourse is just limited to altrightists.

 

[Sithborg]

They are the same people. The only thing that has really changed is just how much of a big business the outrage market has become. And an argument can definitely be made that the origins of what we currently dealing with have its origins in the Great Recession. I don't like calling it a recent development because the monster we are dealing with was mostly created in 2014.

 

[Frodo]

They are the same people. The only thing that has really changed is just how much of a big business the outrage market has become. And an argument can definitely be made that the origins of what we currently dealing with have its origins in the Great Recession. I don't like calling it a recent development because the monster we are dealing with was mostly created in 2014.

If you don't like to call the racist language and discourse recent that's up to you.

But it's quite another thing to claim I'm ignoring something without knowing what I know, and knowing what my experience is.

As far as the racism and sexism in fandom, that existed long before the alt right, but I agree with you about the outrage machine. Even then, the outrage machine has been used in American politics, society, and culture, for decades in election after election in racial code words , dog whistles, bullhorns and tropes.

The alt right is just a repacking of what's always existed .

What I'm saying is that the racism and sexism in fandom today is not limited to the alt right by any means. Not every racist and sexist fan is an alt rightist. The majority of them aren't. racism isn't limited to an idealogy or political party.

If you really think that the only fans who are spewing racism and sexism are tiki torch caring alt rightists ,then I don't know what to tell you .

The monster we're dealing with in terms of racism and sexism in fandom is much older than 2014 and it goes far beyond guys like Steve Bannon.

All guys like Bannon do is give voice to what alot of racists and sexist fans already feel.

 

[TheWiseGuy487]

Yep.

Also Wise, can I ask you what your avatar exactly is? I have been curious for ages.

It’s taken from the last panel of the first of those Nebula fan comics by MegumiEvilKyu. I kind of relate to her character in a lot of ways, and that particular moment from Avengers: Endgame on which that comic is based resonates with me and reminds me of a similar moment in my life when I shared a common interest with someone at my first job back in 2013. I first started coming out of my shell and started becoming less shy and more sociable. Hence, why I decided on that avatar. It’s a reminder of where I started and how far I’ve come as a person.

Still have a ways to go, though.