The General Comic Discussion Thread - Part 2

[super85]

You know, its totally fine to admit you dont know what Bisexual is or what the hell even goes on.
No shame in admiting such stuff.

Also i wouldnt bring up how much or little others read comics when i look at your Tom King post above that tells me you havent read a Tom King book.
Because i might not like Kings Batman, but when i read stuff like this "Also with his Batman run it felt like the dude kept forgetting his previous issues and made the reading also a very inconsistent experience." I very much doubt you have actually read a Tom King Batman.

What a delightful post by you. Thank you for replying.

I have friends and family who are part of the LGBT community, but thanks for being rude.

I read his Batman from the start of Rebirth and about a couple of years of that. And I enjoyed his start, then started to slowly dislike it and dropped it.

I also read "Heroes in Crisis" that I truly disliked. I read the entirety of that miniseries.

I have also given his various other stories a chance, by reading a first couple of issues before dropping them (I think I have mentioned before that I sometimes swap comixology accounts with a friend of mine)

I also read some sort of Superman book he did that was sold in Walmart I think, those I thought were pretty good.

I generally just don't like his writing. With a very few exceptions.

As for reading comic books, I have read them for probably 29-30 years.

 

[super85]

Would this be the "blue-haired twitter crowd" that actually understands what it means to be LGBTQIA+? Why would they be upset with someone who is bisexual, being bisexual exactly?

Your use of the stereotype made it clear by the way.

Gee, I dont know, I generally think Twitter is not for real people and should be ignored. But I have seen several times, tons of people replying on stuff, clearly not having a clue about the characters or the characters history. This coming from every side of the argument. People getting really really angry about something (or pretending to be angry) about either somebody being being bi/gay in comics, OR! for example getting really angry about stories were Joker and Harley are a couple.
General insanity.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And you missed the complete point of that statement and I'll say it one more time this time simplified and then I'm done because this isn't the place for this debate. The point is no man is better than the next man. Regardless of what you do or have done in life we are all the same/equal in God's eye no one's sin is greater than the next persons. The only thing that can save us is the love of Jesus Christ and accepting him as your Lord and savior. Because if you do that even the worst man can make it to heaven once again look at Paul. God's laws and ways has been the same since the beginning of time and will remain that way. There is only one way to heaven it's not through good deeds and works.

I missed nothing. You are trying to hide from your statements and their clear intent. You came in here and decried two characters being bisexual, Made it clear it was a problem for you because you think there is something wrong with being anything other then heterosexual. Using your religion as a shield doesn't change that. The idea that loving someone is a sin because they are the same sex and/or gender as you, is BS and bigotry. That you now have decided to tell me that what you qualify as a "sin" is equal, makes it worse. Because you just confirmed you are comparing being bi, to being murderer. Talking about "the worst man" in conjunction with being bi. Congrats. It's not often we get to call it as it obviously is here, but you have made your bigotry very clear.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

I missed nothing. You are trying to hide from your statements and their clear intent. You came in here and decried two characters being bisexual, Made it clear it was a problem for you because you think there is something wrong with being anything other then heterosexual. Using your religion as a shield doesn't change that. The idea that loving someone is a sin because they are the same sex and/or gender as you, is BS and bigotry. That you now have decided to tell me that what you qualify as a "sin" is equal, makes it worse. Because you just confirmed you are comparing being bi, to being murderer. Talking about "the worst man" in conjunction with being bi. Congrats. It's not often we get to call it as it obviously is here, but you have made your bigotry very clear.

You still don't understand what I am saying but that's alright I have faith that one day you will.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What a delightful post by you. Thank you for replying.

I have friends and family who are part of the LGBT community, but thanks for being rude.

Gee, I dont know, I generally think Twitter is not for real people and should be ignored. But I have seen several times, tons of people replying on stuff, clearly not having a clue about the characters or the characters history. This coming from every side of the argument. People getting really really angry about something (or pretending to be angry) about either somebody being being bi/gay in comics, OR! for example getting really angry about stories were Joker and Harley are a couple.
General insanity.

Ah, the both sidesm mixed with the black friend defense, to try to obfuscate from the obvious complaining about the LGBTQIA+ with your use of stereotypes, while using twitter, which you say "isn't for real people" to complain some more. Also nice of you to make it clear you have very little understanding of the LGBTQIA+ community, or the different parts that make it up.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

.Shazam

Same as before, i really like it and the way it goes.
Its one of those sleeper Series imo, something not many talk about but is really fantastic to me.

The Flash

Boy that was a fun issue...and they did a fantastic job at showing Flashs power, why he is underrated imo.
Super fun.

If I wanted to jump on Shazam and the Flash, what would you would be the best jumping on point?

 

[Mani-Man]

And you missed the complete point of that statement and I'll say it one more time this time simplified and then I'm done because this isn't the place for this debate. The point is no man is better than the next man. Regardless of what you do or have done in life we are all the same/equal in God's eye no one's sin is greater than the next persons. The only thing that can save us is the love of Jesus Christ and accepting him as your Lord and savior. Because if you do that even the worst man can make it to heaven once again look at Paul. God's laws and ways has been the same since the beginning of time and will remain that way. There is only one way to heaven it's not through good deeds and works.

I dont see any need to bring Religious mumbo jumbo into this at all.

What a delightful post by you. Thank you for replying.

I have friends and family who are part of the LGBT community, but thanks for being rude.

I read his Batman from the start of Rebirth and about a couple of years of that. And I enjoyed his start, then started to slowly dislike it and dropped it.

I also read "Heroes in Crisis" that I truly disliked. I read the entirety of that miniseries.

I have also given his various other stories a chance, by reading a first couple of issues before dropping them (I think I have mentioned before that I sometimes swap comixology accounts with a friend of mine)

I also read some sort of Superman book he did that was sold in Walmart I think, those I thought were pretty good.

I generally just don't like his writing. With a very few exceptions.

As for reading comic books, I have read them for probably 29-30 years.

What? You make constant rude posts towards others, in this case the LGBT community and then suddenly cant handle a bit of push back?
You insulted the LGBT community and those who support it, but find that i am Rude? a little bit thin skinned there it seems.

I very much doubt you know anybody from the LGBT community, because then you wouldnt act like you do here, then you would have some empathy and understanding on the matter.
And you will need to forgive me for not trusting you just because you say you read comics, i have no indication to believe that.
And also, reading and understanding them are two different shoes.

If I wanted to jump on Shazam and the Flash, what would you would be the best jumping on point?

In this case for Shazam at Issue 1 since as far as im informed, this only goes for 4 issues.

In general for Shazam, i would say:

Superman and Shazam,The New Beginning,The Power of Shazam,Trials of Shazam,Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam,Shazam!: Origins,Convergence

For Flash its issue 768 when Infinite Frontier started.
In general for Flash, i have no idea...i got into the character over many years and read so much stuff.
But where to start, i couldnt say...for that, others have more knowledge.

 

[Babillygunn]

Nightwing

What is there to say, its so incredible strong written and the way the art flows...really enjoy it.
And of course focusing on Barbara and Dick gives it the extra neat flavor.

The Flash

Boy that was a fun issue...and they did a fantastic job at showing Flashs power, why he is underrated imo.
Super fun.

Oh how I enjoy your weekly reviews! And yes, I loved these two comics this week. I know I am a broken record, but Nightwing, Flash, and Robin have been far and away my favorite titles in Infinite Frontier. And this week was no exception for Nightwing and Flash.

Nightwing was a celebration of his relationship with Barbara and was so well written.
And Flash was a celebration of Wally West. This issue acknowledged not just his extreme power, but also his unshakable kindness and contentment as a human being. I loved it!

Also, I appreciate the passionate debate on this board. I do want to give a plea on behalf of @Calvin Ellis. He has posted on these boards for a long time and has always been one of the most courteous and respectful posters. He’s a joy to rub shoulders with on here. These are tough issues to discuss and there are disagreements that can be hard. As a Christian myself, I know that it is virtually impossible to explain thoughts on issues without sounding hypocritical. Much of the core principles of my faith really can be hard to express in a way that makes sense. There are principles like the notions of right and wrong have a different meaning when you believe that virtually everything we do (even the good stuff) is tainted and wrong. Yet this doesn’t give me a guilt complex, because I feel free of that guilt. Aspects like that are really hard to articulate without feeling like you are doing a really crummy job and sounding like a hypocrite. And let’s face it, there are enough right wing, hate mongering jerks out there spewing hate in the name of God that it doesn’t make it any easier.

But in his years of posting here, Calvin has always been a gracious and respectful poster to everyone as far as I have seen. And I have tried to be as well. I’d simply encourage everyone to show some grace and patience and to give each other the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Mani-Man]

Nightwing was a celebration of his relationship with Barbara and was so well written.
And Flash was a celebration of Wally West. This issue acknowledged not just his extreme power, but also his unshakable kindness and contentment as a human being. I loved it!

I think the reason why Robin, Nightwing, Flash are so well done is because they are written with heart.
They dont do anything super shocking or new or mindblowing, but they are written with heart and care for the characters and who they are.

Its stuff you can show anybody and they will understand what makes people love those characters.
Wally can easily be mistaken due to his attitude, writers can easily fall into the trap and make Wally unlikeable with the way he is.
But here, it felt so easy to get him right.
To write him funny, kind, strong and caring.
To make him powerful but not too overpowered.

It can easy happen to write relationships very one dimensional *cough cough you know who cough cough* but here, its flowing so nice, the dynamic and depth, it focuses on their strength together and how much they care for each other...ah, im a sucker for that stuff.

 

[super85]

Ah, the both sidesm mixed with the black friend defense, to try to obfuscate from the obvious complaining about the LGBTQIA+ with your use of stereotypes, while using twitter, which you say "isn't for real people" to complain some more. Also nice of you to make it clear you have very little understanding of the LGBTQIA+ community, or the different parts that make it up.

You seem really tolerant of people with a different opinion.

Yes I have complained about twitter. I have also complained about bad comics.

I will continue to complain if comics are bad, doesnt matter what the content of them is, if I think they are of low quality.

 

[Babillygunn]

Yeah. Wally is the goofy younger dad who is always telling Dad jokes and embarrassing his kids, but they recognize his character and look up to him. And he’s that guy at work as well. It just so happens that his work is saving the world. This is the character at his best and they are nailing it here.

And Tom Taylor has done a masterful job of making Nightwing basically a Nightwing and Barbara comic. It is soooo good and I hope that there is some payoff to what they’re doing. How bold would it be to marry those two characters?

 

[super85]

I dont see any need to bring Religious mumbo jumbo into this at all.



What? You make constant rude posts towards others, in this case the LGBT community and then suddenly cant handle a bit of push back?
You insulted the LGBT community and those who support it, but find that i am Rude? a little bit thin skinned there it seems.

I very much doubt you know anybody from the LGBT community, because then you wouldnt act like you do here, then you would have some empathy and understanding on the matter.
And you will need to forgive me for not trusting you just because you say you read comics, i have no indication to believe that.
And also, reading and understanding them are two different shoes.

I have made critical comments about twitter-mobs and modern comics. Where have I been rude to actual posters here? you continue with your "not trusting you to say you read " comics etc bs.

Sure, I am thin skinned, seems like you have a problem with people who dont like the same stuff as you. But whatever.

 

[Mani-Man]

I have made critical comments about twitter-mobs and modern comics. Where have I been rude to actual posters here? you continue with your "not trusting you to say you read " comics etc bs.

Sure, I am thin skinned, seems like you have a problem with people who dont like the same stuff as you. But whatever.

What has you making awful coments towards the LGBT community have to do with the people here?
Does it make it less awful because you dont direct it at a certain person? No, its still awful to attack and insult the LGBT community or its supporters regardless.

Well, if you continue sounding like someone who doesnt read comics, of course i continue.
I can tell you that im a millionair...doesnt make it true does it? Or does it?XD

I mean i havent attacked the Twitter lgbt community because two boys kiss in a comic, that was you...and i dont have a problem with Tim or Jon kissing other males...so thin skinned isnt really wrong is it?
Its not me who has a problem with LGBT inclusion.

"seems like you have a problem with people who dont like the same stuff as you" feels very strange coming from someone who has the problem in the first place.
It is a confusing concept when you first come in here upset about LGBT inclusion and all that, but when called out try to make it seem like its the others who have the problem.

 

[Snow Queen]

Gabe Eltaeb Not Coloring Superman: Son Of Kal-El #5 After DC Comments?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Or do.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

In this case for Shazam at Issue 1 since as far as im informed, this only goes for 4 issues.

In general for Shazam, i would say:

Superman and Shazam,The New Beginning,The Power of Shazam,Trials of Shazam,Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam,Shazam!: Origins,Convergence

For Flash its issue 768 when Infinite Frontier started.
In general for Flash, i have no idea...i got into the character over many years and read so much stuff.
But where to start, i couldnt say...for that, others have more knowledge.

Thanks. Yeah, I meant the more recent stuff. I have been getting the Shazam itch after seeing footage for the sequel.

I'm a Wally West guy, so I got off a long time ago. But I like the idea of getting back in, with something recent. Too often when thinking about getting back into comics, I find it daunting. So many issues to catch up on. This helps alot. Thank you.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Gabe Eltaeb Not Coloring Superman: Son Of Kal-El #5 After DC Comments?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Or do.

Rude, SQ. He just has a difference of opinion. What's wrong with that?

 

[super85]

What has you making awful coments towards the LGBT community have to do with the people here?
Does it make it less awful because you dont direct it at a certain person? No, its still awful to attack and insult the LGBT community or its supporters regardless.

Well, if you continue sounding like someone who doesnt read comics, of course i continue.
I can tell you that im a millionair...doesnt make it true does it? Or does it?XD

I mean i havent attacked the Twitter lgbt community because two boys kiss in a comic, that was you...and i dont have a problem with Tim or Jon kissing other males...so thin skinned isnt really wrong is it?
Its not me who has a problem with LGBT inclusion.

"seems like you have a problem with people who dont like the same stuff as you" feels very strange coming from someone who has the problem in the first place.
It is a confusing concept when you first come in here upset about LGBT inclusion and all that, but when called out try to make it seem like its the others who have the problem.

You refered to a guys religion as "religious mumbo jambo" or something right? was that necessary?

What awful comments have I made about the LGBT community? I have made fun about twitter mobs. Those mobs include people of various different opinions, activists of both left and right. And I dont think big companies should look at twitter at all, and I think its a dumpster fire.

And No, I did not make fun of them becouse two guys were kissing, I made fun of how those mobs most likely would act if somebody in the future makes Jon marry a woman or something similar . This is based on previous cases of reading comments on twitter that included comic book previews, reveals of story lines etc.

"thin skin" is a word being tossed around here. Maybe those people engaging on twitter should also have that.

 

[super85]

Rude, SQ. He just has a difference of opinion. What's wrong with that?

The colorist got angry and ranted that they stopped using the slogan "Truth Justice and The American Way". He said that was his reason

" It's not about gay or anything else. What really ****** me off was saying truth, justice, and a better world, **** that it was Truth, Justice, and the American way. My Grandpa almost died in World War II"

Now I am only commenting on what the colorist said. Not what anyone else said that is quoted in that article.

I am commenting on what Gabe Eltaeb said. And when you do a rant like that, its known that you most likely wont continue working for the company you are ranting about.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You refered to a guys religion as "religious mumbo jambo" or something right? was that necessary?

What awful comments have I made about the LGBT community? I have made fun about twitter mobs. Those mobs include people of various different opinions, activists of both left and right. And I dont think big companies should look at twitter at all, and I think its a dumpster fire.

And No, I did not make fun of them becouse two guys were kissing, I made fun of how those mobs most likely would act if somebody in the future makes Jon marry a woman or something similar . This is based on previous cases of reading comments on twitter that included comic book previews, reveals of story lines etc.

"thin skin" is a word being tossed around here. Maybe those people engaging on twitter should also have that.

You are making up a narrative, to complain about LGBTQIA+ content. While doing so, you used a stereotype, showing your intent to complain about the pro-LGBTQIA+ side of the argument. You also proved you had no idea what you were talking about. You then tried to cover it by saying you have LGBT family members, making it worse. Because beyond the fact that isn't verifiable, it has zero to do with this conversation. My guess though is if you had a bi-family member, you would have already told us so. Instead you went with blanket term, which hints at a lack of understand of the bi community.

The colorist got angry and ranted that they stopped using the slogan "Truth Justice and The American Way". He said that was his reason

" It's not about gay or anything else. What really ****** me off was saying truth, justice, and a better world, **** that it was Truth, Justice, and the American way. My Grandpa almost died in World War II"

Now I am only commenting on what the colorist said. Not what anyone else said that is quoted in that article.

I am commenting on what Gabe Eltaeb said. And when you do a rant like that, its known that you most likely wont continue working for the company you are ranting about.

You do realize the act of hanging out with comicsgate folk, doesn't just imply racism, homophobia, transphobia, and misogyny, it confirms it? He's in the business. He knows who these people are. Also his use of "It's not about gay or anything else." Neither Jon or Tim are gay. Another example of someone telling on themselves. He clearly has a problem with it.

But considering you decided to like bigoted posts, maybe you have an opinion divorced from reality when it comes to comicsgate folk.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

You are making up a narrative, to complain about LGBTQIA+ content. While doing so, you used a stereotype, showing your intent to complain about the pro-LGBTQIA+ side of the argument. You also proved you had no idea what you were talking about. You then tried to cover it by saying you have LGBT family members, making it worse. Because beyond the fact that isn't verifiable, it has zero to do with this conversation. My guess though is if you had a bi-family member, you would have already told us so. Instead you went with blanket term, which hints at a lack of understand of the bi community.


You do realize the act of hanging out with comicsgate folk, doesn't just imply racism, homophobia, transphobia, and misogyny, it confirms it? He's in the business. He knows who these people are. Also his use of "It's not about gay or anything else." Neither Jon or Tim are gay. Another example of someone telling on themselves. He clearly has a problem with it.

But considering you decided to like bigoted posts, maybe you have an opinion divorced from reality when it comes to comicsgate folk.

That is a completely uncalled for statement. As I have stated many times my brother is gay and I show no hated towards him or his partner. Nor do I show any hated to my friends that are that way. All because I can't support something doesn't mean I hate you or that I am against you. It just means I can't support this move. However you can call it what you want or just go ahead and block me as I will you. I am done being called something that I am not.

 

[super85]

You are making up a narrative, to complain about LGBTQIA+ content. While doing so, you used a stereotype, showing your intent to complain about the pro-LGBTQIA+ side of the argument. You also proved you had no idea what you were talking about. You then tried to cover it by saying you have LGBT family members, making it worse. Because beyond the fact that isn't verifiable, it has zero to do with this conversation. My guess though is if you had a bi-family member, you would have already told us so. Instead you went with blanket term, which hints at a lack of understand of the bi community.


You do realize the act of hanging out with comicsgate folk, doesn't just imply racism, homophobia, transphobia, and misogyny, it confirms it? He's in the business. He knows who these people are. Also his use of "It's not about gay or anything else." Neither Jon or Tim are gay. Another example of someone telling on themselves. He clearly has a problem with it.

But considering you decided to like bigoted posts, maybe you have an opinion divorced from reality when it comes to comicsgate folk.

I see on what level this discussion is. The constant "you made it worse" etc. Accusations starting with me not reading comics, to me not having family/friends/relatives who are part of the LGBT community.

I dont regret any of my posts. Me commenting on what the colorist said is one of those posts that I dont regret at all. It was a bit typical rant that I expected from him, and its a guy who has implied for a long time that he was quitting DC . I

find it quite amusing with this "divorced from reality" stuff. Possibly becouse I have always been around people who have very different opinions, political and othervise. Also it might be cultural difference, not being as tribal as people in the US often seem to be.

That guy has done coloring on various Indiegogo projects before that people would categorize as CC. Its not like any of this came as a surprise.

Biggest issue here seems to be people getting offended that I think the majority of modern books are quite bad, and that I think twitter is a freakshow. I think both of those thoughts are sane and normal. Something can be really progressive but still not be a very good comic you know. I really like Maggie Sawyer and North Star. I was a huge John Byrne fan as a kid. Those characters were featured in actually
GOOD COMIC BOOKS. But I suppose this will probably also be made to that I just made that up, and I secretly loathe those characters.

Anyway, enjoy your day.

 

[flickchick85]

Two things all should be aware of:
1.) equating being gay or bi with being a murderer will never be acceptable behavior here.
2.) People of all faiths are welcome but DO NOT use this site to preach yours. We had to get rid of the religion threads for a reason.

 

[Flash525]

Superman shouldn't be bisexual. My opinion has nothing to do with sexuality or religion or any of that nonsense. Superman has always been heterosexual, and there's simply no need to change what works.

In practically all comic books, Clark has been with Lois, and occasionally Diana(?) along with a few other characters whilst working at the Daily Planet or before (such as Lana). Not once has he ever been in a relationship with another man because ... he's always been heterosexual.

WB changing his sexuality was presumably done to please a minority within the LGBTQ+ which, frankly, is BS.

If WB needs a LGBTQ+ character, create one. Don't change one.

 

[flickchick85]

Superman shouldn't be bisexual. My opinion has nothing to do with sexuality or religion or any of that nonsense. Superman has always been heterosexual, and there's simply no need to change what works.

In practically all comic books, Clark has been with Lois, and occasionally Diana(?) along with a few other characters whilst working at the Daily Planet or before (such as Lana). Not once has he ever been in a relationship with another man because ... he's always been heterosexual.

WB changing his sexuality was presumably done to please a minority within the LGBTQ+ which, frankly, is BS.

If WB needs a LGBTQ+ character, create one. Don't change one.

FYI, Clark Kent’s not the one being made bisexual. It’s his son Jon, who is a fairly new creation in the comics.

 

[Flash525]

FYI, Clark Kent’s not the one being made bisexual. It’s his son Jon, who is a fairly new creation in the comics.

Whoops..