The Joker Thread - Part 1

Just think the Detective stuff in this film doesnt work, it slows the film down, already said that.
Read some critics on RT who say the same thing, thats it.
 
I loved the detective portions. It was so unique and different from what's come before. Do I want a bit more action? Sure. But I don't want it to be done so that these new elements (which help differentiate it from other movie iterations) are sacrificed.
 
yea i mean we got a lot of action-oriented batman films already and those are cool.

but reeve's take being more detective driven is refreshing due to how it stands apart from all the other batman movies.

and i keep saying this: this makes it more true to a lot of the source material. and i'm grateful we finally got that.

i was thoroughly entertained at the cinema. probably more so than any movie lately.
 
So I know it's pretty much confirmed that this Joker wasn't in a chemical accident, and that he was essentially like this from birth, but the overall design is more or less meant to evoke that concept to some extent, right?

Or am I just crazy? Am I insane? Am I off my rockers?
 
Last edited:
I thought he had until Reeves explained that his appearance was due to a condition he had, like the Elephant Man. Also, he's not "The Joker" yet, but will become The Joker, according to Reeves.
 
I thought he had until Reeves explained that his appearance was due to a condition he had, like the Elephant Man. Also, he's not "The Joker" yet, but will become The Joker, according to Reeves.
I should've clarified in my post that I already knew he had the congenital disease and all that.

It's just that the stuff like the patchy hair made me wonder if they were knowingly kinda trying to evoke the whole "chemical burns" concept
 
I should've clarified in my post that I already knew he had the congenital disease and all that.

It's just that the stuff like the patchy hair made me wonder if they were knowingly kinda trying to evoke the whole "chemical burns" concept

Probably played a part in his design. Honestly I was hoping we'd get the classic Red Hood / Ace Chemicals origin for Joker in a flashback to their first encounter. I'm sure Reeves would make it look stunning. In any case, I'm really curious to know how these two actually met.
 
Probably played a part in his design. Honestly I was hoping we'd get the classic Red Hood / Ace Chemicals origin for Joker in a flashback to their first encounter. I'm sure Reeves would make it look stunning. In any case, I'm really curious to know how these two actually met.
The thing about that that keeps getting me is just the context of this whole design i.e. being written around 2017/2018-ish with a kneejerky reaction to Leto's version, hence the birth defect origin and overall grotesqueness.

However I certainly don't begrudge anyone wanting the ACE Chemicals origin.

With all that being said, I hope this doesn't prevent Reeves from making his Joker at least a little colorful and stylish
 
I definitely think there's still room for the acid bath to be the reason for the scarred mangled skin and patchy hair, where the smile itself is the result of the congenital condition. Making him the leader if the red hood hang gets extra points.
 
I definitely think there's still room for the acid bath to be the reason for the scarred mangled skin and patchy hair, where the smile itself is the result of the congenital condition. Making him the leader if the red hood hang gets extra points.
I don't think the acid bath did all that. As our pal @C Prometheus puts it:
He didn't fall into a vat of chemicals, guys. :funny:

You can tell this Joker dyed his hair (somehow), because the roots of his hair and what faint traces we can see of his eyebrows seem to be some shade of dirty blonde or light brown hair. Just look at this spiffy new gif that @Kane52630 made for us!

IXNXzZG.gif


Everything else can easily be chalked to being a part of whatever the heck Joker's congenital disease is. Reeves is focusing on the smile in his quotes, but between him repeatedly ruling out the "He fell in a vat of acid" origin and referring back to The Elephant Man multiple times, it's clear that deformity extended to the rest of his appearance (save for his green hair).

The overt visual inspiration of John Hurt's prosthetic work in The Elephant Man (and of course the real life Joseph Merrick and other individuals suffering from similar congenital diseases) is very apparent if you actually stop and look up what Reeves is namedropping. :funny:



On an unrelated note, go watch David Lynch's The Elephant Man if you've never seen it before. It's a beautiful film and I love that Reeves is a fan of Lynch's work. :cwink:

P.S. If I had to guess, the reason his fingers are all mangled and bloodied is that he probably has some sort of chronic itching as part of the disease. Might even be why a huge chunk of the top of his head is balding.
 
Yeah it’s definitely not a acid bath. Evil Elephant Man was the idea so that’s all we’re getting. Leto was basically Nicholson 2.0 (but just taken into jabroni territory). Phoenix was like Ledger, minus the scars. It’s weird how the Joker’s who have been in Batman movies are the only ones who have permanent smiles. Chemicals, knife wound, born with a disease. I’m sure the next version will be less original and revert back to the Ace Chemicals origin.

Y’know, if Joker has a significant role in the Arkham show, I hope it comes out before that Phoenix Joker sequel. Because both might be tackling a One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest structure. Last I heard there wasn’t even a Joker 2 being planned but who knows..

One way to do it would be the anthology route with a psychiatrist in the lead. @AndyTrevino suggested using “Killer Smile” for inspiration which sounds about right. But I don’t think we’re getting that at all. I only see Joker in later episodes. Our lead protagonist would be a new patient checking into Arkham (he/she probably shouldn’t even be in there). We experience this creepy institution and the rogues gallery through their eyes. The main antagonist would be a character from the comics who’s the perfect representation of the abuse that goes on in Arkham (and other hospitals). We then get to uncover more of the haunting history of the Asylum. Show ends with the lead character not being able to escape. A tragic downfall. While Joker possibly uses them to escape himself.
 
We were several on the board trying to connect Reeves' visual references to old movies and expecting his Joker to evoke "The Man Who Laughs". While the director apparently kept the concept of a disease causing a permanent smile, it's pretty clear that he's going for something else for the overall look.
If a certain vision of Cobain served as a model for Batman, to stay in the sphere of musical artists, the more I think about this new Joker, the more I can see him having some of Keith Flint spirit.


41eDNaIsjoL._AC_.jpg



The patched hair, dyed green in a "punk" way, the quite British face (yeah, I know how that sounds)... The artist has actually had a pretty flamboyant wardrobe in his career. I'm not saying it's accurate or perfectly suited to the comic character, but I could see Reeves taking some inspiration from it. Just like Nolan used a bit of Johnny Rotten for his Joker (which isn't a too distant reference actually).
 
Last edited:
We were several on the board trying to connect Reeves' visual references to old movies and expecting his Joker to evoke "The Man Who Laughs". While the director apparently kept the concept of a disease causing a permanent smile, it's pretty clear that he's going for something else for the overall look.
If a certain vision of Cobain served as a model for Batman, to stay in the sphere of musical artists, the more I think about this new Joker, the more I can see him having some of Keith Flint spirit.


41eDNaIsjoL._AC_.jpg



The patched hair, dyed green in a "punk" way, the quite British face (yeah, I know how that sounds)... The artist has actually had a pretty flamboyant wardrobe in his career. I'm not saying it's accurate or perfectly suited to the comic character, but I could see Reeves taking some inspiration from it. Just like Nolan used a bit of Johnny Rotten for his Joker (which isn't a too distant reference actually).

May he rest in peace.
 
Why does “fast = better”? Never understood that. WHY doesn’t it work? Does it work with the plot & investigation? Surely, there must be more of a reason outside of “it slows the film down”? Maybe it wasn’t the intention to speed things up.

As a fan of 2001, Blade Runner, The Godfather etc., the pace didn't seem that slow to me. But certainly, someone used to the usual summer blockbuster might think otherwise.

With all that being said, I hope this doesn't prevent Reeves from making his Joker at least a little colorful and stylish

The dirty, disheveled look worked well for Ledger and that interpretation. But for me, a big part of the Joker's creepiness is how well he dressed, at least in the 80s-90s comics I grew up on. I prefer the Joker to be almost androgynous, just adds to his mystery, and also probably born out of Frank Miller's version in DKR, obviously from that late 80s time period I'm talking about.

It's that dichotomy between the maniac clown visage and his theatrical, flamboyant outfits that always felt right to me. It's part of the reason Nicholson still holds a special place in my heart, outside of his weight and stature, he displayed that part of the Joker perfectly.
 
Considering the stated Elephant Man inspiration, it's bemusing to me that some fans are automatically dismissing the idea of this Joker wearing a sharp looking suit. A classic aspect of The Elephant Man is that surrealistically 'Lynchian' image of the horribly deformed Merrick still being dressed to the nines in informal wear. The juxtaposition of seeing this horribly deformed, vaguely animalistic looking man being decked out in a classy looking suit, a symbol of modern, 'civilised society', is common to both the David Lynch portrayal of Joseph Merrick, and the Joker. Having said all that, I don't see him wearing a suit. :dry:
 
Last edited:
As a fan of 2001, Blade Runner, The Godfather etc., the pace didn't seem that slow to me. But certainly, someone used to the usual summer blockbuster might think otherwise.



The dirty, disheveled look worked well for Ledger and that interpretation. But for me, a big part of the Joker's creepiness is how well he dressed, at least in the 80s-90s comics I grew up on. I prefer the Joker to be almost androgynous, just adds to his mystery, and also probably born out of Frank Miller's version in DKR, obviously from that late 80s time period I'm talking about.

It's that dichotomy between the maniac clown visage and his theatrical, flamboyant outfits that always felt right to me. It's part of the reason Nicholson still holds a special place in my heart, outside of his weight and stature, he displayed that part of the Joker perfectly.
I feel like Barry can still pull off that slightly androgynous vibe with his Joker, especially since there's not much hair on him at all lmfao, even less than I anticipated.
 
Considering the stated Elephant Man inspiration, it's bemusing to me that some fans are automatically dismissing the idea of this Joker wearing a sharp looking suit. A classic aspect of The Elephant Man is that surrealistically 'Lynchian' image of the horribly deformed Merrick still being dressed to the nines in informal wear. The juxtaposition of seeing this horribly deformed, vaguely animalistic looking man being decked out in a classy looking suit, a symbol of modern, 'civilised society', is common to both the David Lynch portrayal of Joseph Merrick, and the Joker. Having said all that, I don't see him wearing a suit. :dry:

I totally agree with what you're saying here. Even though I cited Keith Flint as a possible influence mainly for this Joker's physique, when it comes to his clothes, I think it would be much more interesting to have him wear something a bit classy. And I say that even though I really liked the clothes suggested by the fan art on the previous pages (like the revisited straitjacket).
It's not about being classic for the sake of comics accuracy, but with such a grotesque Joker, it's less expected to finally have something more refined. As you said, having a clear contrast between his monstrosity, both outside and inside, and the way he dresses is just way more interesting, visually and conceptually.

Just a little remark I wanted to make which is on topic : if I'm all for reinterpretation, with the Joker, I think there's always a risk of going too far into the "clown monster" territory and ending up with something as uninspired as countless of other killer clowns, still visually speaking. In my eyes, the mid-2000s cartoon "The Batman" felt a bit in that trap but admittedly, I haven't seen much of that series and the writing could have countered that choice. Anyway, just an observation, I'm not at all worried about what's in store for us here.

As for your last sentence, I wouldn't be so adamant. I think it's still possible to see the Kheogan version of the character put on a suit later on. Reeves said he's not the Joker yet, but he's already got the smile, the green hair and that playful relationship with Batman... Really, the only thing missing is the costume ahah. We'll see !
 
Last edited:
That’s the thing with this interpretation. He hasn’t yet embraced “the clown prince of crime”. He has the green hair. He has the strange smile. So what would be missing to complete the transformation? The clown element. The wardrobe. I’m sure there will be a lightbulb that goes off while he’s in Arkham, and his whole style will be born out of that. I feel like if he was already on the streets as the Joker, the convenient costume you see from the Bermejo art would fit like a glove. But here, it seems like he’s about to become the Joker, so you need a dramatic entrance. Just throwing a plain trench coat over some clothes wouldn’t really feel that different now would it? Seems to me like he would actually get dressed up fancy , so the audience has that “ah-hah! Now THERE’S the Joker!” He wasn’t quite there yet before...but NOW it’s official”. It’s like with Catwoman. What’s stopping Selina from already being the fully formed Catwoman from the comics? I’d say it’s the cowl and maybe a slightly different design for the suit she wears. That mask will change and they’ll make sure it pops out when she returns to Gotham City.
 
[A man] can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely.

A... Joker, Mr. Unnamed Arkham Prisoner.
 
with what we've seen of the joker so far from the deleted scene, i have no worries on what reeves has up his sleeve.

i'm sure it will be different from previous incarnations and, like the movie itself, a refreshing take.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"