Choose a Jim; Jeffery Wright vs Gary Oldman

[Frodo]

I joined in 2002 at age 45. I happily watched West's BATMAN on it's first run and loved it then and now.

I started watching it post Batman 89 when they began to rerun it on the family channel in the late 80s and early 90s.

It wasn't until 1991 that I found out that there was a 66 Movie. Lol.

I actually saw Julia Newmar at our local shopping mall after Batman 89 came out.

I think she was there to promote something, and she took questions from people in the crowd.
She was pretty cool.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I remember back in the old days when I was watching Batman the Movie for the first time and all my innocent self thought was; Batman, awesome. Back then I had no access to debates and squabbles of "This version sucks, cause new version is different".


I love what's become of this thread at this point, thanks for the fun memory conversations.

 

[BatLobster]

Hey man, don't apologise. I've always loved our debates. It's rare that I ever discussed something as in depth as we've gotten, with somebody with a differing opinion, and still have positive thoughts of that person (usually because it's over something more important than Batman, admittedly). But I always have with you, my dude. You're good

Well that"s sweet of ya to say, thanks man. I think they've been worthwhile discussions so I don't 'regret' them, and you always keep it very civil and relaxed yourself. I think what I mean is like...if I was having a conversation with another fan in person and it was clear they were younger than me, I would approach the convo a bit differently. Because just speaking personally, for me, my early 20s were just an extremely formative time in my life. You're kind of out there facing the world for the first time, and it can feel vast and overwhelming (not that this feeling ever fully goes away, lol). For me, that operatic quality of Bruce Wayne/Batman's story as depicted in the Nolan films through that lens of tangible 'realism' for the first time struck a really powerful chord with me and it just became extremely easy for me to completely emotionally invest at that specific point in my life. From a perspective beyond just being a Batman fan my whole life, it just hit on a completely different level for me where it was like...this is legit food for the soul.

I get the sense based on the way you've talked about TB, that this movie is hitting you on that kind of intensely personal level, and what I'm saying is "I've been there". It's not where I am now with the character, but I completely relate to being at that point in my life, getting a great Batman movie and having it be kind of like a life-changing experience. A big part of my experience with The Batman has been the realization and acceptance that I'm not at that place anymore, being okay with that, and learning to appreciate it for what it is.

It’s never too late bruh lol. I’m turning 34 in August and Pattinson is my Batman! Rob was my age when he played Bruce. So it feels even more personal hah.

Let me tell you my friend. I was 33 at the start of the pandemic two years ago. Those two years did quite a number on me lol. Suddenly being closer to 40 than 30 and seeing a few greys start to crop up hit home for me in a big way that I'm still processing.

Now, I realize that sounds super dramatic-- let me just say: I'm fine, it's not all bad, I'm overall very happy with my life-- but it has been a clarifying experience for my priorities and stuff. As bittersweet as it is to say, a new Batman movie just isn't moving the needle for me as much these days. All my friends are on the same page, so I don't think it's uncommon. Everyone in my circle enjoyed the movie and had nice things to say about it, but it didn't really spark any lasting conversations for the most part. I just have to be honest with myself about where I'm at in my fandom journey.

I think the intensely subjective POV-driven approach to the movie may be where some of it stems from for me too. I just don't feel the need to be put in Batman's point of view to such an intense degree like that, especially when the character is being portrayed in such a gloomy sort of way. I can't shake the sense that this version feels more like a doomed protagonist than previous versions have. I don't derive much value out of that, personally. It ironically ends up connecting me to it less, not more. It's not an experience I see myself being drawn to for many repeat viewings over time, at the very least. I suspect a lot of my enjoyment of the character over the years has stemmed from that more aspirational quality to Batman. Of course he's extremely flawed, he's got serious issues, but there's something bigger going on in the Batman mythos IMO. He's a reminder of what we're capable of when we really push ourselves to the limit. There's this aspect of, "F*** what you think, I can get there if I really push myself and believe in myself". This radically hopeful attitude. Not to literally be a vigilante obviously lol, but for whatever it is you're trying to achieve. When you're a kid it's more about literally dressing up or playing with your action figures and imagining you're Batman, but it evolves as you grow and you apply it to your life in other ways as you encounter more adult-themed depictions. The channeling of the negative energy into positive energy is a big piece of it for me. I know that's where this movie ultimately lands with it, but it just felt like it was telling me what I already know. For me, the experience of finally seeing Bruce played by an actor my own age just ultimately makes it less mythological to me. I end up feeling like I'm ahead of the character. And I think ultimately I just prefer the larger than life character in my head canon, from my memories, to what I'm being presented with in this film. None of this is a knock on Rob's performance, or Reeves' direction. He was phenomenal in the role, from a technical acting standpoint. The movie masterfully crafted from frame to frame, even if I have a few narrative issues with it. This is just about how I processed it on a personal level.

The emphasis on the "symbol" of it all in TDKT is a big part of why I think those movies resonate with me stronger, beyond just how much I connected with it at that point in time. That really scratches my itch with what I think the character is all about, at least the value that I derive out of it on a personal/emotional level beyond just being a fan of the world and enjoying it on a pop culture nerd level.

You got the right idea though. You gotta stay young at heart, and I'm finding other ways to do that currently. I'm legit happy for you and the others here in our general age bracket that has had their fandom renewed and reinvigorated by the movie-- that's awesome. I'm not saying the journey inevitably goes this way for all of us, but that's just where I happen to be at with it at this moment in time. In a way, I'm enjoying shifting into being a bit more of a 'casual' fan. With this adjusted mindset, I don't have to put all this intense expectation/hype onto it, I can just go in a bit more relaxed and take it for what it is. I don't have to feel triggered when someone bashes it. I'm able to just take it all with a much healthier (for me) grain of salt.

Didn't mean for this to turn into a personal rant, but hopefully this clarifies where I'm coming from when I talk like a jaded old fart!

 

[Gothamsknight]

Yeah, I think I've reached a point with Batman movies where everything I've wanted to see I've seen. Not just that, but what I've wanted to see, knowing at the time or not, happened a long time ago. The Batman was a great movie, but it's something that I feel like I'm less interested in revisiting now than I had previous thought I would be. What it offers is something great, but it's also something that doesn't scratch the itch for me like the Nolan films did. I guess this is why they say Nostalgia is so powerful haha, but there's truth to that. I don't really see what this version of the character can do that will move me as emotionally as any of Nolan films did, or even non Batman comic book movies too. It's not that I don't think the movie is great, because I do, but the fact that it kind of left me so quickly pretty much encapsulates my feelings overall. This character thrives on interpretations, but with each new interpretation comes a new generation as well. Each new generation has a version that impacts them personally and changes the way they view certain things. The Nolan movies did that for me. Whether it was the films themselves, or what was going on at the time too. My dad, who unfortunately passed away this past tuesday morning, was a big fan of TDK, and i remember him being skeptical of Ledger before seeing the movie and then being blown away by his performance. All of these things just impacted me so much that it's pretty much impossible for any new version to do that for me. Plus, I just think that particular version was more of what I was looking for out of a Batman story. All the themes of vengeance not being the answer, and becoming a symbol of hope was covered in under the first hour of Batman Begins. 3 hours into The Batman, it's telling us those same things which is, again, great for newer fans today, but I've seen that already and that's going to play a part in how I feel.

I think this is why it's important to sometimes separate your personal feelings to judge the movie on it's own. It is a great movie, and perhaps it's my fault for expecting it to hit those same beats for me.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, I think I've reached a point with Batman movies where everything I've wanted to see I've seen. Not just that, but what I've wanted to see, knowing at the time or not, happened a long time ago. The Batman was a great movie, but it's something that I feel like I'm less interested in revisiting now than I had previous thought I would be. What it offers is something great, but it's also something that doesn't scratch the itch for me like the Nolan films did. I guess this is why they say Nostalgia is so powerful haha, but there's truth to that. I don't really see what this version of the character can do that will move me as emotionally as any of Nolan films did, or even non Batman comic book movies too. It's not that I don't think the movie is great, because I do, but the fact that it kind of left me so quickly pretty much encapsulates my feelings overall. This character thrives on interpretations, but with each new interpretation comes a new generation as well. Each new generation has a version that impacts them personally and changes the way they view certain things. The Nolan movies did that for me. Whether it was the films themselves, or what was going on at the time too. My dad, who unfortunately passed away this past tuesday morning, was a big fan of TDK, and i remember him being skeptical of Ledger before seeing the movie and then being blown away by his performance. All of these things just impacted me so much that it's pretty much impossible for any new version to do that for me. Plus, I just think that particular version was more of what I was looking for out of a Batman story. All the themes of vengeance not being the answer, and becoming a symbol of hope was covered in under the first hour of Batman Begins. 3 hours into The Batman, it's telling us those same things which is, again, great for newer fans today, but I've seen that already and that's going to play a part in how I feel.

I think this is why it's important to sometimes separate you're personal feelings to judge the movie on it's own. It is a great movie, and perhaps it's my fault for expecting it to hit those same beats for me.

My goodness, so sorry to hear that man. Here if you ever need someone to talk to.

 

[Lautox]

I was 4

I was 2....I think I'm the forum's baby brother haha

 

[DeadlyWest]

I was 2....I think I'm the forum's baby brother haha

Oh God, does that make me the middle child?

 

[Filmfreak]

Yeah, I think I've reached a point with Batman movies where everything I've wanted to see I've seen. Not just that, but what I've wanted to see, knowing at the time or not, happened a long time ago. The Batman was a great movie, but it's something that I feel like I'm less interested in revisiting now than I had previous thought I would be. What it offers is something great, but it's also something that doesn't scratch the itch for me like the Nolan films did. I guess this is why they say Nostalgia is so powerful haha, but there's truth to that. I don't really see what this version of the character can do that will move me as emotionally as any of Nolan films did, or even non Batman comic book movies too. It's not that I don't think the movie is great, because I do, but the fact that it kind of left me so quickly pretty much encapsulates my feelings overall. This character thrives on interpretations, but with each new interpretation comes a new generation as well. Each new generation has a version that impacts them personally and changes the way they view certain things. The Nolan movies did that for me. Whether it was the films themselves, or what was going on at the time too. My dad, who unfortunately passed away this past tuesday morning, was a big fan of TDK, and i remember him being skeptical of Ledger before seeing the movie and then being blown away by his performance. All of these things just impacted me so much that it's pretty much impossible for any new version to do that for me. Plus, I just think that particular version was more of what I was looking for out of a Batman story. All the themes of vengeance not being the answer, and becoming a symbol of hope was covered in under the first hour of Batman Begins. 3 hours into The Batman, it's telling us those same things which is, again, great for newer fans today, but I've seen that already and that's going to play a part in how I feel.

I think this is why it's important to sometimes separate you're personal feelings to judge the movie on it's own. It is a great movie, and perhaps it's my fault for expecting it to hit those same beats for me.

Condolences.

These are my exact thoughts for the movies as well.

 

[DeadlyWest]

Yeah, I think I've reached a point with Batman movies where everything I've wanted to see I've seen. Not just that, but what I've wanted to see, knowing at the time or not, happened a long time ago. The Batman was a great movie, but it's something that I feel like I'm less interested in revisiting now than I had previous thought I would be. What it offers is something great, but it's also something that doesn't scratch the itch for me like the Nolan films did. I guess this is why they say Nostalgia is so powerful haha, but there's truth to that. I don't really see what this version of the character can do that will move me as emotionally as any of Nolan films did, or even non Batman comic book movies too. It's not that I don't think the movie is great, because I do, but the fact that it kind of left me so quickly pretty much encapsulates my feelings overall. This character thrives on interpretations, but with each new interpretation comes a new generation as well. Each new generation has a version that impacts them personally and changes the way they view certain things. The Nolan movies did that for me. Whether it was the films themselves, or what was going on at the time too. My dad, who unfortunately passed away this past tuesday morning, was a big fan of TDK, and i remember him being skeptical of Ledger before seeing the movie and then being blown away by his performance. All of these things just impacted me so much that it's pretty much impossible for any new version to do that for me. Plus, I just think that particular version was more of what I was looking for out of a Batman story. All the themes of vengeance not being the answer, and becoming a symbol of hope was covered in under the first hour of Batman Begins. 3 hours into The Batman, it's telling us those same things which is, again, great for newer fans today, but I've seen that already and that's going to play a part in how I feel.

I think this is why it's important to sometimes separate your personal feelings to judge the movie on it's own. It is a great movie, and perhaps it's my fault for expecting it to hit those same beats for me.

I'm sure you've gotten this a lot, but I'm so sorry, man.

 

[JackWhite]

Yeah, I think I've reached a point with Batman movies where everything I've wanted to see I've seen. Not just that, but what I've wanted to see, knowing at the time or not, happened a long time ago. The Batman was a great movie, but it's something that I feel like I'm less interested in revisiting now than I had previous thought I would be. What it offers is something great, but it's also something that doesn't scratch the itch for me like the Nolan films did. I guess this is why they say Nostalgia is so powerful haha, but there's truth to that. I don't really see what this version of the character can do that will move me as emotionally as any of Nolan films did, or even non Batman comic book movies too. It's not that I don't think the movie is great, because I do, but the fact that it kind of left me so quickly pretty much encapsulates my feelings overall. This character thrives on interpretations, but with each new interpretation comes a new generation as well. Each new generation has a version that impacts them personally and changes the way they view certain things. The Nolan movies did that for me. Whether it was the films themselves, or what was going on at the time too. My dad, who unfortunately passed away this past tuesday morning, was a big fan of TDK, and i remember him being skeptical of Ledger before seeing the movie and then being blown away by his performance. All of these things just impacted me so much that it's pretty much impossible for any new version to do that for me. Plus, I just think that particular version was more of what I was looking for out of a Batman story. All the themes of vengeance not being the answer, and becoming a symbol of hope was covered in under the first hour of Batman Begins. 3 hours into The Batman, it's telling us those same things which is, again, great for newer fans today, but I've seen that already and that's going to play a part in how I feel.

I think this is why it's important to sometimes separate your personal feelings to judge the movie on it's own. It is a great movie, and perhaps it's my fault for expecting it to hit those same beats for me.

Damn, my heart goes out to you, dude. Deepest condolences.

 

[Gothamsknight]

My goodness, so sorry to hear that man. Here if you ever need someone to talk to.

Condolences.

These are my exact thoughts for the movies as well.

I'm sure you've gotten this a lot, but I'm so sorry, man.

Damn, my heart goes out to you, dude. Deepest condolences.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate it more than you know. Been a crazy and surreal week and it doesn't help that I was the one to find him. This place serves as a helpful distraction.

 

[shauner111]

Well that"s sweet of ya to say, thanks man. I think they've been worthwhile discussions so I don't 'regret' them, and you always keep it very civil and relaxed yourself. I think what I mean is like...if I was having a conversation with another fan in person and it was clear they were younger than me, I would approach the convo a bit differently. Because just speaking personally, for me, my early 20s were just an extremely formative time in my life. You're kind of out there facing the world for the first time, and it can feel vast and overwhelming (not that this feeling ever fully goes away, lol). For me, that operatic quality of Bruce Wayne/Batman's story as depicted in the Nolan films through that lens of tangible 'realism' for the first time struck a really powerful chord with me and it just became extremely easy for me to completely emotionally invest at that specific point in my life. From a perspective beyond just being a Batman fan my whole life, it just hit on a completely different level for me where it was like...this is legit food for the soul.

I get the sense based on the way you've talked about TB, that this movie is hitting you on that kind of intensely personal level, and what I'm saying is "I've been there". It's not where I am now with the character, but I completely relate to being at that point in my life, getting a great Batman movie and having it be kind of like a life-changing experience. A big part of my experience with The Batman has been the realization and acceptance that I'm not at that place anymore, being okay with that, and learning to appreciate it for what it is.



Let me tell you my friend. I was 33 at the start of the pandemic two years ago. Those two years did quite a number on me lol. Suddenly being closer to 40 than 30 and seeing a few greys start to crop up hit home for me in a big way that I'm still processing.

Now, I realize that sounds super dramatic-- let me just say: I'm fine, it's not all bad, I'm overall very happy with my life-- but it has been a clarifying experience for my priorities and stuff. As bittersweet as it is to say, a new Batman movie just isn't moving the needle for me as much these days. All my friends are on the same page, so I don't think it's uncommon. Everyone in my circle enjoyed the movie and had nice things to say about it, but it didn't really spark any lasting conversations for the most part. I just have to be honest with myself about where I'm at in my fandom journey.

I think the intensely subjective POV-driven approach to the movie may be where some of it stems from for me too. I just don't feel the need to be put in Batman's point of view to such an intense degree like that, especially when the character is being portrayed in such a gloomy sort of way. I can't shake the sense that this version feels more like a doomed protagonist than previous versions have. I don't derive much value out of that, personally. It ironically ends up connecting me to it less, not more. It's not an experience I see myself being drawn to for many repeat viewings over time, at the very least. I suspect a lot of my enjoyment of the character over the years has stemmed from that more aspirational quality to Batman. Of course he's extremely flawed, he's got serious issues, but there's something bigger going on in the Batman mythos IMO. He's a reminder of what we're capable of when we really push ourselves to the limit. There's this aspect of, "F*** what you think, I can get there if I really push myself and believe in myself". This radically hopeful attitude. Not to literally be a vigilante obviously lol, but for whatever it is you're trying to achieve. When you're a kid it's more about literally dressing up or playing with your action figures and imagining you're Batman, but it evolves as you grow and you apply it to your life in other ways as you encounter more adult-themed depictions. The channeling of the negative energy into positive energy is a big piece of it for me. I know that's where this movie ultimately lands with it, but it just felt like it was telling me what I already know. For me, the experience of finally seeing Bruce played by an actor my own age just ultimately makes it less mythological to me. I end up feeling like I'm ahead of the character. And I think ultimately I just prefer the larger than life character in my head canon, from my memories, to what I'm being presented with in this film. None of this is a knock on Rob's performance, or Reeves' direction. He was phenomenal in the role, from a technical acting standpoint. The movie masterfully crafted from frame to frame, even if I have a few narrative issues with it. This is just about how I processed it on a personal level.

The emphasis on the "symbol" of it all in TDKT is a big part of why I think those movies resonate with me stronger, beyond just how much I connected with it at that point in time. That really scratches my itch with what I think the character is all about, at least the value that I derive out of it on a personal/emotional level beyond just being a fan of the world and enjoying it on a pop culture nerd level.

You got the right idea though. You gotta stay young at heart, and I'm finding other ways to do that currently. I'm legit happy for you and the others here in our general age bracket that has had their fandom renewed and reinvigorated by the movie-- that's awesome. I'm not saying the journey inevitably goes this way for all of us, but that's just where I happen to be at with it at this moment in time. In a way, I'm enjoying shifting into being a bit more of a 'casual' fan. With this adjusted mindset, I don't have to put all this intense expectation/hype onto it, I can just go in a bit more relaxed and take it for what it is. I don't have to feel triggered when someone bashes it. I'm able to just take it all with a much healthier (for me) grain of salt.

Didn't mean for this to turn into a personal rant, but hopefully this clarifies where I'm coming from when I talk like a jaded old fart!

I can respect all of that. I understand what you’re saying, even though I probably have the polar opposite mindset when it comes to Batman.

See, I’ve always been more fascinated with the psychology of each character as well as the horror elements from the Gotham mythology rather than the “symbol” (TDK trilogy nails that. No argument there. If I need that itch scratched, I’ll know where to go). But that ‘bigger picture’ is not really something that interests me too much. Id rather follow this character through his eyes than watch the story unfold through the eyes of less interesting side characters. We’ve seen that done many times and will continue to post-Reeves. It’s refreshing to get away from that.

I think it also has to do with me being in love with film more than comics. Always been that way. I’m a movie guy not a comic book guy. As you might know, I’ve been a fan of Batman since I was about 2 or 3 years old (thank you Keaton & Conroy). 30 years easy. But I only read my first comic when I was 10. Knightfall to be exact. And then I didn’t touch a comic book for close to 10 years, around the time TDK came out. I started off slow back then by cherry picking graphic novels that intrigued me, and learned a lot from discussions on the hype, rewatching the movies & animated series and researching online when i had free time. Reading comics only ramped up when Nolan’s trilogy was over and the Snyder flicks weren’t really cutting it. That’s when i fell in love with the mythology more than ever. You can call me a late bloomer lol even though it’s such a bizarre thing to say to a 30 year fanboy! I always land on the weird character driven stories instead of the big event stories from the lore so MAYBE that’s where you and I differ? You might have to correct me on that one. Also i think it’s important to point out one other thing...I don’t really watch many action movies. Not much of a “blockbuster” fan. I’m SUUUUUPER picky with action, war & musicals. So when a Batman movie is made in the mold of a atmospheric, POV driven murder mystery...I’m naturally going to jump for joy. That’s the ticket to excitement for me because it exists in a film genre that I feel closer to on a personal level. The Batman scratches that itch, and it’s the reason why i can see myself rewatching it over and over because I love hang out movies. You guys talk about this being so plot driven, and it is. But it also has a chill, hang out in Gotham City, follow the tortured protagonist around town vibe. Totally my bag. Most of my favourite movies right there.

You’re also right about the doomed protagonist side of this Batman. Maybe he’ll die at the end of the series, maybe he’ll continue as Batman with a Robin. Either way, there’s no way out for this take. But that’s what I want to see. I wouldn’t change the ending of TDKR. It’s beautiful. But it’s a one and done for me. I wouldn’t want to see that ever again. And I don’t really watch movies with super happy endings tbh lol. When it’s done well, I’m a sucker for it. But boy is it rare. Maybe that’s just my personality. I’m not married, no kids, I essentially live my life like I’m still 21. And I’m moody lol. I also don’t believe in happy endings in this life, I have a darker outlook even though I try to be kind and helpful. But I’ll always be at odds with life, so I relate in SOME strange way to this character. Maybe that’s why I cry when I see Bale smile at Caine...because it’s a nice fantasy to me. But when i see Keaton or Pattinson, it feels more real to me?

Having a Batman that was always so much older than me, made him feel like a father figure or older brother. But I already have those two things in my life. I don’t really need it in fiction. So often when reading a comic, WE are Batman. We see Gotham’s criminals through his eyes, his thoughts. To finally have a Batman movie where he’s my age, from my generation? It’s a glorious thing to witness. It’s so much more relatable. For once there’s no longer a distance that I feel (he’s usually 20-40 years older than me). Maybe when I’m in my 40’s I won’t feel the same about Pattinson or early Bale. But all of my favourite stories involve a young Batman. So who knows. My priority is to live in the moment, and right now this is my Batman. Hopefully as I grow into my 40’s, so does Battinson. And THEN maybe i won’t connect to the next guy because it’ll be the first time in my life where Batman is much younger than me haha.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

My dad, who unfortunately passed away this past tuesday morning,

My condolences.

 

[shauner111]

@Gothamsknight hey bud, I really am sorry to hear about your dad. You never really know what any of us are going through behind closed doors. When I go through stuff (not on that level mind you) MY first instinct is to be on edge. And I think it shows online. But you were losing your dad and none of us could see that for a second. You’re always so nice in this space. It’s kind of incredible. My condolences man. Really sucks. But you’re a champ!

 

[Lautox]

Yeah, I think I've reached a point with Batman movies where everything I've wanted to see I've seen. Not just that, but what I've wanted to see, knowing at the time or not, happened a long time ago. The Batman was a great movie, but it's something that I feel like I'm less interested in revisiting now than I had previous thought I would be. What it offers is something great, but it's also something that doesn't scratch the itch for me like the Nolan films did. I guess this is why they say Nostalgia is so powerful haha, but there's truth to that. I don't really see what this version of the character can do that will move me as emotionally as any of Nolan films did, or even non Batman comic book movies too. It's not that I don't think the movie is great, because I do, but the fact that it kind of left me so quickly pretty much encapsulates my feelings overall. This character thrives on interpretations, but with each new interpretation comes a new generation as well. Each new generation has a version that impacts them personally and changes the way they view certain things. The Nolan movies did that for me. Whether it was the films themselves, or what was going on at the time too. My dad, who unfortunately passed away this past tuesday morning, was a big fan of TDK, and i remember him being skeptical of Ledger before seeing the movie and then being blown away by his performance. All of these things just impacted me so much that it's pretty much impossible for any new version to do that for me. Plus, I just think that particular version was more of what I was looking for out of a Batman story. All the themes of vengeance not being the answer, and becoming a symbol of hope was covered in under the first hour of Batman Begins. 3 hours into The Batman, it's telling us those same things which is, again, great for newer fans today, but I've seen that already and that's going to play a part in how I feel.

I think this is why it's important to sometimes separate your personal feelings to judge the movie on it's own. It is a great movie, and perhaps it's my fault for expecting it to hit those same beats for me.

Sorry about your dad man, you know that even though we don't know each other we all are a big family here

 

[BatLobster]

@Gothamsknight Ugh, that is so awful...I can't imagine. Once again, so sorry and I echo what @shauner111 said. You are recognized for being the great guy you are on here, the way you carry yourself, always a pleasure to interact with- I wish you and your family nothing but the best during this difficult time, really man.

I can respect all of that. I understand what you’re saying, even though I probably have the polar opposite mindset when it comes to Batman.

See, I’ve always been more fascinated with the psychology of each character as well as the horror elements from the Gotham mythology rather than the “symbol” (TDK trilogy nails that. No argument there. If I need that itch scratched, I’ll know where to go). But that ‘bigger picture’ is not really something that interests me too much. Id rather follow this character through his eyes than watch the story unfold through the eyes of less interesting side characters. We’ve seen that done many times and will continue to post-Reeves. It’s refreshing to get away from that.

I think it also has to do with me being in love with film more than comics. Always been that way. I’m a movie guy not a comic book guy. As you might know, I’ve been a fan of Batman since I was about 2 or 3 years old (thank you Keaton & Conroy). 30 years easy. But I only read my first comic when I was 10. Knightfall to be exact. And then I didn’t touch a comic book for close to 10 years, around the time TDK came out. I started off slow back then by cherry picking graphic novels that intrigued me, and learned a lot from discussions on the hype, rewatching the movies & animated series and researching online when i had free time. Reading comics only ramped up when Nolan’s trilogy was over and the Snyder flicks weren’t really cutting it. That’s when i fell in love with the mythology more than ever. You can call me a late bloomer lol even though it’s such a bizarre thing to say to a 30 year fanboy! I always land on the weird character driven stories instead of the big event stories from the lore so MAYBE that’s where you and I differ? You might have to correct me on that one. Also i think it’s important to point out one other thing...I don’t really watch many action movies. Not much of a “blockbuster” fan. I’m SUUUUUPER picky with action, war & musicals. So when a Batman movie is made in the mold of a atmospheric, POV driven murder mystery...I’m naturally going to jump for joy. That’s the ticket to excitement for me because it exists in a film genre that I feel closer to on a personal level. The Batman scratches that itch, and it’s the reason why i can see myself rewatching it over and over because I love hang out movies. You guys talk about this being so plot driven, and it is. But it also has a chill, hang out in Gotham City, follow the tortured protagonist around town vibe. Totally my bag. Most of my favourite movies right there.

You’re also right about the doomed protagonist side of this Batman. Maybe he’ll die at the end of the series, maybe he’ll continue as Batman with a Robin. Either way, there’s no way out for this take. But that’s what I want to see. I wouldn’t change the ending of TDKR. It’s beautiful. But it’s a one and done for me. I wouldn’t want to see that ever again. And I don’t really watch movies with super happy endings tbh lol. When it’s done well, I’m a sucker for it. But boy is it rare. Maybe that’s just my personality. I’m not married, no kids, I essentially live my life like I’m still 21. And I’m moody lol. I also don’t believe in happy endings in this life, I have a darker outlook even though I try to be kind and helpful. But I’ll always be at odds with life, so I relate in SOME strange way to this character. Maybe that’s why I cry when I see Bale smile at Caine...because it’s a nice fantasy to me. But when i see Keaton or Pattinson, it feels more real to me?

Having a Batman that was always so much older than me, made him feel like a father figure or older brother. But I already have those two things in my life. I don’t really need it in fiction. So often when reading a comic, WE are Batman. We see Gotham’s criminals through his eyes, his thoughts. To finally have a Batman movie where he’s my age, from my generation? It’s a glorious thing to witness. It’s so much more relatable. For once there’s no longer a distance that I feel (he’s usually 20-40 years older than me). Maybe when I’m in my 40’s I won’t feel the same about Pattinson or early Bale. But all of my favourite stories involve a young Batman. So who knows. My priority is to live in the moment, and right now this is my Batman. Hopefully as I grow into my 40’s, so does Battinson. And THEN maybe i won’t connect to the next guy because it’ll be the first time in my life where Batman is much younger than me haha.

Dude, I respect where you're coming from too. You don't have to justify it (although I think it can be interesting to be introspective and think about what connects us to this stuff), and I enjoy hearing a different perspective. What you're saying makes complete sense, based on your outlook and where your tastes are. I mean that's the thing-- that's the reason I'll always find Batman fascinating on an intellectual level for this reason. It resonates with different people in different ways, and the various interpretations speak to some people more than others. I do hope there will be a point where I get the itch to vibe out in the noir-horror world of The Batman again soon. Right now, just not feeling strongly compelled to go back there in one 3 hour sitting (perhaps when the 4k comes out)-- but I mean I also adored Blade Runner 2049 when I saw it, own the 4k, and have STILL yet to rewatch that film in its entirety. It doesn't make me think any less of the film. Maybe my patience for longer, mood-driven character films isn't there anymore. Although on the other hand I've seen Once Upon a Time in Hollywood like 4 times. Granted, that's a fairly light-hearted film and it probably helps that I find that movie hilarious and I love Tarantino's take on a "hang out" movie. I don't know even know! Figuring out my own taste at this point is something of an enigma to me.

I mean, I love Fincher, horror, film noir...these are all genres and influences that are extremely comfortable to me. I love serial killer stories and binge plenty of true crime podcasts and docs. I think in a lot of ways The Batman is comfort food to me. Don't get me wrong, I'd still take a movie of this quality over the vast majority of IP blockbusters and modern superhero fare. It just doesn't give me the type of dopamine hit/adrenaline rush that I used to get, maybe because it feels more like a combination of things I've seen before combined with overall saturation of the character and some of the stuff I was talking about earlier.

And regardless of my read on Battinson being "doomed" (we'll see, a lot of story yet to be written), I think I'll always root for Bats to overcome the odds, however that looks.

 

[Gothamsknight]

@Gothamsknight hey bud, I really am sorry to hear about your dad. You never really know what any of us are going through behind closed doors. When I go through stuff (not on that level mind you) MY first instinct is to be on edge. And I think it shows online. But you were losing your dad and none of us could see that for a second. You’re always so nice in this space. It’s kind of incredible. My condolences man. Really sucks. But you’re a champ!

That means a lot, dude! It really does. I try to be as open minded as possible here, neither too positive or too negative haha. I feel like it goes a long way overall.

@Gothamsknight Ugh, that is so awful...I can't imagine. Once again, so sorry and I echo what @shauner111 said. You are recognized for being the great guy you are on here, the way you carry yourself, always a pleasure to interact with- I wish you and your family nothing but the best during this difficult time, really man.

The feeling is mutual, dude. You and @shauner111 kind words mean a lot, they really do. A nice gesture or compliment like that goes a long way.

 

[Rick190293]

@Gothamsknight my condolences, man. May time help you and your family overcome the pain.
That's why Batman is a great character, we can relate to it thanks to talented people who make the magic. My Batman is Bale too, like with @BatLobster I was impacted by it during a formative period of my life, the trilogy accompanied from ages 12-19. I came to the conclusion that it will always be special and unsurpassed for me, even throught I try to be open-minded and enjoyed both Affleck and now Pattinson. And if those are your Batman, or Keaton, that's great! I'm so happy that we got another amazing version of Batman and his world that can be impactful.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Oldman's obviously had far more to work with, so he takes it. But if Wright gets a good arc (which I expect him to) I can see it being a tough call.

 

[Filmfreak]

Too bad we probably won't be having more J. K. Simmons now. Poor guy. I thought he could have made a really good Gordon, and from the very brief appearance he had, I liked what I saw a lot. I was looking forward to seeing more of him in Batgirl.

 

[shauner111]

I never thought he fit the character. It’s like Jonah Jameson relaxed but still Jonah Jameson. Sam Elliott would have been great for the Snyder DCEU. I also never bought him as Leslie’s father. She’d work well as Wright’s daughter.

 

[Lautox]

Or even Cranston would've been cool to see