I love all the Falcone/Wayne stuff. I still wouldn’t change a thing about this movie. With that said, Craig helped Reeves with the second act and Matt said they won’t be working together anymore.
I also don’t think it was resolved. People seem to think that Alfred tells Bruce that his dad was still an angel and then Bruce accepts it and moves on. That’s not at all how i read the scene. He didn’t look like he suddenly accepted any of it. He just knows now that his father wasn’t an angel, nor was he a evil mob boss. It’s more complicated. And he takes that with him into the final scene of the movie where he can now look at himself in a way that isn’t black or white (like he was before). He can now see his own faults and failures and strives to do better. It’s all connected to his parents and the new information that was given to him by Alfred. It’s just not spelt out with a monologue that includes “my father did this...and now I can..” there’s no need for it.
That... Falcone perpetuated that Thomas was "bad" in the sense to also pass the blame onto Maroni. Riddler painted Thomas being full-on bad.
And, Alfred was merely honest. Thomas wasn't bad or evil. He was a good guy who made one bad decision, to ask for help from Falcone // which lead to their deaths.
Thomas was flawed, as are most people and Bruce understood that. I think that notion helped him see that making Batman's view being so black & white doesn't work Which in turn helped him see he can be more than a fist to the underbelly of Gotham. He needs to be a beacon for those affected by Gotham's crime and faults.
Yep, I have the exact same reading.
I already liked how
Joker addressed that idea Thomas Wayne could be, if not corrupt, then at least a little further away from that usual naive image of the good old philanthropic businessman.
There's somewhere in this thread a post of mine, before
The Batman came out, where I shared how sure I was the Riddler would know who Batman is under the cowl and would use the corruption of the Wayne family to try to deconstruct him. That ultimately didn't happen, but the outcome was the same: Bruce had to step out of his vengeance and embrace something bigger to become Gotham's symbol of hope.
Like said, I love all of this, it makes for a great character arc. But in the actual movie, I had doubts with the way these related scenes were "built" into the script. It's really only a
technical gripe, for lack of a better word. Like a
"It is not what is told but how" kind of thing.
And like said
@Iceman above, it's because I really love the movie that I feel a bit frustrated by what was, to me, some clumsy articulations.
... I'm just repeating myself aha
.
It's odd because the Falcone/Wayne Family stuff is both technically something of a flaw because it happens too quickly and feels too compressed but it's also the most interesting part of the movie and the glue that holds it together? I genuinely don't think any of the Riddler stuff (which I also love and could write endlessly about what a great, unsettling, topical villain he is) works without it.
Yeah, in all honesty it should've been something that happened slowly over the course of the movie. Have something at the Mitchell crime scene which hints at the Wayne corruption that plants the seed of doubt for Bruce (but not enough for Bruce to know 100% for certain that's the case and worth investigating yet). Let him stew in it, maybe have that be the source of his animosity towards Alfred. Then hit him with the reveal when it happens. It would've made the situation a lot more effective.
Absolutely how I felt about it too.
_____
On a related topic, with this Bruce finally
overcoming that rage for revenge, I'm really curious to see where Reeves and Pattinson will take him from there. Sometimes it seems that the character can only take center stage when it comes to building or deconstructing the Batman entity and then fades into the background a bit, as was sometimes the case in previous adaptations. I really hope the focus will be maintain on him in the sequel. With even more voiceovers, please...
).
