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Yeah, went through a wide wave of grooming issues a few years back. It is definitely one group exploiting Nintendo's hesitance to embrace e-sports for Smash.

Japan also has very different views on fair use.
 
Yeah, went through a wide wave of grooming issues a few years back. It is definitely one group exploiting Nintendo's hesitance to embrace e-sports for Smash.

Japan also has very different views on fair use.
Oh damn, lot worse than I thought then.

A bit of a shame as Smash Bros I would guess could be a huge hit in esports.

Yeah, saw that in the past a few times with YouTube content creators on the wrong end of it.
 
Maybe, if the competitive scene wasn't obsessed with removing what makes Smash Smash.
 
What are they trying to change about the game?

Any and all the factors that make the game appealing to the average player: items, final smashes, most of the characters and stages. . . basically, everything that makes Smash, Smash, rather than just another fighting game. Anything with even the slightest bit of randomness or unpredictability, because the self described "Smash Gods" want to pretend that they can deterministically win without chance being a factor, but only their own godlike skills.

Essentially, the game as played by the tournament players, has very little correlation with the game that Nintendo sells to the average customer. And that is why Nintendo has always been cold to the "Smash scene", because what they want the game to be, is not what Nintendo wants the game to be. Which is doubly a problem because the "Smash scene" *absolutely* views themselves as the One And True Holy Arbiters Of Smash, who get to decide what is good and what is bad and how the game should be played.

I *also* have zero sympathy because the main reason their tournament got cancelled was because they want a license so they could make it a *money making business*, and found that getting a license takes time. This was not "Nintendo stomping on a bunch of people playing Smash in their basement", it was Nintendo not legally approving a *business*, that wanted to use their IP *to make money*.
 
Any and all the factors that make the game appealing to the average player: items, final smashes, most of the characters and stages. . . basically, everything that makes Smash, Smash, rather than just another fighting game. Anything with even the slightest bit of randomness or unpredictability, because the self described "Smash Gods" want to pretend that they can deterministically win without chance being a factor, but only their own godlike skills.

Essentially, the game as played by the tournament players, has very little correlation with the game that Nintendo sells to the average customer. And that is why Nintendo has always been cold to the "Smash scene", because what they want the game to be, is not what Nintendo wants the game to be. Which is doubly a problem because the "Smash scene" *absolutely* views themselves as the One And True Holy Arbiters Of Smash, who get to decide what is good and what is bad and how the game should be played.

I *also* have zero sympathy because the main reason their tournament got cancelled was because they want a license so they could make it a *money making business*, and found that getting a license takes time. This was not "Nintendo stomping on a bunch of people playing Smash in their basement", it was Nintendo not legally approving a *business*, that wanted to use their IP *to make money*.
I see, thanks for the info. Kind of had in my mind that the Nintendo multiplayer community might be a bit less wild than the others but looks like that's not the case. Also when it comes to making money from Nintendo stuff, can't expect them not to have a voice on that. A bit different when it's youtubers promoting their stuff and getting clamped down on.
 
@Joe Von Zombie Amnesia + semi open-world sandbox!


Amnesia: The Bunker is a first-person horror game from the makers of SOMA and Amnesia.

Left all alone in a desolate WW1 bunker with only one bullet remaining in the barrel, it’s up to you to face the oppressing terrors in the dark. Keep the lights on at all costs, persevere, and make your way out alive. A truly intense horror experience.

  • Dynamic and ever-present monster that reacts to player actions.
  • Constant tension - Time is not on your side.
  • Tactile and physics based interactions with the world.
  • Scavenge for resources and craft tools to aid your survival.
  • Multiple solutions to problem solving in a non-linear open world.

Sounds like the immersive sim horror game follow-up to Alien Isolation I've been waiting for.
 
Would love if any of these images were used in a game, especially the one with the tigers.

 
I see, thanks for the info. Kind of had in my mind that the Nintendo multiplayer community might be a bit less wild than the others but looks like that's not the case. Also when it comes to making money from Nintendo stuff, can't expect them not to have a voice on that. A bit different when it's youtubers promoting their stuff and getting clamped down on.

As a rule of thumb, don't figure that the Smash community is as bad as the rest of the fighting game community. Assume they are *worse*.

( And it really is Smash-specific, none of the other multiplayer oriented Nintendo games have anywhere near as toxic a community. Even Pokemon, while it can get really bad, it mostly doesn't revolve around the multiplayer aspect specifically. )
 
As a rule of thumb, don't figure that the Smash community is as bad as the rest of the fighting game community. Assume they are *worse*.

( And it really is Smash-specific, none of the other multiplayer oriented Nintendo games have anywhere near as toxic a community. Even Pokemon, while it can get really bad, it mostly doesn't revolve around the multiplayer aspect specifically. )
Haha, would never have guessed that. Wonder why that’s happened with Smash specifically.
 
Basically... Super Smash Bros Melee was a big hit on the Gamecube, or at least as big a hit as any game on the Gamecube could be. And this was at a time when what we would now recognize as the Competitive Fighting Game Community was forming. Melee was distinct from other fighting games, but it had a lot of skill ceiling and room for people to do things that you couldn't do in other fighting game, thus it developed a competitive "scene" like many other fighting games. People would get together to play semi-organized and later fully-organized tournaments of Melee, just like they did for games like Street Fighter or Tekken.

The difference is. . . most other fighting games, the publisher looked on this as a good thing. Street Fighter or Tekken developing a tournament circuit was just a development of the arcade scene that was native to fighting games since the genre started. Nintendo, however, was much more skeptical of this movement. Their paradigm for a game wasn't "people competing in an arcade to be The Best", it was "people playing it at home for fun, whether they win or lose". It didn't help that the way the Melee scene ran their tournaments was *extremely* constrained, with most of the content of the game officially or unofficially banned; content, I would note, that Nintendo included out of a desire to make the game more appealing to the average player. The way the competitive scene played Smash was alien to the way Nintendo wished to market Smash to their larger customer base.

Nintendo thus responded in two important ways. First, they did not provide any official support or sanction for competitive Smash, as a matter of policy. They *mostly* didn't interfere, but they definitely didn't promote or fund it, not in the way most other fighting game publishers did. Second, they released a sequel, Super Smash Bros Brawl. . . and they made a *lot* of mechanical changes to it, most of which were antithetical to the competitive scene: adding in more ways for random chance to be a factor, and removing various bugs and glitches that the Melee scene had turned into core gameplay skills. The Melee scene viewed these are collectively amounting to "Nintendo waging war against us", and they've had a persecution complex ever since. And however much you might think they are objectively right about whether Nintendo was opposed to them ( Nintendo *absolutely* was ). . . it doesn't change that having a community whose identity revolves around "The Man is out to get us"? Is not exactly the healthiest environment. Thus you get the present, where the Melee-derived Smash community largely views themselves as self-righteous martyrs.

( Oh, and this is entirely separate from the *other* problem in the Smash community: rampant sexual abuse. Because as it turns out, a community full of competitive would-be elites who all started as little kids, then grew up into adult celebrities in said community still composed mainly of kids, all while isolated from the larger world by a sense of persecution? Is a *great* environment for sexual predators! )
 
Basically... Super Smash Bros Melee was a big hit on the Gamecube, or at least as big a hit as any game on the Gamecube could be. And this was at a time when what we would now recognize as the Competitive Fighting Game Community was forming. Melee was distinct from other fighting games, but it had a lot of skill ceiling and room for people to do things that you couldn't do in other fighting game, thus it developed a competitive "scene" like many other fighting games. People would get together to play semi-organized and later fully-organized tournaments of Melee, just like they did for games like Street Fighter or Tekken.

The difference is. . . most other fighting games, the publisher looked on this as a good thing. Street Fighter or Tekken developing a tournament circuit was just a development of the arcade scene that was native to fighting games since the genre started. Nintendo, however, was much more skeptical of this movement. Their paradigm for a game wasn't "people competing in an arcade to be The Best", it was "people playing it at home for fun, whether they win or lose". It didn't help that the way the Melee scene ran their tournaments was *extremely* constrained, with most of the content of the game officially or unofficially banned; content, I would note, that Nintendo included out of a desire to make the game more appealing to the average player. The way the competitive scene played Smash was alien to the way Nintendo wished to market Smash to their larger customer base.

Nintendo thus responded in two important ways. First, they did not provide any official support or sanction for competitive Smash, as a matter of policy. They *mostly* didn't interfere, but they definitely didn't promote or fund it, not in the way most other fighting game publishers did. Second, they released a sequel, Super Smash Bros Brawl. . . and they made a *lot* of mechanical changes to it, most of which were antithetical to the competitive scene: adding in more ways for random chance to be a factor, and removing various bugs and glitches that the Melee scene had turned into core gameplay skills. The Melee scene viewed these are collectively amounting to "Nintendo waging war against us", and they've had a persecution complex ever since. And however much you might think they are objectively right about whether Nintendo was opposed to them ( Nintendo *absolutely* was ). . . it doesn't change that having a community whose identity revolves around "The Man is out to get us"? Is not exactly the healthiest environment. Thus you get the present, where the Melee-derived Smash community largely views themselves as self-righteous martyrs.

( Oh, and this is entirely separate from the *other* problem in the Smash community: rampant sexual abuse. Because as it turns out, a community full of competitive would-be elites who all started as little kids, then grew up into adult celebrities in said community still composed mainly of kids, all while isolated from the larger world by a sense of persecution? Is a *great* environment for sexual predators! )
Thanks for that history, was an interesting read. All makes a bit more sense now, although it can all be shut down if they let the last part exist and don’t discourage it enough.

I can see at least part of Nintendo’s view as “try hards” in online multiplayer often ruin things for normal people who are just trying to have fun, with abusive messages or live chat. PS/Xbox/pc are probably better suited to handle it especially as I’d guess a lot younger kids are allowed to use Nintendos that aren’t yet allowed on the others. Fun rather than *gitting gud seems to be the message.

All that said I do like watching the best in a given fighting game/shooter/sports game.
 
And the drama just keeps going. lol

Just a complete airing of grievances going on.

Frankly, not surprised the only e-sport game they support is Splatoon.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/12/08/ftc-sues-microsoft-over-activision/
FTC sues to block Microsoft’s acquisition of game giant Activision

Microsoft would have the ability to thwart competitors by withholding these games from competing game systems entirely, or by manipulating pricing and degrading game quality on rival consoles.

Sony's already doing it with their current deal with Activision but somehow that isn't a problem...
 


EU exposed the FTC.

Just seems highly incompetent for the FTC to not just ask the EU before concluding that. Would only help their case later to get it in writing officially confirmed rather than assuming and getting it wrong.
 
Just seems highly incompetent for the FTC to not just ask the EU before concluding that. Would only help their case later to get it in writing officially confirmed rather than assuming and getting it wrong.

It just seems there's a lot of incompetence with this issue in the US, UK and the EU among the authorities. I mean Microsoft literally had to bring game consoles to the FTC and explain how they work.

https://www.gamereactor.eu/eu-regulator-accused-of-having-a-playstation-bias-1220383/

Now the Commission has come under heavy criticism on social media after one of its members, Ricardo Cardoso, made a statement on Twitter that could be interpreted as him having his own motives for blocking Microsoft.

More specifically, Cardoso writes that they are working to "ensure that you will still be able to play Call of Duty on other consoles (including my Playstation)".

Several notables have condemned the statement, including IGN senior editor Ryan McCaffrey, who writes: "I'm not sure it gets any clearer than the Head of Xbox's public statement on this matter from less than 2 weeks ago. It'll still be on 'your' PlayStation, don't worry."
 
It just seems there's a lot of incompetence with this issue in the US, UK and the EU among the authorities. I mean Microsoft literally had to bring game consoles to the FTC and explain how they work.

https://www.gamereactor.eu/eu-regulator-accused-of-having-a-playstation-bias-1220383/
It’s a bit surprising as I’d expect regulators to be much more sticklers for rules and less prone to leaks and silly public statements that undermine their organisation. Also reading through some of the statements by the UK’s CMA makes it look like they don’t really know much about the gaming landscape. The FTC at least did that side of thing behind closed doors which is better for them. There’re much better reasons to fight this than they’ve come up with.
 
It’s a bit surprising as I’d expect regulators to be much more sticklers for rules and less prone to leaks and silly public statements that undermine their organisation. Also reading through some of the statements by the UK’s CMA makes it look like they don’t really know much about the gaming landscape. The FTC at least did that side of thing behind closed doors which is better for them. There’s much better reasons to fight this than they’ve come up with.

Even Elizabeth Warren is being rightfully asked in the replies of her tweet about the lawsuit, how much does she actually know about the gaming industry? Or she is asked to talk to her younger staff about it. There're several comments like "there's cause to go after the big tech but this ain't it".
 

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