What should Gunn do with Batman?

I’m not the biggest fan of The Batman, as the tone was a little dreary for my tastes. But I really didn’t like the idea of Batman vs Deathstroke as the central aspect of a film. I wanted a more detective Batman and not another punch ‘em up Batman movie. Snyder turned me off on that. Plus, I see Deathstroke as a Dick Grayson villain much more than Bruce.

But no offense intended. I just wanted to disagree with a funny gif
 
*Theoretically* Deathstroke could be the villain in an otherwise detective-oriented movie, he isn't exactly a mindless meathead. However, there are several *other* good reasons why Deathstroke is a bad pick for a movie villain:

1. Deathstroke is ultimately a mercenary, not a mastermind. Outside of certain Teen Titans-related plotlines ( that would be irrelevant for a Batman movie ), he is a dude that does stuff because he's a professional who was paid to do it. This means that Deathstroke *wouldn't and shouldn't* be the villain of the movie, but the person who hired him, as they are the one whose motives and decisions drive the story.

2. In the role of "superpowered skill master opposition that poses a mortal danger to Batman", he is an outsider impinging on already occupied turf. Batman already has Bane, Lady Shiva, David Cain, and even KGBeast, all of whom are actual Batman villains who would fill that plot role better than Deathstroke. If you have to make a "One vs One Duel Of Batman Against An Intelligent Deadly Rival", use one of those rather than borrowing an outside villain.
 
Nevermind the fact that we are way overdue for Dick Grayson's return to the silver screen, but I think it'd be interesting to see Batman in a supporting capacity. It's a fresh perspective that we're not accustomed to seeing on the big screen. Batman Forever and B&R kinda skirted it, but even then I'd say Batman and Robin were co-leads in those films. Rather, I'd make Robin the undisputed lead character, with Batman in the mentor-type role. Keep the POV almost squarely on Robin at all times. Or heck, do the Bat Family with Dick and Barbara as the POV characters. Either way, Batman's not the focus here.

You now have a version of Batman that is instantly distinguishable from Pattinson's. And since the DCU Batman's function is to serve the development of another character, you justify its existence.

ding ding ding

Should absolutely push forward with the Bat family — Nightwing and Batgirl specifically.

I even like Nightwing facing against Red Hood in his first film, then set Todd on a redemptive arc (and potential spin-offs).

Bring back Leslie Grace as Batgirl and make (and release!) a Batgirl film where she teams with Black Canary and features Nightwing, and Batman.

Then kill Batman in a Gotham Knights film that introduces Damian and the Court of Owls.
 
I’m not the biggest fan of The Batman, as the tone was a little dreary for my tastes. But I really didn’t like the idea of Batman vs Deathstroke as the central aspect of a film. I wanted a more detective Batman and not another punch ‘em up Batman movie. Snyder turned me off on that. Plus, I see Deathstroke as a Dick Grayson villain much more than Bruce.

But no offense intended. I just wanted to disagree with a funny gif

Yeah, no worries. For me the idea of a "kind of" solo Batman movie set in a DCEU was something I had wanted for years. I am not the biggest Snyder fan either, but I liked ZSJL and I love Affleck as Batman. Same as I love the casting of Henry Cavill as Superman, even if I want very much different Superman/DC films for him.
 
Recast Affleck if he's truelly out, DCU needs a Batman.
 
Terry McGinnis or Dick Grayson?
Hard no on Terry McGinnis. Batman Beyond is fine, but should not be the main continuity Batman. The entire Batman Beyond concept is only interesting to me when coupled with a futuristic setting, or with Easter eggs that show what the other characters did as they got older (Damien becoming Ras Al Ghul, Dick Grayson becoming mayor of Bludhaven and his daughter becoming Batwoman Beyond, Barbara becoming Commissioner, and so on.) I personally think it would be boring to have him a main continuity Batman in the present.
Now Dick Grayson as Batman can be interesting, but probably not long term. What makes him interesting is his reluctance and the fact that he doesn’t want to be Batman. He wants to be Nightwing and has only taken the Batman mantle on occasions out of necessity. It’s not who he is. And when he is Batman, he is such a stark contrast to Bruce’s Batman. It makes for great stories, and I personally love them (Black Mirror and Battle for the Cowl are two of my favorites) but I think there has to be a lot of foundation invested in it to pull it off.
 
I was willing to accept McGinnis as the main Batman if WBD was adamant on continuing the existing continuity and not recasting Affleck, but only because it was the lesser of evils. All things equal, Batman Beyond works better as a stand-alone entity or as something you would do waaaay down the road (to use a MCU equivalency, it'd be like a Phase 6 or 7 project).

If you jump right into Batman Beyond, you need to be prepared to lose a TON of history with these characters.
 
It was a mistake to have killed Dick Grayson in the DCEU they should have used Jason Todd as the dead Robin instead i wish Ben Affleck Batman had a Bat Family it sucks that we will never see Nightwing in the DCEU at least not Dick Grayson Nightwing of course they can resurrect Grayson but i feel like it would look very weird and i have a theory that Jared Leto Joker is actually Dick Grayson i would like the Second Robin in the DCEU to be Tim Drake since they combined Dick story with Jason in one character in the DCEU
 
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It was a mistake to have killed Dick Grayson in the DCEU they should have used Jason Todd as the dead Robin instead i wish Ben Affleck Batman had a Bat Family it sucks that we will never see Nightwing in the DCEU at least not Dick Grayson Nightwing of course they can resurrect Grayson but i feel like it would look very weird and i have a theory that Jared Leto Joker is actually Dick Grayson i would like the Second Robin in the DCEU to be Tim Drake since they combined Dick story with Jason in one character in the DCEU
I know that I’m Snyder’s mind Dick is dead, but it is never completely confirmed in the film, unless there’s an Easter egg tombstone somewhere. But it’s nothing that couldn’t be explained away.
But I agree with you 100%. And that was just one of many many missteps that Snyder made in establishing the foundation of the DCEU imho.
 
I know that I’m Snyder’s mind Dick is dead, but it is never completely confirmed in the film, unless there’s an Easter egg tombstone somewhere. But it’s nothing that couldn’t be explained away.
Which is why I always thought of it as a none issue.
 
I know that I’m Snyder’s mind Dick is dead, but it is never completely confirmed in the film, unless there’s an Easter egg tombstone somewhere. But it’s nothing that couldn’t be explained away.
But I agree with you 100%. And that was just one of many many missteps that Snyder made in establishing the foundation of the DCEU imho.
In Snyder Justice League Joker says that he killed Robin but i dont know if that is Canon but well they maybe will reboot soon i dont care that much lets just say that DCEU Joker was Dick
 
In Snyder Justice League Joker says that he killed Robin but i dont know if that is Canon but well they maybe will reboot soon i dont care that much lets just say that DCEU Joker was Dick
But he said he killed Robin, not Dick Grayson.
upload_2022-12-9_11-2-25.gif

But agreed. It doesn’t matter anyway with reboots and all.
 
So yet another reboot of Batman, next to the one from Reeves? It gets messy.

People will lose interest in the character this way i guess, its a overload, just what Star Wars is at the moment.
 
Feels like Snyder when he did Batman vs Superman was just his personal project and not creating a whole DC Universe if Batman vs Superman was a Black Label story like Joker movie could have been much better
 
Feels like Snyder when he did Batman vs Superman was just his personal project and not creating a whole DC Universe if Batman vs Superman was a Black Label story like Joker movie could have been much better

i think thats where lot of the conflict was.
snyder was just doing his elseworlds one off take.
but the studio wanted to build a whole cinematic universe from it.

shakey foundations.
 
Feels like Snyder when he did Batman vs Superman was just his personal project and not creating a whole DC Universe if Batman vs Superman was a Black Label story like Joker movie could have been much better

i think thats where lot of the conflict was.
snyder was just doing his elseworlds one off take.
but the studio wanted to build a whole cinematic universe from it.

shakey foundations.

Absolutely.

As Nolan had been able to do what he wanted with Batman, I saw what Snyder was doing as a mini-saga of his vision of the DC universe. That's also why I was happy to finally see his Justice League cut even though I didn't really like it. We had a somewhat complete vision of a director on the material (even if he just completely jumped the shark by adding clumsy things at the last minute that don't make much sense) and I honestly take that on a uniform shared universe any day (I know I'm alone here)...

The irony of it all is that, I think, if Warner hadn't released spin-offs of Snyder's version of the characters and just had him wrap it up with his Justice League (even if in two parts), the studio might not have made crazy amounts of money (I honestly think the films would have remained reasonably profitable) but everything could have been rebooted as soon as 2019/2020. Plus, having a complete saga could have allowed it to possibly find a new audience later on and continue to make a bit of money afterwards...

What WB finally have is neither a self-contained DC saga, nor a cinematic universe. Just a handful of half-connected, messy, rewritten-to-death movies with no real conclusion, the discovery of which will always seems pointless. A very expensive waste.
 
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So yet another reboot of Batman, next to the one from Reeves? It gets messy.

People will lose interest in the character this way i guess, its a overload, just what Star Wars is at the moment.

It's already messy, but here we are. lol Personally, I think a newly cast Batman (for the DCU) should appear in an ensemble before he gets his own stand-alone film. And they needn't rush the latter. That way, Reeves gets to play in his own sandbox all the while Gunn, Safran, et al. are doing their utmost to earn back good-will with the general audience. If this new DCU Batman proves likeable enough to earn a fairly strong following by virtue of his appearances in multiple team-up or ensemble films, you can finally give him a stand-alone further down the road. By that time, Reeves will be almost done w/ his finite Batman story.
 
We just got Batman back on track with some standalone movies. It would be bizarre to throw a Taxi Driver inspired neo noir film into a colorful DCU. And exhausting for another separate Batman.

Just let Reeves finish his movies, and bring in a new Batman into the DCU after. I know it's not going to be that, but if I had to pick, I'd rather the latter. I really, really don't want this Batman integrated.
 
We just got Batman back on track with some standalone movies. It would be bizarre to throw a Taxi Driver inspired neo noir film into a colorful DCU. And exhausting for another separate Batman.

Just let Reeves finish his movies, and bring in a new Batman into the DCU after. I know it's not going to be that, but if I had to pick, I'd rather the latter. I really, really don't want this Batman integrated.
Well, Batman: Year One was a Taxi Driver inspired neo noir comic, and that was part of the wider DC universe.
 
We just got Batman back on track with some standalone movies. It would be bizarre to throw a Taxi Driver inspired neo noir film into a colorful DCU. And exhausting for another separate Batman.

Just let Reeves finish his movies, and bring in a new Batman into the DCU after. I know it's not going to be that, but if I had to pick, I'd rather the latter. I really, really don't want this Batman integrated.

To be fair, we already have two Jokers, right? Reeves' version and Phillips', respectively. And we'll be getting another Harley Quinn (portrayed by Gaga) soon as well. It is what it is. You can't reboot the DCU and not have Batman appear from the get-go. And like you said, Reeves' version of the character isn't an ideal fit for the shared universe model but at the same time deserves his chance to continue separately. So another Batman for the DCU is the only way to go, as I see it.
 
Well, Batman: Year One was a Taxi Driver inspired neo noir comic, and that was part of the wider DC universe.

But Reeves' pitch was getting Batman away from the fantastical. It was pitched as a very real, gritty Batman movie. Superman flying around defies the logic of the approach. It's like the Nolan films. Even more so. You would have to change the rules. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would go back on what Reeves originally said. How people see that, is up to them I guess. I'll be very disappointed. It really muddles this vision.

To be fair, we already have two Jokers, right? Reeves' version and Phillips', respectively. And we'll be getting another Harley Quinn (portrayed by Gaga) soon as well. It is what it is. You can't reboot the DCU and not have Batman appear from the get-go. And like you said, Reeves' version of the character isn't an ideal fit for the shared universe model but at the same time deserves his chance to continue separately. So another Batman for the DCU is the only way to go, as I see it.

Maybe we've gotten to the point where audiences can just accept them because they're so well known. I just worry about fatigue in the Reeves' film's case, which had some baggage to overcome before being accepted. I loved the simplicity of The Batman. And the idea of being in the clear after a decade that was the nightmare that was the Snyder films, and then going, "But there's another Batman!" makes me exhausted.
 

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