Joker 'JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX' (Phillips and Phoenix return for the sequel) General News & Discussion Thread

Matt.S99 said:
Honestly, it took me all day yesterday lol. And then I started fussing over a couple areas this morning.
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It'd take me a month and not turn out half as good! Was the Queen of Diamonds your idea?
 
Milk Tray Guy said:
It'd take me a month and not turn out half as good! Was the Queen of Diamonds your idea?
Click to expand...
I cheated a bit and had actually sketched out the face around the time she was first announced in the role, but wanted to wait until we saw (one of) her Harley look.
I was struggling a bit to figure out what I was going to do with the background/layout and then I figured a playing card motif is a good, safe bet. I may draw one of Joker and use the same layout, only with a “J” and a different symbol
 
Matt.S99 said:
I cheated a bit and had actually sketched out the face around the time she was first announced in the role, but wanted to wait until we saw (one of) her Harley look.
I was struggling a bit to figure out what I was going to do with the background/layout and then I figured a playing card motif is a good, safe bet. I may draw one of Joker and use the same layout, only with a “J” and a different symbol
Click to expand...
Looks spot on :up: Hope you post the Joker pic when you're done.
 
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Was Arkham on an island in the last movie? I thought it was in downtown Gotham.
 
Not that I think there will be or even should be a Batman in this universe, but I was thinking, if there *was*, and since this is a very different world than we are used to seeing, maybe this would be a cool universe to do a very different take on Batman, like the Aronofsky version. Bruce losing his inheritance in some way.

I don’t know. Just thinking out loud. It’s a very interesting world they’ve built and I wonder what a character like Batman would look like in it.


It’s funny, because the (mostly) low tech version we saw in The Batman is pretty much what I would picture on this world.
 
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Bruce wouldn't necessarily have to lose his inheritance (I always thought that idea was kind of dumb in Aronofsky's part, if he wanted to have a homeless Batman he should've been homeless from the get-go) but the general vibe is probably what that would be like. I'm kinda curious as well, especially because even tho Reeves Batman is a bit more heightened, it's still on a very similar wavelength to this Joker, down to them both drawing a lot from Taxi Driver and 70s films. It'd definitely be a challenge for Phillips to create a Batman that's distinct enough to justify its existence (tho granted, the billion dollars that a Batman vs Joaquin Joker would make would be more than enough)

I don't even think it's a matter of "Oh, it'd be so difficult to imagine a Batman in this world". Based on what we've seen of it there's no reason to think Batman couldn't exist, it's more of a matter of "A lot of the cool ways they could've taken to present Batman here have already been taken up by Matt Reeves, so what is there left to do?"

They could do the homeless take, but it kinda loses a bit of the 1% aristocratic angle vs. 99% populist Joker angle they clearly wanna go for this on this.

Frankly if I was a WBD executive I'd be frustrated over the fact that at no point of either Joker or The Batman's development no one even entertained the idea of trying to link both projects together lmao They both went for very similar ideas and concepts that I think that if there had been an attempt to pair them up together during the veeery early screenwriting process for both of these maybe they could've merged them together. At some point it obviously became impossible, but the fact they didn't even attempt to at least chat with Reeves or Phillips back in 2017 when nothing was set on stone about it really goes to showcase how much of a mess DC was at the time. From a purely business perspective, can you imagine if 2019 Joker was a direct prequel to The Batman, and The Batman was actively marketed as a sort of sequel? The numbers would've been gigantic.

The idea of having these bunch of separate elseworlds sounds good on paper but it really is kind of a problem that projects can't actively support each other in that way and in the case of The Batman/Joker they cross wires in extraordinarily bizarre paths. For the general moviegoer the idea of having a Batman franchise going on that's separate from the Joker franchise at the same time is just so bizarre. I'm not even sure how many actually realize that The Batman is supposed to be an entirely different universe, my cousin was quite confused lmao It's such an extraordinarily strange situation that Gunn/Safran have to be carrying around.
 
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I mean, real life "superheroes" do exist. Just look at the story of Bromley Batman or "The Shadow", a real life costumed vigilante that patrolled London for 3 years and actually did save some people muggers. I think Phillips' Batman could be something similar to that.
 
Invader Joker said:
Bruce wouldn't necessarily have to lose his inheritance (I always thought that idea was kind of dumb in Aronofsky's part, if he wanted to have a homeless Batman he should've been homeless from the get-go) but the general vibe is probably what that would be like. I'm kinda curious as well, especially because even tho Reeves Batman is a bit more heightened, it's still on a very similar wavelength to this Joker, down to them both drawing a lot from Taxi Driver and 70s films. It'd definitely be a challenge for Phillips to create a Batman that's distinct enough to justify its existence (tho granted, the billion dollars that a Batman vs Joaquin Joker would make would be more than enough)

I don't even think it's a matter of "Oh, it'd be so difficult to imagine a Batman in this world". Based on what we've seen of it there's no reason to think Batman couldn't exist, it's more of a matter of "A lot of the cool ways they could've taken to present Batman here have already been taken up by Matt Reeves, so what is there left to do?"

They could do the homeless take, but it kinda loses a bit of the 1% aristocratic angle vs. 99% populist Joker angle they clearly wanna go for this on this.

Frankly if I was a WBD executive I'd be frustrated over the fact that at no point of either Joker or The Batman's development no one even entertained the idea of trying to link both projects together lmao They both went for very similar ideas and concepts that I think that if there had been an attempt to pair them up together during the veeery early screenwriting process for both of these maybe they could've merged them together. At some point it obviously became impossible, but the fact they didn't even attempt to at least chat with Reeves or Phillips back in 2017 when nothing was set on stone about it really goes to showcase how much of a mess DC was at the time. From a purely business perspective, can you imagine if 2019 Joker was a direct prequel to The Batman, and The Batman was actively marketed as a sort of sequel? The numbers would've been gigantic.

The idea of having these bunch of separate elseworlds sounds good on paper but it really is kind of a problem that projects can't actively support each other in that way and in the case of The Batman/Joker they cross wires in extraordinarily bizarre paths. For the general moviegoer the idea of having a Batman franchise going on that's separate from the Joker franchise at the same time is just so bizarre. I'm not even sure how many actually realize that The Batman is supposed to be an entirely different universe, my cousin was quite confused lmao It's such an extraordinarily strange situation that Gunn/Safran have to be carrying around.
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Yeah, if they had better planning, the two could have worked perfectly hand in hand. A bit of a missed opportunity, but at the same time, it’s always fun to see new versions of these characters and I look forward to seeing how Reeves does with his Joker.

If both films weren’t so similar in their aesthetics and influences, it would be easier to separate the two. But it’s really funny how both of these versions came out at relatively the same time, yet are unconnected. You can really see how they could connect with just a few changes here and there.

At this point, I don’t see how Batman could pop up in the Joker films since they already introduced Bruce and he was a very young child. Suddenly those “Batman beats up old people” jokes is a real thing.
Unless their version wasn’t Bruce Wayne, but I don’t think that would fly. Even in an Elseworlds film, a live action Batman not being Bruce Wayne but fighting Bruce’s villains sounds wild.

To your last point, I totally get what you’re saying, but I think if they play their cards right, DC could have the upper hand with this Elseworlds brand. I personally think it’s a great idea and I hope it remains as successful as it has been so far (with Joker and The Batman). Some people may need a bit more hand holding to understand all the different pathways, but I have still heard people asking things like, “I’ve never seen the Marvel films. Can I watch MoM and understand it?” And that’s the MCU which is so ridiculously popular, so some people are just a lost cause in that regard. :hilarious:


Hollis Mason said:
I mean, real life "superheroes" do exist. Just look at the story of Bromley Batman or "The Shadow", a real life costumed vigilante that patrolled London for 3 years and actually did save some people muggers. I think Phillips' Batman could be something similar to that.
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Oh wow, I had no clue about this. Just read up on it, very cool!

yeah they could do something similar. Since it is technically a Joker film, maybe we really don’t see Batman much and only see him from Joker’s perspective. No going into Batman’s backstory or anything. That’s the only way I can see them possibly introducing him. I’m sure they can come up with something else, too.
 
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Matt.S99 said:
Since it is technically a Joker film, maybe we really don’t see Batman much and only see him from Joker’s perspective. No going into Batman’s backstory or anything. That’s the only way I can see them possibly introducing him. I’m sure they can come up with something else, too.
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Maybe the Batman in Joker's world could be strictly a horrific nightmarish Bat-type figure in Arthur's hallucinations, in the same way that the mysterious figure stalked Bruce Lee's dreams in Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story (1993, starring Jason Scott Lee).
 
Matt.S99 said:
Yeah, if they had better planning, the two could have worked perfectly hand in hand. A bit of a missed opportunity, but at the same time, it’s always fun to see new versions of these characters and I look forward to seeing how Reeves does with his Joker.

If both films weren’t so similar in their aesthetics and influences, it would be easier to separate the two. But it’s really funny how both of these versions came out at relatively the same time, yet are unconnected. You can really see how they could connect with just a few changes here and there.

At this point, I don’t see how Batman could pop up in the Joker films since they already introduced Bruce and he was a very young child. Suddenly those “Batman beats up old people” jokes is a real thing.
Click to expand...
To be honest I've never felt the age thing was ever a problem.
Arthur is presumably in his 30s in the movie, so it's a 25 year difference? Meaning that when Batman is 30 Joker would be 55 which is fine.
I've long said the physical aspect of their dynamic is the most irrelevant one too. Joker is more of a cerebral and philosophical threat to Batman, so even if Joker was 60 I don't think that really changes much about how he operates. Especially when this version has been established as having an army of followers.
And I mean, Keaton and Nicholson had quite the sizeable age gap and no one cared about that.
 
This is my most anticipated comic book movie by far. Harley looks straight outta BOP (2003) but I dig the look!

I hope Joker gets a second makeup design and a new suit
 
I want Batman to be kept as far away from these movies as possible, to be honest. Let this world be the Gotham that doesn't have Batman to protect it, because its not a comic book world.
 
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