Marvel vs. DC: MUA and JLH article help

[Johnny DC]

Note: You may have seen this tread in other forums. Don’t panic, I have permission from Dew. It’s in the Community, Misc. and Multiplatform Games, DC Comic and Marvel Comic forums.

Here’s the deal: I’m a journalism major taking a feature writing class. A story idea I submitted to my teacher involved getting fan reactions to the rivalry between Marvel and DC Comics, extending into their publications, films and most recently video games (with Justice League Heroes and Marvel Ultimate Alliance being released within a week of each other). I would like to get some angles and quotes from Hype members since I don't personally know too many comic fans. All intelligent comments are welcome, though I won’t use all of them in my story.

Here’s the catch: I need to know you’re real name. And I need to know your phone number. It’s my school’s journalism department’s policy that each story turned in for a journalism class needs an addendum listing the names and numbers of all sources used so the teacher can call them and make sure that 1) they exist and 2) that they actually said what I quoted them as saying in the story.

I'm aware that many would be uncomfortable with this, but I can assure you, I'm a professional; I’m an intern/general assignment writer for a major daily Colorado newspaper (though, remember this is for a class, so the article I write won’t be published.). While it's difficult to prove credentials over the Web, I'll try. If you’re someone I want to use in the story, I’ll PM you my work e-mail address. If you need further proof, I have ways to prove I am who I am.

Here’s the topic: DC Comics vs. Marvel Comics and the mediums they compete in. Remember, the timeliness of the story will focus on the release of the rival video games, so if you’ve played Justice League Heroes, make sure to comment on it. I realize that Marvel: Ultimate Alliance won’t be in stores until Wednesday, the same day my story is due. Still make sure to comment on your impressions. My lead will be something like: “Marvel: Ultimate Alliance hits shelves today…rival comic company DC Comics released their version last week,” blah, blah, blah.

Help me Hypesters. You’re my only hope.

 

[Johnny DC]

I'll get the ball rolling:
Which publisher has better comics right now? What about in the past?
Which has better movies?
Which has better games?

 

[XwolverineX]

I'll get the ball rolling:
Which publisher has better comics right now? What about in the past?
Which has better movies?
Which has better games?

Comics: DC
Movies: =
Games: Marvel

 

[Johnny DC]

But why?

 

[Axid]

Comics: I don't read many of those. Pass

Games: Definitely Marvel. Pretty much all Marvel games published are high quality, well built games that achieve a lot of success, both in positive reaction/reviews and sales. The same can't really be said about DC games (Batman Begin's downsyndrome run & Catwoman's.........Christ, it's Catwoman)

Movies: Once again I have to lean towards Marvel. I really enjoyed the Spider-Man, Blade, and X-Men movies, and Fantastic Four was a fun movie. Spider-Man and X-Men really blend a number of genres together and have elements/issues in them that people can actually relate to their lives. Overall though they are very fun movies to watch and are put together well. But after releases like Batman Begins and Superman Returns, I think there may be a bigger competition forming.

 

[XwolverineX]

Comics: I don't read many of those. Pass

Games: Definitely Marvel. Pretty much all Marvel games published are high quality, well built games that achieve a lot of success, both in positive reaction/reviews and sales. The same can't really be said about DC games (Batman Begin's downsyndrome run & Catwoman's.........Christ, it's Catwoman)

Movies: Once again I have to lean towards Marvel. I really enjoyed the Spider-Man, Blade, and X-Men movies, and Fantastic Four was a fun movie. Spider-Man and X-Men really blend a number of genres together and have elements/issues in them that people can actually relate to their lives. Overall though they are very fun movies to watch and are put together well. But after releases like Batman Begins and Superman Returns, I think there may be a bigger competition forming.

Well, if you did, you'd know DC is far superior.

Agreed.


I didn't like Fantastic Four, at all.. I hated Hulk. Daredevil, uyck. The Marvel movies I like are Spider-man, X-men and Blade. All 3(and almost 3) movies in. DC movies that are good are Batman Begins and Superman Returns(in the last 10 years), but they're both only one movie in. Right now, I guess Marvel. DC will soon take over that regin though.

 

[XwolverineX]

But why?

Games are obvious, every single DC game has sucked. Spider-man 2, Hulk:UD, XML 1&2 = All good.

Comics, IC was superb. HoM and CW are characterization spitting on ****. NA is crap, utter crap. Spider-man got ruined. Plus, DC has Vertigo. Fables, Y:The Last Man, etc, are some of the best comics out there.

 

[Johnny DC]

I forgot to mention television shows.

 

[SouLeSS]

I'll answer everything you need to know, just get my personal info via a PM.

Which is better;

Comics: As of right now, I find myself enjoying Marvel more than DC. Around the time of Infinite Crisis I was enjoying DC much more. With Annihilation, Planet Hulk and Civil War, dispite Civil War's characterizations, I'm more engrossed with the characters and what is going on in their lives than say whats happening in the Bat-Family.

Thats not to say that I don't care about the Bat-Family, I do. I guess I'm attracted to the thought of epic crossovers, dispite that I don't like the fact that they require a grandious amount of backreading or sidereading to keep on with the knowhow.

My bottem line? At current, Marvel. Though I'm known to go back and forth, depending on the writers, the story arcs, and the events that are going on.

Games: Generally speaking, I have more Marvel games than DC. However, I do feel that Marvel is better for the simple fact that they have had more gaming exposure compared to DC. A perfect example of this would be X-Men Legends 1 and 2 as well as Marvel: Ultimate Alliance. If you were to put it into perspective, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance is heavily based on X-Men Legends 1 and 2, which were both excellent games.

The problem with DC and why people have no faith, for lack of better saying, is they are significantly behind. Justice League Heros is being unfairly compared to Marvel: Ultimate Alliance. In retrospect, Justice League Heros is a much better game than X-Men Legends 1, which is should be rightly compared to. Many will refute this and say that because they are comming out around the same time, that they should be compared but that simply isn't true. The creaters of Marvel: Ultimate Alliance have had two previous chances to get it right, while the creators of Justice League Heros are on their debut game.

Bottom Line: Marvel, though I feel that with time, DC will pull ahead. Afterall, the Superman Returns game is shaping to be an excellent game and we can definatly look forward to a sequel to Justice League Heros.

Movies: Honestly, I'm sick of seeing superhero movies. And with talks of movies based on characters that people hardly know (Namor, Ant-Man, ect.) I feel that the general media is soon to be sick of them. I hold a personal bias though, as I am a huge Heath Ledger and Christian Bale fan, both of whom are set to appear in the upcomming Batman film: The Dark Knight.

It appears as if Marvel has an overexposue in comic movies, which again gives them an upper hand. Tobey McGuire, Kristian Dunst, Jennifer Garner, Ben Afleck and Michael Clark Duncan are major names in Hollywood. And thats only from two movies. I didn't even MENTION the huge names of the X-Men franchise. Marvel has had more Superhero movies comming out from them in the past 7 years, and as such there is more to like and more to dislike.

Bottom Line: DC, because I'm very biased with Christian Bale and Heath Ledger. Though I feel if you were to look at it with the general perspective of an average viewer, you'de find a more Marvel oriented group.

Television: Batman: The Animated Series was the best superhero cartoon ever made, and mosty likely ever to be made. And no, I'm not some rabbid fanboy. It had many horrible episodes, but it also had many very high quality episodes.

I'm too biased to give a fair thought on the subject though, so I'll skip that.

Hope I helped, and if you need anything else, I'll keep helping.

 

[XwolverineX]

I forgot to mention television shows.

Zomg, fool.


TV.. Spider-man TAS was cool. X-men TAS was good. But DC still takes the cake. Batman TAS was best, Superman TAS was awesome also. Then JLA comes in, and kicks the **** out of everything Marvel. Plus, Smallville is pretty good.

 

[drmick]

Here’s the catch: I need to know you’re real name. And I need to know your phone number. It’s my school’s journalism department’s policy that each story turned in for a journalism class needs an addendum listing the names and numbers of all sources used so the teacher can call them and make sure that 1) they exist and 2) that they actually said what I quoted them as saying in the story.

Help me Hypesters. You’re my only hope.

Journalism, eh? I hope your editor would see the blatant misspelling in the first sentence of the above paragraph! And comment on the unnecessary length of the third sentence.

 

[Ravensford]

Which publisher has better comics right now? I can't respond on current comics. I actually stopped collecting in the mid '90's.

What about in the past? I was a long time collector (circa '82) starting with GI Joe #1 & Transformers #1. From there I branched out into other titles, starting with Uncanny X and going from there. At one point I had a $100 per month habit. I was a college student and the combination of skyrocketing prices ($3.50/comic) and overblown cross-overs killed it for me.

Which has better movies? Back in the 80's & 90's DC was all over the films. Unfortunately Marvel never really got out of the gate (Dolph Lundgren as the Punisher? David Hasselhoff as Nick Fury?) and then DC killed the comic book movie with their over the top Batman flicks. Now, it's all Marvel. Not every Marvel flick is great, but I can't actually call any of them truely aweful. That said, Batman Begins put the heart back into that series and Superman Returns seemed a bit overbudget for what we got, but is also a decent flick. I'm looking forward to whatever extended version we have coming from Brian Singer

Which has better games? On this again it's Marvel all the way. Granted, that may be due to the profusion of games, but the quality is there. DC has tried to ride the coattails, but the quality just hasn't been up to par. While Justice League Heroes seems to be a decent offering, it's not up to the level of Xmen Legends II.

That being said, I did try, several times to get into DC comics. The Fall of the Batman, The Death of Superman and a number of singles that came before that, so many of the characters had been retconned in so many ways at that point (beyond the whole Infinite Crisis storyline) that I just couldn't get and stay interested in any character or story. And this from the guy who loved the '80's Saturday morning trulyawfulover-budgetJustice League cartoon and dressed up as Aquaman for Halloween (many years ago and no there aren't any pictures for blackmail).

I hope that this helps your story. Please PM me for contact info and I'll be happy to provide.

Regards,

Raven

 

[Johnny DC]

More questions:

When do you think the rivalry between Marvel and DC began?
Why do you think it began?
Did it ever die off?

 

[Johnny DC]

Here's what my comic-book reading friend, Matt, wrote to me in an e-mail. Maybe it'll spark some feedback:

I've always been skeptical of the rivalry. I think it's something perpetuated by the real fan boys and no one else. Personally, I think the idea of a rivalry came at an end in the mid-90's with the DC vs. Marvel series and since then it's been more about making money.

Both companies, creatively and financially, have come to similar parallels. Ideas are stolen and re-furbished in both universes without shame and it's no one's fault as writers shift from company to company on a yearly basis.

The money isn't made from the comics anymore. Obviously it is still a big part of the industry, but the merchandising, movies, and cartoons dwarf anything the comics might do. You can have 11 year old children who proudly don a Batman Halloween mask and backpack and have no idea that Batman is actually a comic book character. So, that said, I guess the real rivalry lies in how you can market the actual comic book characters to a real world audience.

As for the summertime blockbuster arcs, there is still a level of competition there. Often times the summer arcs are so full of malarkey and they even lack creativity. The are ideas recycled in order to re-create characters to either make them more reader-friendly (or, in other words, capital-friendly). The Infinite Crisis storyline was fantastic in it's crossover title build, but in the end failed to deliver some sort of finite "impact" development. In my opinion, that's not such a bad thing: you can't totally shift a universe in a seven-issue blockbuster arc. So DC developed 52 so that they could flesh out characters. They avoided the pratfalls of some sci-fi catastrophe infecting a "world" that has become far more secular and easy-to-relate to the readers. With 52, the writers have put the impact of such an event into a human form so as not to scare away the casual reader.

I don't know the numbers off of the top of my head, but assuredly, Civil War has received less acclaim and publicity. It's an idea toyed with the X-Men in it's hay day and the unmasking of such high-profile cash cow characters seems a bit like ruining a good thing. Marvel has always failed to deliver in most of their blockbusters, especially in the last few years, and I feel they rely a bit too much on the re-boot aspect to benefit their numbers.

That said, DC has the upper hand with their comics. They have iconic figures and for years have seemed to dominate the marketing world. Marvel pioneered the "blur the line" heroes with Chris Claremont and Jim Steranko. DC, in my opinion, failed to replicate such a thing until two years ago with the Identity Crisis line.

The real rivalry is in the movies, the merchandising, and the marketing to outside audiences. As long as DC has Superman leading the charge, it will have a sort of mythical edge over the rest of the comic book industry. But honestly, as long as each company is making money and seems to bandy around the same ideas, I struggle to see if the rivalry is what shapes the business and gives either company a competitive edge. I think the creativity has been shutdown, while complacency and playing it safe are coddled. No company gains a fiscal edge unless a movie is released in a certain business quarter. Other than that, the comic book industry remains stagnant.

But hey, it's a necessary evil to keep the medium around.

 

[XwolverineX]

More questions:

When do you think the rivalry between Marvel and DC began?
Why do you think it began?
Did it ever die off?

Obvious questions. They were, and this are the only two real competitors in that market. It's was an Oligopoly, like Video Games Consoles. It began as soon as both companies were up and running, and it won't die off. Untill one company dies. Or the medium as a whole.

 

[SLVRSR4]

Comics some titles i love equally I do read more Marvel though since i am poor and felt they were easier to jump into.

Along with films i would say DC has the best batman the rest terrible. Marvel has had some good ones and has had blade 2!

In games Marvel easily more games means one has to be good but Xmlegends is the onlything they have goin for them. So if Dc could come out with a better JLA game

 

[Johnny DC]

Well, I just turned the article into my teacher. Only one person sent me their info (thanks BrianWilly ), so I had to change the viewpoint of my story from a news feature to a participatory feature, of sorts. Basically, I put myself into it. I was up until 4:15 a.m. writing it.
Thanks to everyone who commented, especially to BrianWilly (again), Dew k. Mosi, hippie_hunter, Ben Urich, XwolverineX, Axid, Souless, Ravensford, and everyone elso who commented. If I could have used something from everyone, I would have.
Here’s the story I turned in, sans BrianWilly’s real name and location. You’ll notice the ending is a little abrupt—it couldn’t exceed three pages double spaced. Be gentle if you find errors; remember I had a late night:

Being a twin, I know a little something about rivalry. My brother Joseph and I will take opposite sides on almost anything just to be different. But of all our petty squabbles, we’re renown among our friends and family for our blind devotion to two separate comic book publishers: Marvel and DC comics.

They have a rivalry too.

Marvel Comics consists of Spider-Man, the X-Men and the Hulk among other characters; its universe of heroes and villains considered more realistic and angst-ridden by critics and fans. DC Comics has the iconic superheroes: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc., who live in a world of imaginary cities such as Metropolis and Gotham. I prefer the latter company, my twin brother Joseph, the former, and our debates can sometimes become as heated as the competition between the two publishers.

Both have vied to be No. 1 in comic book sales since before World War II. Nowadays, the rivalry goes beyond comics, stretching into the film and television industry.

And today, with the release of “Marvel: Ultimate Alliance”, that rivalry branches into a new medium: video games.

“‘Marvel: Ultimate Alliance’ is going to rule all,” my brother teased as he pre-ordered it on-line. He’s basing this off of news and footage from video game Web sites such as ign.com and gamespot.com; also, this happens to be a sequel of sorts to two other video games: “X-Men Legends” and “X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse.” The X-Men titles were four-player role-playing games featuring everyone’s favorite mutants. “Marvel: Ultimate Alliance” extends into the entire Marvel universe—over 140 characters will appear in the game.

DC Comics came out with their version last Wednesday: “Justice League Heroes,” which has over 10 playable characters, many of which are DC’s most iconic, including the three mentioned earlier and the Flash, Green Lantern and Aquaman.

I managed to pick up my store’s final copy. While I enjoyed it along with other fans, the game’s mediocre response won’t be able to compete with the giant that “Marvel: Ultimate Alliance” is.

BrianWilly, 23, of The Church of Joss has also played “Justice League Heroes.”

“It's not nearly as versatile as the X-Men Legends series and also unfortunately much shorter, but it's about three degrees more enjoyable,” BrianWilly said in an Internet message board discussing the rivalry. “However, I suspect that (“Marvel: Ultimate Alliance&#8221 will probably blow it out of the water. The graphics look really good, the game play looks smoother.”

But as far as comic books go, BrianWilly sides with DC Comics.

“In terms of comics quality, DC has been ahead of the game for quite some years now. In my opinion they focus substantially more on storytelling and characterization, as opposed to Marvel which is focusing purely on shock and glitz.”

In regards to the rivalry, BrianWilly admits it’s essentially a fight over nothing.

“I say that right now DC's got better books, but that could change at any point. The companies swap artists, writers, and editors all the time; as much as the characters may be a draw, those are the people who truly make or break the companies.”

My friend Matt Southard, 23, of Northglenn, Colo., agrees. He’s been reading comics for about 15 years.

“Both companies, creatively and financially, have come to similar parallels. Ideas are stolen and re-furbished in both universes without shame and it's no one's fault as writers shift from company to company on a yearly basis,” Southard said, who also believes that the rivalry is mainly in making profit.

“The money isn't made from the comics anymore,” Southard said. “Obviously it is still a big part of the industry, but the merchandising, movies, and cartoons dwarf anything the comics might do.”

Marvel’s “X-Men: The Last Stand” hit theaters earlier this year and has grossed over $400 million worldwide, according to boxofficemojo.com. Its competition, DC’s summer blockbuster “Superman Returns,” has been trailing, having made just under $400 million so far.

Last year was a different story; “Batman Begins” has made roughly $40 million more than Marvel’s “Fantastic Four.” I’ll usually tend to fall back on that fact in debates with Joseph, along with the fact that DC has a firm grasp on the television market with hit shows like “Smallville” and the former “Justice League Unlimited.”

But argue as much as we like, Southard remains skeptical on the very notion of a rivalry.

“I think it's something perpetuated by the real fan boys and no one else,” Southard said. “But hey, it's a necessary evil to keep the medium around.”

So until “The Dark Knight,” “Batman Begins’” sequel, comes out in the summer of 2008 (to compete with whatever summer blockbuster Marvel shells out on a yearly basis), I imagine I’ll be coming up with plenty of reasons as to why “Justice League Heroes” is better than “Marvel: Ultimate Alliance.”

Oh yeah, and remember: plagiarizing is the devil

 

[XwolverineX]

I didn't read it all, too lazy, but I skimmed it. Your vocabulary was pretty good.

 

[Johnny DC]

Thanks That's a real compliment.