The Dark Knight Rises The Fire Rises - Gotham as a Forest

[Rocketman]

I figured (if it's alright) we could discuss the symbolism of Gotham as a "forest" that is about to be purged - and, why I think that [BLACKOUT]Gotham might be destroyed by the end of this movie, No Man's Land style.[/BLACKOUT]

Not sure if it's been discussed, but I recently watched TDK again and was amazed by how some of Alfred's lines tie into BB so perfectly, especially in a scene that is so similar to one in BB's.

For me, reading all of this together is somewhat haunting:

Batman Begins:

Ra's al Ghul: When a forest grows too wild a purging fire is inevitable and natural. Tomorrow, the world will watch in horror as its greatest city destroys itself. The movement back to harmony will be unstoppable this time.

The Dark Knight:

Alfred: A long time ago, I was in Burma, my friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the loyalty of tribal leaders by bribing them with precious stones. But their caravans were being raided in a forest north of Rangoon by a bandit. So we went looking for the stones. But in six months, we never found anyone who traded with him. One day I saw a child playing with a ruby the size of a tangerine. The bandit had been throwing them away.

Bruce: Then why steal them?

Alfred: Because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

Bruce: The bandit, in the forest in Burma, did you catch him?

Alfred: Yes.

Bruce: How?

Alfred: We burned the forest down.

The Dark Knight Rises:

Follower: Have we started the fire?

Bane: The Fire Rises.

Obviously, the Nolans are aware of a connection between these things. And as far as the "fire" goes, it could be in reference to Bane and his followers as a cult that rises, and their mission as being the destruction of Gotham with the help of Dr. Pavel. Bane's ultimate plan is clearly to destroy Gotham by using the "Doomsday Device"/bomb (or whatever it is), and that is the ultimate obstacle that Batman has to face: saving Gotham. That's what his mission has always been.

But what if Bane actually wins?

Alfred, in reference to capturing the bandit, said that they had to burn the forest down in order to stop him. This was related to the Joker. The only way for Batman to really stop The Joker is to let Gotham crumble completely until it's just Batman and Joker left standing face to face among all the rubble. This time, it's Bane.

I wish I could articulate this more eloquently, so hopefully you guys can take a crack at what I'm attempting to say. If anyone has any other references regarding forests, fire, and broken societies/cities (in literature, history, poetry, etc.), I think this could get interesting.

 

[.:TheDarkKnight]

Judging strictly by the title of the film, I don't see the entire city being destroyed. That being said, I still expect Bane to beat the **** out of Batman and leave Gotham in complete chaos.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I really doubt Gotham is going to be destroyed by the end since this is Nolan's final Batman film and I doubt anyone would like an ending where Gotham is destroyed since it would mean that Batman failed.

 

[herolee10]

I really doubt Gotham is going to be destroyed by the end since this is Nolan's final Batman film and I doubt anyone would like an ending where Gotham is destroyed since it would mean that Batman failed.

Maybe Nolan is going for a "Noah's Arc" type of theme here where the current Gotham is presented as being beyond repair and that a new Gotham is indeed in order; so while the people are saved, the city is mostly destroyed so that they can rebuild it with new foundations, both physically and metaphorically.

 

[Rocketman]

Maybe Nolan is going for a "Noah's Arc" type of theme here where the current Gotham is presented as being beyond repair and that a new Gotham is indeed in order; so while the people are saved, the city is mostly destroyed so that they can rebuild it with new foundations, both physically and metaphorically.

That's excellent.

When the new Gotham is fully built, Batman will be its protector, hence, he has risen.

Nolan tears the franchise down again, kills it.
A new director has to re-build it again, and start from scratch.

Also, this has Watchmen written all over it.

 

[herolee10]

That's excellent.

When the new Gotham is fully built, Batman will be its protector, hence, he has risen.

Nolan tears the franchise down again, kills it.
A new director has to re-build it again, start from scratch.

lol; well either that, or they may try to go with the idea that "Batman" was able to rid Gotham of the threats that plagued it once and for all as Old Gotham perished, and that Bruce will able to hang up the costume for good and help New Gotham in the ways that his Father once did without having to worry about outside or domestic threats rising anymore.

 

[Rocketman]

That's good too.

Bruce hangs up the suit permanently, and now, as just Bruce Wayne, he dedicates his fortune to philanthropic efforts and helps rebuild Gotham.

"Batman" as a symbol rises, and is never seen again. Bruce Wayne becomes the hero that he never could be as Batman.

 

[Frontier]

Or perhaps, to save Gotham from total destruction, Batman (and thus Bruce Wayne) must make the ultimate sacrifice? And in doing so, in dieing for the cause, becomes the ultimate symbol that galvanizes the people?

What is a more powerful symbol than a martyr, after all?

I could see an ending where we have an older Gordon giving another eulogy-speech... where we pull back to reveal a large statue of Batman, and then we pan from head to toe before going around to the back and panning up to reveal the other side of the statue is Bruce Wayne.

"He saved more than our city. He saved more than our lives. He saved our sense of humanity and self-worth."

I doubt such an ending, but... could be cool.

Batman dies saving Gotham, and the people, always having given in to fear and chaos, are so shocked by the revelation that Bruce Wayne, a man who had everything and was one of the powerful elite, had given everything of himself including his own life to save the people from the killers and thieves, that they as a whole become the white knight Gotham needs.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

I could see an ending where we have an older Gordon giving another eulogy-speech... where we pull back to reveal a large statue of Batman, and then we pan from head to toe before going around to the back and panning up to reveal the other side of the statue is Bruce Wayne.