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We Wish The Wrestling Thread The Best In All Its Future Endeavors. - Part 9

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:funny: Any other wrestler would be turned at this point

Yeah, and it's been time to turn Cena for a while. Nevermind just crowd reactions--his bit became stale. They really should have turned him during the whole Nexus debacle.

I wonder if they're not doing it because they have nobody to fill that spot with the younger fans, though.
 
I've lost all hope of a heel turn. As Long as the kids and women eat the merchandise he'll stay face.
 
I found that Orton got over in spite of HHH. Shawn Michaels was always much more giving to Orton. HHH has lost to him but it was almost always through screwy circumstances where HHH had an excuse.
Hm, I suppose my memory is a bit foggy on the subject, so I'll take your word for it.

Sheamus won their last match but not before he had to atack HHH before the match and give him nerve damage. It was an extreme rules match where HHH would have been protected so I didn't see the need to add ANOTHER excuse for HHH's loss.
Yeah, can't argue with that.
 
the thing is i think wwe doesn't view's Punk as a guy to carry the company he doesn't have the cookie cutter look that miz and cena have.

He reminds me of jericho a guy who can easily pop in Main event scene with guys like cena/randy/hhh/taker and get a title run here and there but not a constant top guy and will feud with mid card talent if need be.

That's exactly what I said a few pages back.
 
Sheamus just sort of showed up one day, being Sheamus.

Sheamus is a well rounded performer. I saw him at a house show before he showed up on tv and thought he was pretty good. I'm glad he's not a flash in the pan and could be a top guy again.



There's really no one that could take Cena's place right now.
 
I've lost all hope of a heel turn. As Long as the kids and women eat the merchandise he'll stay face.

The time to do it would have been now.

With him getting boo'd out of the building at Wrestlemania, this would have been the time to have him turn his back on the fanbase.

But instead, we get John Cena, not even mad that he got screwed out of a title, pleading with The Rock to give the fans - the same fans that are booing him out of the building - what they want.

Le sigh.
 
The time to do it would have been now.

With him getting boo'd out of the building at Wrestlemania, this would have been the time to have him turn his back on the fanbase.

But instead, we get John Cena, not even mad that he got screwed out of a title, pleading with The Rock to give the fans - the same fans that are booing him out of the building - what they want.

Le sigh.


Not mad at all in fact I think he congratulated Miz..
 
Just a random note, I was watching Marcel's Quantum Kitchen (don't judge me) and one of the stock songs used was Chris Master's entrance theme.
 
The face issue is a problem for WWE because the crowds these days are so intentionally difficult, they get a kick out of booing the face, and it's hard for faces to get over because they are so restrained on the mic these days, and the default mode is to make all nice guys like Cena and Rey.

Now while I don't care for Orton as a face I think the fact they have not neutered him has led to the crowd staying with him, so hopefully WWE will take the shackles off for future face pushes.

I think there are some smarks who get off booing the nice guy, but I don't think those people are enough to determine that you can't do a face right. Things just have to change like with the Attitude era. Yeah I know, people get sick of Attitude Era fans bringing it up, but one thing it got right was changing the faces so that the crowd got what it wanted. Austin was supposed to be a heel but got cheered. The Rock was supposed to be a heel, but he got cheered. DX went from heels to big time faces because of fans changing their interests. People have been tired of the friendly babyface act for a while, so they gotta give the fans something different.

With Orton it's worked well because of what you said. He still does the same things he did as a heel, but now it is to the heels. They gotta figure out what this generation want as faces so that ratings and ppv buys can rise again. I've wanted Cena a heel for years because I used to just love him when he was the Doctor of Thuganomics, but even as a face he can be better than what he is now. I respect the guy's talent and skill, but I want to be entertained. Maybe they need to let him loose instead of typing him down with the script.

A problem wwe will suffer with rock/cena is most internet attitude era type fans hate cena and so do quite a few wwe fans and probably want the rock to win and he absolutely shouldn't this should be a passing of the torch much like rock/hogan was and rock will be gone after mania while cena who s about 33 will be there for several more years and when cena wins they may hate him even more.

As much as I love The Rock and hate Cena's past five years, there is no reason for The Rock to go over Cena. Fans can ***** if they want, but Cena is your top star that's going to be around for years barring injury. The Rock at his height was bigger than Cena will probably ever be, but he hasn't done anything in about seven years. People can get pissed all they want, but it makes way more sense for Cena to win.
 
Not mad at all in fact I think he congratulated Miz..

When they advertised John Cena calling out The Rock, I thought he was gonna, you know, actually call him out.

Not talk about how awesome he is and that The Rock and Cena should have a match in a year for the people.

I didn't boo Cena at Wrestlemania, I didn't take part in the "Cena sucks" chants, and I won't boo Cena. I like Cena.

But jebus man. Cena now isn't the Cena that I grew to like. I remember the battles that Cena had with JBL, and how intense Cena was. He was the perfect balance between the hero and a badass with intensity.

He's losing his intensity and just becoming an ass kisser.
 
Source: WrestlingNewsSource.com

WWE announced on their corporate website that Triple H and Undertaker were fined due to violating the company's policy on chairshots to the head at WrestleMania 27:

"Pursuant to WWE's Concussion policy, the stunt of using a folded metal chair shot to the head is prohibited. Triple H and The Undertaker have both been fined for violating this policy at WrestleMania XXVII. WWE penalizes through fine and/or suspension for violation of this policy, which is unchanged and still in effect"

-----

I bet they were told to do the spot so they could make this "fine" statement and make people think they still give a damn about the health of their employees.
 
I think there are some smarks who get off booing the nice guy, but I don't think those people are enough to determine that you can't do a face right. Things just have to change like with the Attitude era. Yeah I know, people get sick of Attitude Era fans bringing it up, but one thing it got right was changing the faces so that the crowd got what it wanted. Austin was supposed to be a heel but got cheered. The Rock was supposed to be a heel, but he got cheered. DX went from heels to big time faces because of fans changing their interests. People have been tired of the friendly babyface act for a while, so they gotta give the fans something different.

With Orton it's worked well because of what you said. He still does the same things he did as a heel, but now it is to the heels. They gotta figure out what this generation want as faces so that ratings and ppv buys can rise again. I've wanted Cena a heel for years because I used to just love him when he was the Doctor of Thuganomics, but even as a face he can be better than what he is now. I respect the guy's talent and skill, but I want to be entertained. Maybe they need to let him loose instead of typing him down with the script.



As much as I love The Rock and hate Cena's past five years, there is no reason for The Rock to go over Cena. Fans can ***** if they want, but Cena is your top star that's going to be around for years barring injury. The Rock at his height was bigger than Cena will probably ever be, but he hasn't done anything in about seven years. People can get pissed all they want, but it makes way more sense for Cena to win.


i have friends who will watch next year just to see the rock against cena

they will want the rock to win

when the rock loses they definitely will not become regular viewers
 
i have friends who will watch next year just to see the rock against cena

they will want the rock to win

when the rock loses they definitely will not become regular viewers

As much as I like the Rock ( fan since his Maivia days) and dislike Cena, it doesn't make sense for the Rock to win if it is a one-and-done scenario. Cena's part of the roster. Rock isn't. Unless returns for a last run, I'm guessing Cena wins.
 
Ah, I see. I don't know it seems like if you're not a big guy or at least someone who looks like he can dominate then it's much more of an uphill struggle to get to the main event.

Oh yes, if you have a great build and height you already have a foot in the door with Vince that's for sure.

I've always wanted to see this match too. Looking back it's easy to say just do a one off match before he left, but at the time they figured Brock was going to be around for a long time and it would be better to save it for an epic feud down the line. I've read this was supposed to headline WM21 before Brock decided to leave a month before WM20.

I think they purposefully kept them apart so when they eventually did clash it would seem almost like a dream match, with each guy being the top dog on their respective brands for years prior to it. With there being no major game in town besides WWE I think that line of thinking is one of the advantages to the brand extension. They can (if they're smart enough to) keep two guys apart for years at a time so when they finally do meet it's almost like the stars of two different companies locking up. Almost like a corporately manufactured dream match.

Yeah that is what they did, in the same way they did with Cena and Batista before they decided to slingshot it at Summerslam 08. I was booking in hindsight I guess.

It's a shame they make no attempt to do that now, but I suppose they haven't really created two new top guys since Cena and Batista.

icon14.gif
Another great set of picks

Punk vs Michaels was one I wanted badly too. Another one with a simple story. Punk calls out Shawn for his past transgressions. Maybe Shawn calls Punk modern day Jim Baker, a false prophet, and tells him his "religion" is a sham. Could have been absolute gold.

:up:

The characters were so perfect for a feud, Punk would have so much ammo with HBK's past and Shawn would focus on the self righteous hypocrisy of Punk.

I REALLY like the idea of Austin vs Vader. If Vader had been in his prime :wow:

I still think Vince gave up on Vader too soon, he went to Japan after he left the WWE and some great matches against the 4 corners of heaven in his title run.

Yeah Savage vs Rude is EASY to book. Rude wants a shot at Savages WWE title. Then he starts licking his chops for a taste of Ms Elizabeth and tells her to come join a real man. Savage procedes to go nuclear on Rick Rude...possibly for real :funny:

That was what I loved about Savage, you just never knew where the line ended for him. :D

Wasn't Global Warning triple threat as close as we got to an actual HHH vs Lesnar match? I know they put that tour on dvd.

Yep, that was the only time they were in the ring together to my knowledge. I recall the promo between them the night after Summerslam where Brock beat Rock, it set the stage for the potential to come.

Really? I always though they were around the same height. If Savage is shorter it can't be by much. He always looked somewhere between 5'11" and 6'1" to me and Bret looked close to 6 feet tall.

Well there wasn't much in it, maybe it was just the way Savage used to bend his knees a lot when talking.

See, I felt his People's Elbow looked a little mechanical, so I can believe this. There was also the botched... thing on the Raw before Wrestlemania. You know that thing he does where he jumps back to his feet? He didn't quite make it after dropping the elbow on the Miz.

If I had to guess, I'd say he may not be used to wrestling with that much mass on him. Guy is built like a goddamn tank right now.

Yeah he botched the nip up which is not him, he's always slick, and he also struggled pulling off that slingshot irish whip into the DDT on Miz, it could well be the upper body bulk, he's never been that big before, and I also imagine that as great an athlete as he is, 7 years of not doing it would leave even him a little rusty.

As I said, I didn't see the match so I'll defer to your analysis. How did the show as a whole work out? I was entirely disinterested in about half the card--I don't care for Edge, Cena, or Miz, and Morrison was tied up in a gimmick match. Bryan/Sheamus wasn't even a match, I guess, which only leaves Cole/Lawer, HHH/Undertaker, and Rock insulting people as the stuff I'd be interested in.

On a whole I thought it was the worst Wrestlemania ever, so much time was wasted on guff like skits with Pee wee herman, Snoop Dog and Hornswaggle as well as Cena's overblown entrance and allowing Cole vs Lawler to eat up 20 plus minutes in total while being arguably the worst match ever and not even resolving things, while a great young talent like John Morrison got to do just ONE move as he played second fiddle to that rat from the Jersey Shore who the crowd booed out the building.

Add to that the fact I could only reccommend two matches, Orton vs Punk and Rey vs Cody, and even then they weren't of that amazing stand out quality you'd hope for on the years biggest show. Triple H vs Taker is where you'll find differening views, I didn't like it, some did. I'd also say they wasted The Rock by having him doing skits with Pee Wee, Mae Young, Eve and Mean Gene instead of having him interact with the current stars.

Yeah, I think he's pretty solid right now. I think his real advantage is that he walked in, almost immediately, with a strong look and strong character--which is something a lot of guys struggle with for a long, long time (like those early Orton days on Raw). I mean, you look at Cody Rhodes--he's finding that place now, but it took him a few years. Sheamus just sort of showed up one day, being Sheamus.

Exactly, Sheamus stood out from the get go as he doesn't look or sound like he came off the assembly line in Stamford. I'm hoping he'll get on a good roll this year, his potential feud with Sin Cara could provide a good clash of styles match up.
 
I think there are some smarks who get off booing the nice guy, but I don't think those people are enough to determine that you can't do a face right. Things just have to change like with the Attitude era. Yeah I know, people get sick of Attitude Era fans bringing it up, but one thing it got right was changing the faces so that the crowd got what it wanted. Austin was supposed to be a heel but got cheered. The Rock was supposed to be a heel, but he got cheered. DX went from heels to big time faces because of fans changing their interests. People have been tired of the friendly babyface act for a while, so they gotta give the fans something different.

With Orton it's worked well because of what you said. He still does the same things he did as a heel, but now it is to the heels. They gotta figure out what this generation want as faces so that ratings and ppv buys can rise again. I've wanted Cena a heel for years because I used to just love him when he was the Doctor of Thuganomics, but even as a face he can be better than what he is now. I respect the guy's talent and skill, but I want to be entertained. Maybe they need to let him loose instead of typing him down with the script.

Freedom is the biggest issue in general for anyone trying to get over right now, I think Punk has been a good counter point to Vince's over-control of his wrestlers in the last few years, he seems to get freedom with what he says and how he presents himself, and that is so evident when listening to him talk.

I agree that at this point Cena really needs a freshen up if not a heel turn, just something that evolves his character and attempts to extend his fanbase beyond what he has now, because the reactions are going from that mixed powder keg to just a general tiredness of his act.

i have friends who will watch next year just to see the rock against cena

they will want the rock to win

when the rock loses they definitely will not become regular viewers

If Rock wins and then leaves anyway would they become regular viewers?
 
Yeah, and it's been time to turn Cena for a while. Nevermind just crowd reactions--his bit became stale. They really should have turned him during the whole Nexus debacle.

I wonder if they're not doing it because they have nobody to fill that spot with the younger fans, though.

It's partly that they have no one in position to take his place, but it goes beyond the basic show. WWE have created an entire PR arm around Cena and all the charity work and public appearances he does, the guy is a workhorse for promoting the company in a good light, so they will be reluctant to rock that boat by making him a heel, as the next top face they have will have to do more than just win over the fans, he will have to be able to do all of the other stuff that comes with the job, it's part of the reason Miz' push has lasted so long, he's done an awful lot of good work for the WWE on the media circuit and is a natural at that side of things.

Source: WrestlingNewsSource.com

WWE announced on their corporate website that Triple H and Undertaker were fined due to violating the company's policy on chairshots to the head at WrestleMania 27:

"Pursuant to WWE's Concussion policy, the stunt of using a folded metal chair shot to the head is prohibited. Triple H and The Undertaker have both been fined for violating this policy at WrestleMania XXVII. WWE penalizes through fine and/or suspension for violation of this policy, which is unchanged and still in effect"

-----

I bet they were told to do the spot so they could make this "fine" statement and make people think they still give a damn about the health of their employees.

I wondered if anything would come of that, odd that Taker gets fined for being hit with the chair. :funny:
 
I think we can live without direct chair shots to the head. They aren't necessary. It's also why the pileriver was banned.
 
Backstage News on The Rock & WrestleMania 28, HHH's HOF Gift to HBK, More

Posted by Marc Middleton on 04/06/2011

- The April 2nd episode of WWE's AM RAW scored a 0.72 rating with 859,000 viewers.

- Shawn Michaels revealed on Twitter that Triple H's Hall of Fame gift to him this past weekend was a sterling silver, pearl handled, original Colt .45 revolver that was engraved.

- Sources report that there was a massive last-minute re-write of RAW on Monday afternoon. Early in the afternoon, they were going with Triple H vs. The Undertaker at SummerSlam and Taker vs. John Cena at WrestleMania 28. A few hours later they made The Rock vs. Cena announcement, which is a significant change within just a few hours.

There's a feeling that the long-term plan has always been to build WrestleMania 28 around The Rock, even if he wouldn't agree to wrestle. This could have played a factor in WWE's decision to choose Miami as the host city. It's possible that Rock will also go into the Hall of Fame next year.

Partial source: F4Wonline.com
Some of us speculated on HHH vs Taker at Summerslam. I hope that still happens. Or at HITC. or both.

Sounds like Hunter Rider may have been right about the Rock. If the early plan was Cena vs Taker for WM28 then Rock must have changed his mind and decided to wrestle one last match VERY recently. Or they were going to do Rock vs Cena at Summerslam and decided it would be better to hold it for Wrestlemania.


- It's said that Vince McMahon was out of his mind this weekend in Atlanta, far more than usual, as far as changing things with the WrestleMania 27 card go.

Partial source: F4Wonline.com
I just said that. I guess I was right too :dry:


Sin Cara Calls Audible During His RAW Debut, Snooki-WWE Update, More

Posted by Marc Middleton on 04/06/2011

- While Snooki is saying she's done with wrestling now, word from WWE is that if she stayed sober and actually wanted a career once Jersey Shore is done, they would sign her.

- When Sin Cara attacked Sheamus on RAW this past Monday, a WWE crew member pushed a mini-trampoline from under the ring as Cara ran towards it. There was concern backstage that the trick could go wrong if the trampoline wasn't in the right position, which it wasn't. The trampoline was positioned so close to the ring that Cara almost didn't clear the top rope when he went to attack Sheamus.

On a related note, Cara was originally planned to leap from the top rope onto Sheamus on the floor with a tornado twist in mid-air. He called an audible during the angle and ended up doing the high crossbody. The original finish to the angle would have looked better on TV but the crossbody came off nice.

Partial source: PWTorch
:facepalm:
 
Sounds like Hunter Rider may have been right about the Rock. If the early plan was Cena vs Taker for WM28 then Rock must have changed his mind and decided to wrestle one last match VERY recently. Or they were going to do Rock vs Cena at Summerslam and decided it would be better to hold it for Wrestlemania.


I'll go with very recently the way things have been going. I believe they got more than they bargained for when Rock started agreeing to physicality.
 
I'm the Rock's biggest fan but dammit, I'm pissed. Why did he even bother coming back if wrestlemania 28 is going to be the face off between he and cena?? That is just poor. A rivalry is going to drag out for a year and carry the same initial intense emotion and by that point, the reason why they're fighting isn't going to matter.

What made it worse was, Cena's kissass antics and the Rock talking about respect and extending his hand out not once but twice, that's not the Rock I like to see. Hell, my favourite era of the rock is '97 to '99 no bs, no nonsense.......but I guess maturity has to kick in and blah blah blah. I just wish the Rock either stayed away for good or really brought the attitude era heat back. All this agitating, pacing up and down and fast-talking shouting he does doesn't sit too well with me.
 
I'm the Rock's biggest fan but dammit, I'm pissed. Why did he even bother coming back if wrestlemania 28 is going to be the face off between he and cena?? That is just poor. A rivalry is going to drag out for a year and carry the same initial intense emotion and by that point, the reason why they're fighting isn't going to matter.

What made it worse was, Cena's kissass antics and the Rock talking about respect and extending his hand out not once but twice, that's not the Rock I like to see. Hell, my favourite era of the rock is '97 to '99 no bs, no nonsense.......but I guess maturity has to kick in and blah blah blah. I just wish the Rock either stayed away for good or really brought the attitude era heat back. All this agitating, pacing up and down and fast-talking shouting he does doesn't sit too well with me.

My exact thoughts, the way this fued has to come to a head doesnt add up to waiting for a year to see them settle it. The whole logic (in wrestling there is no logic) doesnt make sense. If someone screwed me out of a world title in the main event of the super bowl of wrestling, I would want his ass right then and there, Not an entire year from now. Are they really going to carry this intensity with them and hatred for an entire year and still be able to deliver?
 
who is to say he will leave for good again?

and there would definitely be a better chance of them becoming viewers imo

Do you REALLY think he's gonna give up ten million dollars per movie where he doesn't have to get hurt and come back and wrestle even semi regularly for less and the chance he might get hurt?

He may be back from time to time to make guest appearances but its not going to be regular and he's not going to wrestle much at all after this is over. I think the fact that we may have to wait a YEAR for for his next match says it all. He's got other commitments.

And like I said why should WWE put Rock over Cena for the CHANCE that they'll bring back a few older viewers when it may HURT the chance that they'll bring in many more new younger viewers. WWE's audience has always been built on new YOUNG viewers since Vince took over from his father.

Rock HAS been back and Raw isn't getting Attitude Era numbers. Thats just the facts.
 
The time to do it would have been now.

With him getting boo'd out of the building at Wrestlemania, this would have been the time to have him turn his back on the fanbase.

But instead, we get John Cena, not even mad that he got screwed out of a title, pleading with The Rock to give the fans - the same fans that are booing him out of the building - what they want.

Le sigh.

Not only would it have been the perfect time but it would have also have meant that Rock being here actually had an impact. We could have spent the next year watching Cena develop his character as a heel. Instead this angle just feels like it's been put on pause.
 
Do you REALLY think he's gonna give up ten million dollars per movie where he doesn't have to get hurt and come back and wrestle even semi regularly for less and the chance he might get hurt?

He may be back from time to time to make guest appearances but its not going to be regular and he's not going to wrestle much at all after this is over. I think the fact that we may have to wait a YEAR for for his next match says it all. He's got other commitments.

And like I said why should WWE put Rock over Cena for the CHANCE that they'll bring back a few older viewers when it may HURT the chance that they'll bring in many more new younger viewers. WWE's audience has always been built on new YOUNG viewers since Vince took over from his father.

Rock HAS been back and Raw isn't getting Attitude Era numbers. Thats just the facts.

i think he could do a few months a year - i dunno mate and neither do you, i didnt think he would ever wrestle again but he is

its not doing attitude numbers because it isnt as good as the attitude era

and i dont think alot of people who might watch it for the rock even know he is back - alot of people i know who like the rock had no idea till i told them
 
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