Joker 'JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX' (Phillips and Phoenix return for the sequel) General News & Discussion Thread

[SwordOfMorning]

What would a Batman movie in this universe be? The age gap between the two is so huge. Will they put Joaquin in Old Age Makeup and have a 25 year old Batman?

My actual guess is they'll pretend Arthur is a lot younger than Joaquin.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I think they already do in the movie. He's play early 30s I'm pretty sure.

 

[Invader Joker]

Of course Phillips has an idea! He for sure wants to make that movie. It's the logical endpoint of the story he's telling and would make him a sum of money equivalent to the GDP of a decently sized nation. If they can sell Phoenix on it, it will happen.

And he absolutely is lol, there are countless stories about his disinterest in that aspect and how uncomfortable it made him. Not saying he couldn't be sold on it but there is an obvious resistance and lack of interest. There's a massive gap between a grounded version of Harley and him straight up finding a costumed vigilante if you look at it from the perspective of someone who really doesn't want to do anything with a superhero.

I wouldn't say the gap is massive. It's kinda obvious that if he already got convinced to be in two Joker movies in the title role, is not really gonna take /that/ much convicing for him to be in a third Joker movie with Batman lol Especially since from the first movie it already seemed like he was salivating at the chance to play Arthur a lot more again. He's a weird man but because of how obvious it seems like that's the natural direction for Arthur's story to go I really don't think he'd reject it.
And again "straight up finding a costumed vigilante", weeell.... the thing is that Phillips Batman will probably be ridiculously grounded to a degree more akin to Aronofsky's Batman or the real life vigilantes or even Joaquin's own "You Were Never Really Here", so that'd probably make it an even easier sell. It'd be a Batman that has pretty much nothing to do with the comic version.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I wouldn't say the gap is massive. It's kinda obvious that if he already got convinced to be in two Joker movies in the title role, is not really gonna take /that/ much convicing for him to be in a third Joker movie with Batman lol Especially since from the first movie it already seemed like he was salivating at the chance to play Arthur a lot more again. He's a weird man but because of how obvious it seems like that's the natural direction for Arthur's story to go I really don't think he'd reject it.
And again "straight up finding a costumed vigilante", weeell.... the thing is that Phillips Batman will probably be ridiculously grounded to a degree more akin to Aronofsky's Batman or the real life vigilantes or even Joaquin's own "You Were Never Really Here", so that'd probably make it an even easier sell. It'd be a Batman that has pretty much nothing to do with the comic version.

For the record, a Joker 3 where he fights Batman probably will happen unless Joaquin is fully against it or Arthur dies.

You are correct. A Phillips Joker would presumably be a full on Frank Miller inspired violent creep - not exactly an easily marketable character to have headline his own Bat franchise.

A hypothetical Joker 3 will be the end. The Batman, Part III will be the end. Around that time the DCU Batman will have had at least one movie and be primed to be the only game in town. One assumes that this is the plan if all the movies make money.

 

[Invader Joker]

For the record, a Joker 3 where he fights Batman probably will happen unless Joaquin is fully against it or Arthur dies.

You are correct. A Phillips Joker would presumably be a full on Frank Miller inspired violent creep - not exactly an easily marketable character to have headline his own Bat franchise.

A hypothetical Joker 3 will be the end. The Batman, Part III will be the end. Around that time the DCU Batman will have had at least one movie and be primed to be the only game in town. One assumes that this is the plan if all the movies make money.

This probably underscores what a ridiculously complicated situation Brave and the Bold will be in, coming in the middle of two highly succesful Batman or Batman-related franchises that both have gotten all the praise they've gotten mostly because of how different they are from everything else out there on the CBM market.

I know the general consensus is that "Well Brave and the Bold will just be the MCU-like Batman movie" but we're at a particular point in time where I feel that if they go the easy route doing that, it might end up severely biting them in the ass because not only are audiences getting a bit tired of those types of movies, but Batman has historically always been the franchise that offers something different, so to suddenly make it generic and have it be like any other superhero movie would probably do them no good and it'd be even more noticeable coming in such close proximity to Joker and The Batman.

That's why I'm a strong advocate they should get someone with a really distinct creative vision for that film, because otherwise I do think the chances of it getting rejected by the audience that already has certain expectations for what a Batman franchise film should be based on Joker and The Batman are pretty high. But that's a topic for the Brave and the Bold thread lol.

I am curious as to who would Phillips get as his Batman though, Paul Mescal?

 

[Eddie Dean]

For Philips' Batman I would also cast Joaquin.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

This probably underscores what a ridiculously complicated situation Brave and the Bold will be in, coming in the middle of two highly succesful Batman or Batman-related franchises that both have gotten all the praise they've gotten mostly because of how different they are from everything else out there on the CBM market.

I know the general consensus is that "Well Brave and the Bold will just be the MCU-like Batman movie" but we're at a particular point in time where I feel that if they go the easy route doing that, it might end up severely biting them in the ass because not only are audiences getting a bit tired of those types of movies, but Batman has historically always been the franchise that offers something different, so to suddenly make it generic and have it be like any other superhero movie would probably do them no good and it'd be even more noticeable coming in such close proximity to Joker and The Batman.

That's why I'm a strong advocate they should get someone with a really distinct creative vision for that film, because otherwise I do think the chances of it getting rejected by the audience that already has certain expectations for what a Batman franchise film should be based on Joker and The Batman are pretty high. But that's a topic for the Brave and the Bold thread lol.

I am curious as to who would Phillips get as his Batman though, Paul Mescal?

Brave And The Bold is going to have a Robin that is a child assassin. How is that remotely "generic"? If anything, The Batman is just retreading where Nolan has already gone in his trilogy (EPIC. CRIME. SAGA. to quote Matt Reeves on Twitter), and Joker was just a 1980s Scorsese version of what Heath Ledger gave us. Brave And The Bold already sounds different then what we've gotten from a Batman movie in nearly 30 years.

 

[Invader Joker]

Brave And The Bold is going to have a Robin that is a child assassin. How is that remotely "generic"? If anything, The Batman is just retreading where Nolan has already gone in his trilogy (EPIC. CRIME. SAGA. to quote Matt Reeves on Twitter), and Joker was just a 1980s Scorsese version of what Heath Ledger gave us. Brave And The Bold already sounds different then what we've gotten from a Batman movie in nearly 30 years.

I didn't say Brave and the Bold is going to be generic lmao Just that some people are expecting for it to be that, and hell, it might still be since we still don't know who's going to be in charge of it. Even with the premise it has, it's really not hard to think how there might be a version of that movie that could be really MCU-like. But I've been one of the people that has been pretty adamant that movie could get some really interesting creative talent behind it and make something pretty distinctive with the premise and the source material. Hell, I've brought up freaking Bong Joon-Ho and Darren Aronofsky in the BaTB thread lol.

Also maybe you can think those things of both The Batman and Joker, but it doesn't matter because I was talking in terms of the context of modern superhero movies. Both The Batman and Joker are unlike anything else in the blockbuster or superhero market currently or for the last 10 years; that's what I mean when I say they're not generic, because of how clearly different they are from anything else in the industry at the moment even if you wanna say one is just retreading ground from Nolan (which it really isn't, it's an entirely different beast from the Nolan films) and the other from Scorssese.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Brave And The Bold is going to have a Robin that is a child assassin. How is that remotely "generic"? If anything, The Batman is just retreading where Nolan has already gone in his trilogy (EPIC. CRIME. SAGA. to quote Matt Reeves on Twitter), and Joker was just a 1980s Scorsese version of what Heath Ledger gave us. Brave And The Bold already sounds different then what we've gotten from a Batman movie in nearly 30 years.

Movies are less what they're about and more about how they're about it. On paper, sure, The Brave & The Bold sounds more distinct from previous Batman movies but it is also being made in a fundamentally more assembly line fashion than Joker or The Batman. We don't know how much control the filmmakers will have over it yet but it isn't unreasonable to think it'll ultimately be a work for hire gig and designed to be a more accessible, four quadrant film than the R Rated Joker or the more slow paced and dour The Batman.

 

[Invader Joker]

Movies are less what they're about and more about how they're about it. On paper, sure, The Brave & The Bold sounds more distinct from previous Batman movies but it is also being made in a fundamentally more assembly line fashion than Joker or The Batman. We don't know how much control the filmmakers will have over it yet but it isn't unreasonable to think it'll ultimately be a work for hire gig and designed to be a more accessible, four quadrant film than the R Rated Joker or the more slow paced and dour The Batman.

And the funny/ironic thing about it being potentially more "accessible and four quadrant" is the fact that it'll probably be less succesful financially than the R Rated Joker or the slow paced and dour The Batman, leading the whole attempt to be kinda pointless? We live in bizarre times lol Really hoping they embrace the insanity and do something unique.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

And the funny/ironic thing about it being potentially more "accessible and four quadrant" is the fact that it'll probably be less succesful financially than the R Rated Joker or the slow paced and dour The Batman. We live in bizarre times.

And both will almost certainly be far more successful than the universe launching Superman: Legacy even if that movie does well.

 

[Invader Joker]

And both will almost certainly be far more successful than the universe launching Superman: Legacy even if that movie does well.

I reaaally hope Gunn isn't BSing about actually searching for strong creative visions and distinct movies in his DCU. His movie slate seems like if it's handled well it could give for some really diverse range of stories, but it'll all end up depending on the actual talent he hires. That'll be the moment when we really know if he's sticking by his word of wanting every movie to reflect the individual vision of its director/writer, or if he's just gonna hire puppets like what Feige does. The latter may feel "safer", but the way the wind is blowing the former is what the genre and his own DCU needs to actually thrive.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I reaaally hope Gunn isn't BSing about actually searching for strong creative visions and distinct movies in his DCU. His movie slate seems like if it's handled well it could give for some really diverse range of stories, but it'll all end up depending on the actual talent he hires. That'll be the moment when we really know if he's sticking by his word of wanting every movie to reflect the individual vision of its director/writer, or if he's just gonna hire puppets like what Feige does. The latter may feel "safer", but the way the wind is blowing the former is what the genre and his own DCU needs to actually thrive.

It'll be a middle ground, I'd imagine. But the fact of the matter is that The Brave & The Bold is still a movie that will be mandated to have a certain story, feature certain characters, have a ton of oversight from Gunn and his team about who is cast and probably set up certain things for the future - you can do that without it being as utterly stifling as the MCU is but its never gonna be what Joker or The Batman is. Doesn't mean it'll be bad, but it is going to be different.

But, that's a matter for a different sub-forum.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I want a copy of that front page on my wall!

Gaga saying bye to the extras. Shooting seems to be over for now.

Nice. That's classy

 

[FunkMiller]

And both will almost certainly be far more successful than the universe launching Superman: Legacy even if that movie does well.

Very much looking forward to all the articles in three or four years about how DC's stand alone movies have completely dominated its shared universe movies at the box office... and everyone in Hollywood being surprised about that, for some stupid reason.

 

[Matt.S99]

Gaga saying bye to the extras. Shooting seems to be over for now.

God, I love this woman so much.

I still can’t believe this is happening. Gaga as freaking Harley Quinn. My dreams come to life.

 

[Rod]

I can really see now:

Damn....

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I can really see now:

Damn....

"That is just a whole lot of pretty in a whole lot of crazy."

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

 

[Hollis Mason]

There seems to be many groups in Gotham. The Arkham Angels, The All People Movement, the Gotham Anarchist Circle, and The Clowns.

The "All People Movement" seem to be the ones against the "Clowns", maybe a religious group? They're the ones holding the cross at the court scene.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Like the Flashpoint Joker/Heath Ledger hair!

 

[Hollis Mason]

The Clowns seem to not be allowed in any group. There's also lots of signs from the "All People Movement" in NY set and LA set too.

 

[Hollis Mason]

 

[Matt.S99]

Here’s a little Harley Quinn fan art I just finished