A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

[Marvolo]

shouldn't it be the complete opposite? If the northerners remain loyal to Jon and see that she's in love with the dragon queen and wants to marry her, wouldn't that help forge the alliance?

We're speaking about two different things in a medieval society. Love and political marriage. They can overlap but they are two distinct things. The northern lords wouldn't be phased by any amorous feelings Jon and Dany have for each other. They don't know Dany and for all they know Jon is just smitten and in lust rather than love. And remember that love is what got Robb and a lot of northerners slaughtered by the Freys. The Northern Lords would however care about a political marriage and whether love is involved would be a distant comcern. And tho they know what's at risk they will always prefer Jon marry a Northern lady and not the daughter of the Mad King.

Tyrion is likely thinking about the risk of the love. Not the political marriage. Them having a falling out because of a failed trist could literally mean the death of every man, woman, and child on the westerosi continent. Everything is riding on Jon and Dany cooperating with each other on friendly terms. And there is the possibility that an amorous relationship could be a weakness and compromise Dany. A person like Tyrion will be wondering if Dany would be willing to kill or let Jon die if she's in love with him.

Even before Tyrion knew about the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead he believed that Westeros' future depended on Dany. He went so far as to risk the entire war because he was unwilling to encourage Dany to fly her dragon's into battle. Hell, he even told Dany to not rescue Jon which would have resulted in no Wight to show Cersei, Dany wouldn't have seen the Army of the Dead, Jon would be dead, the North would think Dany betrayed or outright murdered Jon, and there would have been no coalition to face the Army of the Dead. Tyrion was willing to risk all that to keep Dany out of harms way. IDK what sort of plans Tyrion might have for himself, but he seems to really be all in for Dany and wants her on the Iron Throne. Love with Jon is a potential threat. A potential wrench in the gears. Tyrion must recognize this and is probably just concerned.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

We're speaking about two different things in a medieval society. Love and political marriage. They can overlap but they are two distinct things. The northern lords wouldn't be phased by any amorous feelings Jon and Dany have for each other. They don't know Dany and for all they know Jon is just smitten and in lust rather than love. And remember that love is what got Robb and a lot of northerners slaughtered by the Freys. The Northern Lords would however care about a political marriage and whether love is involved would be a distant comcern. And tho they know what's at risk they will always prefer Jon marry a Northern lady and not the daughter of the Mad King.

They are overlapping in this case though. Before Baelish's demise, he hinted at an alliance by marriage between Jon and Dany. It looks as though Dany will very likely become pregnant next season, and going by Jon's character in season 1, he'll want to marry her because of that and that will make them equals, as well as helping to solidify that alliance. So, like you said, that should be something that the northerners care about; whether there is love involved in the marriage shouldn't matter because they are getting Dany's armies.

The woman that Robb married was for love yes, but she was just a "war nurse" for lack of a better term if there is one. Marrying her didn't bring any dowry, but Jon marrying Dany means "they'd be dificult to defeat" according to Baelish, again.

This is also the same case if Jon marries a northern woman. The North is already loyal to the Stark family, so him marrying a northerner doesn't bring any gains to the North.

Tyrion is likely thinking about the risk of the love. Not the political marriage. Them having a falling out because of a failed trist could literally mean the death of every man, woman, and child on the westerosi continent. Everything is riding on Jon and Dany cooperating with each other on friendly terms. And there is the possibility that an amorous relationship could be a weakness and compromise Dany. A person like Tyrion will be wondering if Dany would be willing to kill or let Jon die if she's in love with him.

This makes sense but at that point in the story, Tyrion has no reason to believe Jon and Dany would have a falling out. "He wasn't the first to love you, and he won't be the last." - Tyrion's own words. Dany took his advice on dumping Daario, and unknowingly took his advice on finding a partner in Westeros, Jon Snow. Your last statement doesn't make sense though. Why would Dany want to kill Jon while she loves him, and why would Tyrion worry about Dany killing Jon, while she is in love with him...?

Even before Tyrion knew about the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead he believed that Westeros' future depended on Dany. He went so far as to risk the entire war because he was unwilling to encourage Dany to fly her dragon's into battle. Hell, he even told Dany to not rescue Jon which would have resulted in no Wight to show Cersei, Dany wouldn't have seen the Army of the Dead, Jon would be dead, the North would think Dany betrayed or outright murdered Jon, and there would have been no coalition to face the Army of the Dead. Tyrion was willing to risk all that to keep Dany out of harms way. IDK what sort of plans Tyrion might have for himself, but he seems to really be all in for Dany and wants her on the Iron Throne. Love with Jon is a potential threat. A potential wrench in the gears. Tyrion must recognize this and is probably just concerned.

If Tyrion's mindset is that love with Jon is a potential threat, then Tyrion is contradicting himself. Dany being in love with Jon should help push forward an alliance by marriage. I think what season 7 showed, as well as everything you said here, is that Dany doesn't need Tyrion anymore. He's honestly become a useless characters. He comes up with bad ideas, and the ideas he had that seemed like good ones, didn't go as according to plan. Dany said to Jon "you were right from the beginning, I should've trusted you" in the finale, and in the middle episode she asks him for advice before going into battle.

 

[Havok83]

I vote yes - I'm fine with Jon Snow and Dany being romantically involved, and having children together. In this fictional world, it's more widespread.. especially among Targarians. I'll accept it... though I will admit it poisons it a bit... and I'm not looking forward to their romance really. It's not something that I'm looking forward to, but I've accepted it as necessary to the story at this point.

The Targareyeon's dont exist anymore outside the two in the incestuous pairing and outside of Dorne, most that we have come across in this series look down upon incest. Its not something that has widespread acceptance

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The Targareyeon's dont exist anymore outside the two in the incestuous pairing and outside of Dorne, most that we have come across in this series look down upon incest. Its not something that has widespread acceptance

it depends on how close the incest is. if it's sibling-sibling or parent-child yes that's frowned upon

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

loving the tweets from the golden globes

http://time.com/5093870/golden-globes-kit-harington-emilia-clarke/

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I just got a notification that a user named chuoiit quoted me, except...it also says he has 0 posts. weird.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

according to this video, Dany is pregnant

 

[Robert Rise]

I am agree with you)

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

The Song of Ice and Fire, how it's playing out on the show seems to refer to the two threats to Westeros. The northern White Walker threat and the Dragon Queen threat. Perhaps Jon Snow was the red herring or simply the one to defeat both. Again, even with Arya delivering the death blow, she wouldn't have even been there without Jon.

 

[jolldan]

it depends on how close the incest is. if it's sibling-sibling or parent-child yes that's frowned upon

This is literally the only show I've personally ever known that has acceptable levels of incest

 

[Havok83]

The Song of Ice and Fire, how it's playing out on the show seems to refer to the two threats to Westeros. The northern White Walker threat and the Dragon Queen threat. Perhaps Jon Snow was the red herring or simply the one to defeat both. Again, even with Arya delivering the death blow, she wouldn't have even been there without Jon.

Ironically without Jon, there would be no Dragon Queen (and arguably WW) threat

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

This is literally the only show I've personally ever known that has acceptable levels of incest

And it will remain the only show ever with that lol

Anyway, season 8 sucked and it ruined the whole show

 

[TheVileOne]

And it will remain the only show ever with that lol

Anyway, season 8 sucked and it ruined the whole show

Taboo had incest.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Taboo had incest.

And it was socially acceptable in that universe?

 

[TheVileOne]

And it was socially acceptable in that universe?

Now I see your point, not really.