Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 5x08 - "The Last Day" - Discussion Thread

[X-Ray]

Those May/Robin moments were nice. Looking forward to their reunion in present time. Funny how May thought so little of herself. Stating to Coulson how she's just a grunt while everyone else is either a scientist or a brainiac of some sort. Yet in the alternate timeline flashback, she's the only one giving into the possibility of time travel and saving the world while everyone else is dead or gave up. Didn't like seeing that from Fitz and Jemma.

 

[Random490]

Just an educated guess, seeing how the explicit mentions disappeared after a while.
I agree it's for the best though.

I highly doubt there was any kind of mandate from above. Season one had the most tie-ins but it's also the weakest season. You don't want a show to have required viewing, as in, in order to understand this story arc you have to watch these movies before the new episode. You also don't want to spoil a movie, I purposely avoided the episode of SHIELD before Winter Soldier so I wouldn't get any kind of spoilers (I think they did reveal Hydra at the end, something I didn't see coming in the film, so I'm glad I did). And not everyone can make the opening weekend so they don't want that to effect the ratings. Also you don't want to have an original story line get interrupted by and unrelated story that doesn't really effect the characters directly. Crossover and references are gimmicks are fun but are also just gimmicks. The show has been strongest when exploring it's own path. I think the writers recognized this and made the choice for creative reasons rather than some sort of mandate.

We still don't know if that's how it went in the future timeline, probably not, by the way. Do you watch the show? It's explicity played as unconfirmed.

My guess is Graviton was really responsible and everything will be averted before even happening: the comics are full of extinction level disasters averted by time travel by B and C list characters without the wider heroes community ever knowing.
I'm more than fine with it if that will be the case.

Exactly, they're being purposely vague for a reason and that's because there's gonna be a misdirect. All anyone has really been shown to know was that Daisy was involved and there were earthquakes registering 12.6, or whatever, and that's it. No one knows yet what really happened and how to stop it. There are tons of possibilities still left open. Heck in that season we saw Quake trying to minimize earthquakes being caused by Eli. So the show has already established that other forces can cause earthquakes and has been very consistent with Quake's powers and limitations.

I do feel like it's gonna end as a "greatest story never told" kind of thing, the rest of the world will never know how close it came to destruction. I will be annoyed if May, Fitz, Jemma, Mac, and Yoyo finds out what causes it before the moment. Because if turns out they did and didn't leave a message detailing it, then that's just a huge plot hole.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Agreed. I am also of the opinion Graviton is responsible, and the incident in question happens during a climactic fight between Graviton and Daisy.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Agreed. I am also of the opinion Graviton is responsible, and the incident in question happens during a climactic fight between Graviton and Daisy.

Don't forget Flint perhaps being the key to break the loop

 

[Marvel]

Great episode. Too bad it took so long to get there. This season has some cool concepts and great performances (as usual) but everything feels like they're stretching. It's like they had material for less than a full season and have to drag it out.

 

[Random490]

Great episode. Too bad it took so long to get there. This season has some cool concepts and great performances (as usual) but everything feels like they're stretching. It's like they had material for less than a full season and have to drag it out.

Funny because I feel it's going along fairly quickly. I could definitely see stories like this being drawn out far more in other shows

 

[EarthShaker]

Funny because I feel it's going along fairly quickly. I could definitely see stories like this being drawn out far more in other shows

there is plenty of material. when shield team gets back to their own timeline, they do not know what to expect when they return.

 

[raz1337]

Has anyone read this?

https://screenrant.com/agents-shield-season-5-time-travel-explained-monolith/

It makes so many assumptions, like they've already traveled back to the past and failed and they brought the agents to the future with the intention of killing Daisy. Where did the episode imply any of this?

This pod is obviously not following the Back to the Future theory of time travel. Think about it. If they found a way to stop the destruction and went back in time, what about the ethical implications? All of the people in the future and their lives would disappear and be replaced with a functional Earth. Why would Mack and Flint be rushing back into the Lighthouse to protect everyone then? Traveling to the past would just change that future so that should be the higher priority.

Instead, you can go by the Dragon Ball Z time travel theory. Each time you time travel, it creates a new timeline, however, you can travel back to the starting timeline without creating a new timeline.

It would go like this

Timeline A: All events are the same as we know before S5 until ~2018 when the event happens. The flashbacks from this episode occur in this timeline. Fitz and Simmons create schematics for time machine. They die, and Owen, Deke's father, creates it. In 2091, the agents are pulled to the future from timeline B and the events of S5 happen.

Timeline B: The MCU as we know it up until 2018. Agents are taken from this timeline to timeline A. Fitz takes the long way to 2091.

Now, the problem is that Fitz reaches 2091 and his friends are there. So, where did those come from? Is there a possible third timeline?

Timeline C: Same as timeline B, except agents from C are taken to B.

The whole reason I say this is because, like Fitz says, time is fixed, but the timeline theory can explain things such as my ethical question. Why fight in the future if changing the past will change the future in that timeline? The timeline the show is in right now obviously won't change, but they can help those people and get back in time to save their own timeline.

Then we have the placement of things such as Fitz' postcard. Also, if Fitz "took the long way" then going by the Back to the Future theory, then there should be no Fitz in the flashbacks. The time machine wasn't created or designed by him in the timeline the show is in.

 

[Steyin]

The best thing about this season is that all the new characters, whom I hate, have all died except for Deke. Kid Robin is extremely annoying. I'll give Kasius and his sidekick a pass. This plot is just really aggravating me, but I understand they're probably going all out just cause this is most likely the last season.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

The best thing about this season is that all the new characters, whom I hate, have all died except for Deke. Kid Robin is extremely annoying. I'll give Kasius and his sidekick a pass. This plot is just really aggravating me, but I understand they're probably going all out just cause this is most likely the last season.

I think they went all out last season with Ghost Rider and the Framework pods. This season was more of now what and the thematic tie-in to the gladiator pit and the space threat.

 

[Dark Raven]

I don't consider this season going all out. This has dragged so far and not been the most interesting. Last season might've been considered to go all out.

 

[Random490]

Has anyone read this?

https://screenrant.com/agents-shield-season-5-time-travel-explained-monolith/

It makes so many assumptions, like they've already traveled back to the past and failed and they brought the agents to the future with the intention of killing Daisy. Where did the episode imply any of this?

This pod is obviously not following the Back to the Future theory of time travel. Think about it. If they found a way to stop the destruction and went back in time, what about the ethical implications? All of the people in the future and their lives would disappear and be replaced with a functional Earth. Why would Mack and Flint be rushing back into the Lighthouse to protect everyone then? Traveling to the past would just change that future so that should be the higher priority.

Instead, you can go by the Dragon Ball Z time travel theory. Each time you time travel, it creates a new timeline, however, you can travel back to the starting timeline without creating a new timeline.

It would go like this

Timeline A: All events are the same as we know before S5 until ~2018 when the event happens. The flashbacks from this episode occur in this timeline. Fitz and Simmons create schematics for time machine. They die, and Owen, Deke's father, creates it. In 2091, the agents are pulled to the future from timeline B and the events of S5 happen.

Timeline B: The MCU as we know it up until 2018. Agents are taken from this timeline to timeline A. Fitz takes the long way to 2091.

Now, the problem is that Fitz reaches 2091 and his friends are there. So, where did those come from? Is there a possible third timeline?

Timeline C: Same as timeline B, except agents from C are taken to B.

The whole reason I say this is because, like Fitz says, time is fixed, but the timeline theory can explain things such as my ethical question. Why fight in the future if changing the past will change the future in that timeline? The timeline the show is in right now obviously won't change, but they can help those people and get back in time to save their own timeline.

Then we have the placement of things such as Fitz' postcard. Also, if Fitz "took the long way" then going by the Back to the Future theory, then there should be no Fitz in the flashbacks. The time machine wasn't created or designed by him in the timeline the show is in.

It is interesting the article thinks that Flint might be the destroyer.

We're not certain how timelines work in the MCU, our only hints are from Doctor Strange which makes it seem a little more complicated and didn't provide any idea if it creates alternate universes. And the save people on the lighthouse because there's always the chance they could be stuck there forever, plus the moral code of trying to save people. It's easy for the audience to write them off because it's fiction and we know the past is gonna change, but not so much for the characters.

And Fitz is in the flashbacks because he did take the long way but traveled back to present with the rest of the crew. If it's a singular timeline this is how it plays out: The gang is abducted and taken to the future. Fitz freezes himself. In the future the find each other, liberate humanity, and travel back in time. In the present they fail to prevent the end of the world, knowing about the light house's they ship survivors there. Fitz and Simmons develop the time machine despite believing it won't change anything. Everyone looses faith that the past can be changed except May who encourages the true believers to bring the Agents to the future. Kind of like the Doctor Who episode "Heaven Sent", it's a repeated loop and when they break it then we'll have an idea what happens to the timelines.

For example what happens to Future Fitz? Will he disappear to confirm the future changed? If he stays then what about Frozen Fitz? Will there be two Fitz'?

 

[Uskok]

And Fitz is in the flashbacks because he did take the long way but traveled back to present with the rest of the crew. If it's a singular timeline this is how it plays out: The gang is abducted and taken to the future. Fitz freezes himself. In the future the find each other, liberate humanity, and travel back in time. In the present they fail to prevent the end of the world, knowing about the light house's they ship survivors there. Fitz and Simmons develop the time machine despite believing it won't change anything. Everyone looses faith that the past can be changed except May who encourages the true believers to bring the Agents to the future. Kind of like the Doctor Who episode "Heaven Sent", it's a repeated loop and when they break it then we'll have an idea what happens to the timelines.

For example what happens to Future Fitz? Will he disappear to confirm the future changed? If he stays then what about Frozen Fitz? Will there be two Fitz'?

According to Mark Kolpack, the flashbacks of Robin's past are set in a timeline where the S.H.I.E.L.D. team was never taken to the future by Enoch. But if Kolpack's explanation is true, why would the team end up in the future of a universe where they weren't kidnapped by Enoch, and how and why would Enoch and Fitz end up in the future of that same universe?

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

According to Mark Kolpack, the flashbacks of Robin's past are set in a timeline where the S.H.I.E.L.D. team was never taken to the future by Enoch. But if Kolpack's explanation is true, why would the team end up in the future of a universe where they weren't kidnapped by Enoch, and how and why would Enoch and Fitz end up in the future of that same universe?

On rewatch in the first Zypher scene there is some unknown black guy on the flight deck as Agent May flies towards the lighthouse. Meaning SHIELD was probably not disbanded. We can only guess that the USAF picked them up at the diner and General Hale or someone cleared them of the assassination of General Talbot and then they skipped forward to the security camera scene with Daisy at the quinjet where she was last seen.

 

[Mike Murdock]

According to Mark Kolpack, the flashbacks of Robin's past are set in a timeline where the S.H.I.E.L.D. team was never taken to the future by Enoch. But if Kolpack's explanation is true, why would the team end up in the future of a universe where they weren't kidnapped by Enoch, and how and why would Enoch and Fitz end up in the future of that same universe?

I don't buy the explanation anyway just because Fitz talks about how they're essentially in a closed time loop and have possibly tried and failed on many occasions. That can't happen if they don't go to the future.

 

[Random490]

On rewatch in the first Zypher scene there is some unknown black guy on the flight deck as Agent May flies towards the lighthouse. Meaning SHIELD was probably not disbanded. We can only guess that the USAF picked them up at the diner and General Hale or someone cleared them of the assassination of General Talbot and then they skipped forward to the security camera scene with Daisy at the quinjet where she was last seen.

That guy could just be a random newcomer, Shield were the only ones somewhat prepared for the world breaking. Plus we were shown that the destruction would take a few year before earth was inhabitable.

I don't buy the explanation anyway just because Fitz talks about how they're essentially in a closed time loop and have possibly tried and failed on many occasions. That can't happen if they don't go to the future.

Exactly, there was a lot of things to suggest this was part of the loop and seems like the series will keep reinforcing the idea of the loop up or else why bring the idea up at all if you've already undercut it to the audience?

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

That guy could just be a random newcomer, Shield were the only ones somewhat prepared for the world breaking. Plus we were shown that the destruction would take a few year before earth was inhabitable.

That is the problem due to the Daisy LMD there was no SHIELD, again. The command staff was having breakfast preparing to surrender themselves when Enoch got to them first. Which does suggest that we need more information to form a better hypothesis.

 

[just one thing]

did robin tell may how to close the time loop or just how to get back to their own time?

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

did robin tell may how to close the time loop or just how to get back to their own time?

Her prophecies were not that specific. She drew a picture which someone needed to interpret. In this case get Flint and the team thought up the plan with access to his Inhuman power set.

 

[just one thing]

Her prophecies were not that specific. She drew a picture which someone needed to interpret. In this case get Flint and the team thought up the plan with access to his Inhuman power set.

she said something into her ear before she died. All we know is that she mentioned flint. Obviously flint was needed to get them back to their time. May hasn't been taking the lead on the saving the world thing. Which raises the question. Did robin only tell may how to get back.