The Dark Knight Anyone think The Dark Knight might be Nolan's last Bat-movie?

Nolans alterations wont be as off the wall as Returns. It probably would be very good even, but I have a feeling many wont like it here anyway if Nolan departs from an outrageous Joker and stuff.

As for two being the last, thats another thing many comic fans wont like.. they never know when to quit imo so Nolan could indeed wrap things up in 2, or even 3. It might not go on forever. He has a true narrative style. A beginning, a middle and an end perhaps is in the works.
 
Style 92 said:
George Clooney was signed to do three Batman movies, and he only made one. Jonathan Frakes was signed to direct 3 Star Trek movies, and he only did 2.

The question is far from moot.

so was Shumacker IIRC, but they didnt do any more Batman movies because the last one bombed. WB let the franchise go. if their contracts were still in effect then we would have Clooney as Batman and Shumucker as the director.

as for Frakes, wait and see. the TNG cast arent dead yet.
 
Style 92 said:
And don't think it can't happen to Nolan, (witness the once coddled Bryan Singer now being savaged for Superman Returns.)
As I've mentioned before, what makes me trust Nolan as TDK's director was the way he handled BB's budget, which was more than 3x anything else he has ever made. Between Nolan and Singer, Nolan was the one waaay more likely to lose perspective, since Singer's handled a $100+ million project before. Even X1's budget was almost twice that of anything Nolan had done. Yet, what did we see with SR? A lack of story and characterization in favor of special effects, not to mention the cutting of a $10 million scene.

I'm not as sure regarding the Burton and Schumacher analogies, though. If I knew what WB's hand in BB was, I'd feel better about it. From what I've seen (on the BB special features), Nolan was pretty much free to do what he wanted, but he felt that he wasn't familiar enough with the comics and convinced Goyer to stay on the project, even when Goyer had Blade: Trinity to do.

Nolan: I first became interested in taking on Batman when I heard that Warner Brothers was looking to renew and reinvent the franchise. I'd made my last film at Warner Brothers [Insomnia], so I was able to go to them and explain to them the way I saw the Batman franchise being interestingly reinvented. From the beginning, my interest was in taking on a superhero story but treating in a realistic fashion. I've always been a big fan of the character, but I am, by no means, any kind of comic book expert. I felt I needed a writer on the project who really knew the character, inside-out - really knew the comic world.
Goyer: Chris's agent rang me up one day. I'd always wanted to write a Batman movie. I remember telling my mother when I was a kid, that I was going to go to Hollywood one day and do a Batman film. And, in a way, I had been waiting my whole life for this call.
Nolan: David, unfortunately at that time, said, he couldn't possibly write the script since he only had a few weeks before he had to go off and direct [Blade: Trinity].
Goyer: I said that if I did do it, this is what I would do, and you can just have my ideas for free. And, I talked for about an hour, and....spitballed a large amount of what the film is. And Chris said, "Wow, sounds great." He went away again for a few more days. I got a call again, saying, "You have to do this, you have to do this."

Yes, I'm really bored right now, LOL. But there it is - proof that Nolan is more than willing to collaborate with people who have more knowledge that him. It seems, at least at the point he did BB, that he wants to pay homage to Batman's comic book history. I'd want to say "stay true to Batman's comic book history" but as we all know, Batman is a fictional character and many artists and writers have given him different histories, LOL. But I think you know what I mean...

Of course this doesn't mean that TDK will be the best comic book movie ever or that it will be a huge smash, but yes, at this point, I don't find any good reason to say that Nolan will completely lose perspective.
 
Oh I completely misread the title. No, yeah, your fears are well founded. When a director gets it in his head that he can have his way with an established character and go crazy their loyalty to the source becomes more doubtful. Is Nolan there yet? we don't know... but I hope that with him and his brother shoving goyer aside he's not planning to take batman and BINO him to death, only that they're sticking to the plan of creating a more accurate batman than we've ever seen before. They did ok with begins, but now's the time to make it a hundred times better.




Wesyeed out - love and kisses
rose.gif
 
I don't think us Bat-fans ever had more reasons to be optmistic about a movie than we do for TDK.
 
I would sleep with Nolan if he delivered the greatest batman film of all time.
 
It's amazing to know that Nolan is only 36 and only has a handful of movies under his belt.
 
The three are very, very different:

Burton: Doesn't adapt things to films, he alters them to better suit himself.

Schumacher: Likes giving companies what they want: advertisements for toys.

Nolan: Had free reign from the start, and used to it to make a faithful Batman film, and a good film at that.

Warner Bros. will literally be throwing money at Nolan to make a third.
 
The sequel is the true test of a franchise. Batman is still fighting an uphill battle.
 
Style 92 said:
Bear with me a moment before unilaterally dismissing this, (then unilaterally dismiss it.)

Batman movie to date have worked in twos. Now, before you accuse this of being coincidence, let me explain. I think there's a reason WHY they work in twos, and why Nolan may fall into the same trap:

Here's the deal: the three filmmakers who have tackled the modern Batfilms to date, (Burton, Schumacker, and Nolan) none of them have tried to make a definitive Batman movie. As in, a movie that is pure to the vision of Batman. Instead, they have all decided to adapt the Batman material to their own unique style of filmmaking. Burton didn't create Batman movies as such, as much as he made Tim Burton movies with Batman. The same for Schumacker and Nolan.

But it creates a 2-movie pattern. In the first film a director tackles, he does adapt Batman to his style, but he doesn't go overboard with it, and tries to maintain a balance with a more definitive Batman. It's hesitance. They know they are unproven, so they cast their net a little wider to appeal to more people. This is why the odd-numbered Batman movies are the less controversial set. (Batman, Batman Forever, Batman Begins.)

In the second film, the filmmaker has earned his cred. He's a proven commodity. So, he feels he has the right to engage in a Batman movie that is far more individualistic, far more a product of his own unique vision, with less emphasis on definitivity or hewing to the source material. As such, these movies tend to alienate both general audience members and general Batfans for straying as far as they do. They tend to only be embraced by those who are particularly enamored of that director's specific vision of Batman.

Now, it may be coincidence that this has happened twice, and may not happen again. But damn, if the early rumors are right, and the clown prince of crime is not clownish looking nor enamored of low comedy with a lethal twist, well, that suggests to me that Nolan is already thinking of departing further from established Batman lore.

Now, understand, there's nothing wrong with different people exploring different visions of Batman. It's just that the audience usually isn't that indulgent. Batman Returns not doing as good as Batman, Batman and Robin not doing as well as Batman Forever, and such. Also, the second film in the director's run on Batman tends to define his entire run. Batman Forever was not nearly as hokey or over the top as B&R, but they are remembered similarly. Batman Returns is more remembered for it's dark qualities, (many people I know describe it as gross, but I don't) and the first one is then remembered similarly. It also causes the director's vision to be ignored. Remember, there was a time when both Burton and Schumacker were hailed as the men who saved Batman, even if they are largley dismissed now.

And don't think it can't happen to Nolan, (witness the once coddled Bryan Singer now being savaged for Superman Returns.) I can just imagine what might happen with the next one: The "Joker" is not at all what people remember or were expecting. Therefore, People will feel let down. They were promised the Joker, and the promise wasn't properly fulfilled. This will leave a bad taste in their mouths. They will then start picking at other parts of the movie, perhaps calling it too dreary or full of itself, (if certain failins of BB continue, that is.) They will then notice some of these complaints also apply to BB, the movie will retroactively be rated negatively, Nolan's work will be dismissed and a new director will take over for the 7th one.

Again, I'm not saying this WILL happen, but, based on facts known and patterns to date, I think there's a good possibility it may happen.

Wait, did I just disparage Nolan and his vision of Batman? Let the flaming begin!

Nolan, and Bale are both signed for part 3 also, and they both have said that if the next two merit more movies that they would both love to do more.
Bale REALLY loves this role, and character, and like Chris Reeve he's now become this generations face to the chacter... BALE is BATMAN! :up:
 
Octoberist said:
It's amazing to know that Nolan is only 36 and only has a handful of movies under his belt.

36??? :eek:

He doesn't look so young :eek:
 
Merkel said:
I don't think us Bat-fans ever had more reasons to be optmistic about a movie than we do for TDK.

Talk about history repeating itself. We had this kind of optimism when 'Batman Returns' was being filmed in '91. And that almost ended the franchises. It made money but people were to indifferent about the darkness and weirdness of it.

WHy do you think they switch directors for 'Batman Forver'.

The only advantage I think Nolan has over Burton and Schumacher with his sequel looming is that I think he's smart enought to learn from the mistakes from the directors of the past two sequels.

Let me rephrase that...I HOPE he's smart enough to learn from the mistakes from the directors of the past two sequels. I like to think so.
 
before Begins he already had it in his mind to make a trilogy....
 
TheScarecrow said:
The three are very, very different:

Burton: Doesn't adapt things to films, he alters them to better suit himself.

sounds like what Bryan Singer has been doing for the X-Men and now the Superman franchise.
 
Style 92 said:
Bear with me a moment before unilaterally dismissing this, (then unilaterally dismiss it.)

Batman movie to date have worked in twos. Now, before you accuse this of being coincidence, let me explain. I think there's a reason WHY they work in twos, and why Nolan may fall into the same trap:

Here's the deal: the three filmmakers who have tackled the modern Batfilms to date, (Burton, Schumacker, and Nolan) none of them have tried to make a definitive Batman movie. As in, a movie that is pure to the vision of Batman. Instead, they have all decided to adapt the Batman material to their own unique style of filmmaking. Burton didn't create Batman movies as such, as much as he made Tim Burton movies with Batman. The same for Schumacker and Nolan.

But it creates a 2-movie pattern. In the first film a director tackles, he does adapt Batman to his style, but he doesn't go overboard with it, and tries to maintain a balance with a more definitive Batman. It's hesitance. They know they are unproven, so they cast their net a little wider to appeal to more people. This is why the odd-numbered Batman movies are the less controversial set. (Batman, Batman Forever, Batman Begins.)

In the second film, the filmmaker has earned his cred. He's a proven commodity. So, he feels he has the right to engage in a Batman movie that is far more individualistic, far more a product of his own unique vision, with less emphasis on definitivity or hewing to the source material. As such, these movies tend to alienate both general audience members and general Batfans for straying as far as they do. They tend to only be embraced by those who are particularly enamored of that director's specific vision of Batman.

Now, it may be coincidence that this has happened twice, and may not happen again. But damn, if the early rumors are right, and the clown prince of crime is not clownish looking nor enamored of low comedy with a lethal twist, well, that suggests to me that Nolan is already thinking of departing further from established Batman lore.

Now, understand, there's nothing wrong with different people exploring different visions of Batman. It's just that the audience usually isn't that indulgent. Batman Returns not doing as good as Batman, Batman and Robin not doing as well as Batman Forever, and such. Also, the second film in the director's run on Batman tends to define his entire run. Batman Forever was not nearly as hokey or over the top as B&R, but they are remembered similarly. Batman Returns is more remembered for it's dark qualities, (many people I know describe it as gross, but I don't) and the first one is then remembered similarly. It also causes the director's vision to be ignored. Remember, there was a time when both Burton and Schumacker were hailed as the men who saved Batman, even if they are largley dismissed now.

And don't think it can't happen to Nolan, (witness the once coddled Bryan Singer now being savaged for Superman Returns.) I can just imagine what might happen with the next one: The "Joker" is not at all what people remember or were expecting. Therefore, People will feel let down. They were promised the Joker, and the promise wasn't properly fulfilled. This will leave a bad taste in their mouths. They will then start picking at other parts of the movie, perhaps calling it too dreary or full of itself, (if certain failins of BB continue, that is.) They will then notice some of these complaints also apply to BB, the movie will retroactively be rated negatively, Nolan's work will be dismissed and a new director will take over for the 7th one.

Again, I'm not saying this WILL happen, but, based on facts known and patterns to date, I think there's a good possibility it may happen.

Wait, did I just disparage Nolan and his vision of Batman? Let the flaming begin!


Let me say that your commentary is well written and obviously you are passionate about the subject matter and have a real concern about the possibilities to Nolan's sequel falling into your theoritical trap.

My response? Don't worry. The Dark Knight will EXCEED even the fan boys expectations and make BB look like SR after its been said and done.
 
Style 92 said:
Yeah, but your assuming it's just a matter of him wanting to do a third. That's not my point. He could always be replaced.

Remember, Burton and Schumacker were both comitted to doing a third as well...

You're jumping the gun bigtime. Burton and Schumaker were committed to doing a third and were replaced b/c the second films they did were either badly received or BO bombs. If TDK bombs, then your argument holds weight and Nolan may leave or not be asked back by WB. But until that happens which is unlikely though nothing in hollywood or life for that matter is predictable, your argument holds little weight.
 
FanboyX_Returns said:
Nolan, and Bale are both signed for part 3 also, and they both have said that if the next two merit more movies that they would both love to do more.
Bale REALLY loves this role, and character, and like Chris Reeve he's now become this generations face to the chacter... BALE is BATMAN! :up:

Bale is signed on for 3 but Nolan is not. Only actors get contractually obligated to franchises, directors don't. They have to get asked back by the studio.
 
Unless DK goes horribly wrong, I'm pretty sure that Nolan will up for doing a third.
 
Nolan, and Bale are both signed for part 3 also, and they both have said that if the next two merit more movies that they would both love to do more.
Bale REALLY loves this role, and character, and like Chris Reeve he's now become this generations face to the chacter... BALE is BATMAN!
You seem like a nice person and I don't want to put you down, but I don't think Bale has yet to come close to being the definitive Batman actor the way Christopher Reeve is for Superman. Maybe with a couple more sequals, I'll change my mind. (But for me, for right now and probably forever, Kevin Conroy IS Batman.)

Let me say that your commentary is well written and obviously you are passionate about the subject matter and have a real concern about the possibilities to Nolan's sequel falling into your theoritical trap.

My response? Don't worry. The Dark Knight will EXCEED even the fan boys expectations and make BB look like SR after its been said and done.
Thank you. I don't mind being disagreed with when at least the basic validity of my ideas are acknowledged. Thank you, I hope you're right!
 
My expectation is that TDK will blow BB away and that Nolan will feel compelled to complete the trilogy. But no more than that.
 
Lucky Spidey fans. They've had the same director for the three movies. I hope we get the same treatment here. But if Nolan decides to move on to other things, who can blame him? he already gave us the best Batman flick to date and is likely to top even that one with DK.
 

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