Discussion: Gay Rights

[amazingfantasy15]

Yeah, adultery involves deceit and dishonesty and a healthy dose of going behind a partner's back.

Well, in a male gay relationship wouldn't there always be a healthy dose of going behind a partner's back? I guess if that's the definition of adultery, then in a literal sense a male gay relationship is adultery.

Just kidding of course.

 

[DBella]

why is homosexuality immoral though?
can any of the people against it, tell me?

I think they've answered and the answer was that the Bible says so.

Know what I think? I think homosexuality is the creator's gentler and kinder "method" to population control as opposed to the other methods which involve a lot of deaths (eg. famine and other natural disasters).

 

[amazingfantasy15]

In a nutshell...Catholics are taught since day one that they are screw ups and that they will always be screw ups and that they will always be punished and it's basically a rule through fear mentality. There's a great quote from Dogma "Catholics don't celebrate their relegion; they mourn it."

Yeah, the whole fire and brimstone thing is why I don't go to church anymore, I got really sick of hearing what a horrible person I am every week, even when I didn't do anything wrong that week. The Catholic religion sees it as a sin to just be born because Eve ate an apple at the dawn of time, what the hell?!?! We're still paying for that mistake?! God can sure hold a grudge!

 

[Steve Rogers]

I think they've answered and the answer was that the Bible says so.

The Bible also condones slavery. Wonder if these hardcore I-hate-gays-because-the-Bible-told-me-to types also support slavery too because the Bible said so?

 

[jaguarr]

Well, in a male gay relationship wouldn't there always be a healthy dose of going behind a partner's back? I guess if that's the definition of adultery, then in a literal sense a male gay relationship is adultery.

Just kidding of course.

Are you saying that all males are incapable of NOT cheating on their significant others? If that's the case, then wouldn't that doom all heterosexual relationships to infidelity as well?

jag

 

[Steve Rogers]

Yeah, the whole fire and brimstone thing is why I don't go to church anymore, I got really sick of hearing what a horrible person I am every week, even when I didn't do anything wrong that week. The Catholic religion sees it as a sin to just be born because Eve ate an apple at the dawn of time, what the hell?!?! We're still paying for that mistake?! God can sure hold a grudge!

Exactly. It's like where does forgiveness come into play here?

 

[Super Kal]

you're right... we still do pay for it.

but He still gives us a chance to make it right with Him.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Are you saying that all males are incapable of NOT cheating on their significant others? If that's the case, then wouldn't that doom all heterosexual relationships to infidelity as well?

jag

You obviously aren't getting the joke.

 

[jaguarr]

You obviously aren't getting the joke.

:rereads initial post:


Ahhhh....you are a sick man. Doing it doggy-style would also qualify under those rules.

jag

 

[amazingfantasy15]

you're right... we still do pay for it.

but He still gives us a chance to make it right with Him.

Why give us life in the first place if he thinks we're scumbag sinners from the word go? Yeah, there's the whole free will thing, we can chose to be good or bad, but I don't like the idea that we're seen as bad from the very beginning, before we even have a chance to do go. It's like start a game already behind in points.

 

[C.F. Kane]

In a nutshell...Catholics are taught since day one that they are screw ups and that they will always be screw ups and that they will always be punished and it's basically a rule through fear mentality. There's a great quote from Dogma "Catholics don't celebrate their relegion; they mourn it."

Ah. Now I follow.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Why give us life in the first place if he thinks we're scumbag sinners from the word go? Yeah, there's the whole free will thing, we can chose to be good or bad, but I don't like the idea that we're seen as bad from the very beginning, before we even have a chance to do go. It's like start a game already behind in points.

LOL Good analogy. I like that. That's why the game of my life is going to be one of the most dramatic comebacks in sports history. We're talking Miracle on Ice style!

 

[Super Kal]

Why give us life in the first place if he thinks we're scumbag sinners from the word go? Yeah, there's the whole free will thing, we can chose to be good or bad, but I don't like the idea that we're seen as bad from the very beginning, before we even have a chance to do go. It's like start a game already behind in points.

I don't believe that we are automatically sinners form the get-go... a child just born does not understand the concept of right and wrong, so therefore, in a sense, he's temporarily protected...

it's not until we grasp the concept of right and wrong that we take up that burden for ourselves...

but even though we do suffer for the mistakes that another person has made, it's not like God says, "you're screwed eternally because of them." He gave us a way to come back to Him... openly and freely.

 

[DBella]

Why give us life in the first place if he thinks we're scumbag sinners from the word go? Yeah, there's the whole free will thing, we can chose to be good or bad, but I don't like the idea that we're seen as bad from the very beginning, before we even have a chance to do good. It's like start a game already behind in points.

Very good point. I too don't like the idea that we are born sinners before we even commit any sins. How can an innocent newborn or a child who doesn't even know the concept of good and evil, who doesn't really know of the choices he/she has be a sinner? It's like a game, you said. We start of with many negative points and try to work our way to get to the positive but as humans, we are bound to make mistakes and therefore, we'll collect more negative points before we can even balance the scale.

 

[Super Kal]

Very good point. I too don't like the idea that we are born sinners before we even commit any sins. How can an innocent newborn or a child who doesn't even know the concept of good and evil, who doesn't really know of the choices he/she has be a sinner? It's like a game, you said. We start of with many negative points and try to work our way to get to the positive but as humans, we are bound to make mistakes and therefore, we'll collect more negative points before we can even balance the scale.

the child isn't a sinner... they don't understand right or wrong yet.

and we may collect " negative points" as we age, but all of those so called points and demerits disappear when we accept Christ into our lives. We start with a completely brand new slate, so to speak.

 

[DBella]

the child isn't a sinner... they don't understand right or wrong yet.

Have you not heard of the original sin? It's a hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam.

 

[jaguarr]

the child isn't a sinner... they don't understand right or wrong yet.

and we may collect " negative points" as we age, but all of those so called points and demerits disappear when we accept Christ into our lives. We start with a completely brand new slate, so to speak.

Just because children don't know they are committing sins doesn't mean that what they are doing isn't a sin. Not knowing is no excuse according to many, many hardline Christians when applied to cultures that weren't ever taught "right" from "wrong", so children don't get a free pass, either. A sinner is a sinner. Whether they repent and accept Jesus or not is what erases their debt.

Sorry...I just read all of that and thought "what a silly system".

jag

 

[Super Kal]

edit: read that wrong

 

[jaguarr]

I'm sorry, jag, you couldn't be any more wrong. The blood of Christ does indeed erase all of our sins that we have done in our lives. Now does that mean that from then on, we're gonna be perfect? no. We still make mistakes, but God loves us enough to forgive us daily from the sins that we commit in our lives.

Didn't I just say that accepting Christ erases the sin debt?

At any rate, a sinner is a sinner, regardless of their age or cultural background according to everything I have every been taught back when I was a Christian. I am now agnostic, though.

jag

 

[Backdrifter]

Does this mean you're gonna ease up on Len Wiseman ? t:

NEVER! t:

 

[Super Kal]

Didn't I just say that accepting Christ erases the sin debt?

yeah, you did... I just read that wrong. sorry

At any rate, a sinner is a sinner, regardless of their age or cultural background according to everything I have every been taught back when I was a Christian.

jag

and Christ still gives us the opportunity be forgiven, no matter how old we are.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

Just because children don't know they are committing sins doesn't mean that what they are doing isn't a sin. Not knowing is no excuse according to many, many hardline Christians when applied to cultures that weren't ever taught "right" from "wrong", so children don't get a free pass, either. A sinner is a sinner. Whether they repent and accept Jesus or not is what erases their debt.

Sorry...I just read all of that and thought "what a silly system".

jag

not really.

like you said, we're all born sinners. And even when you accept god into your life, you will still sin. so theres no such thing as erasing a debt,repenting doesn't do it either. reprenting imo is a way for god to see into your heart, if you repent and honestly try to live a good life(be nice onto others,etc) but you sin again, he'snot going to relaly hold that against you,you can always ask for forgiveness and sin as long as you try to live an honest and unselfish life.

It's all about what is in your heart.

 

[jaguarr]

yeah, you did... I just read that wrong. sorry


and Christ still gives us the opportunity be forgiven, no matter how old we are.

So you agree with me then that children can still be considered sinners.

jag

 

[Super Kal]

not really.

like you said, we're all born sinners. And even when you accept god into your life, you will still sin. so theres no such thing as erasing a debt,repenting doesn't do it either. reprenting imo is a way for god to see into your heart, if you repent and honestly try to live a good life(be nice onto others,etc) but you sin again, he'snot going to relaly hold that against you,you can always ask for forgiveness and sin as long as you try to live an honest and unselfish life.

Exactly... if He didn't forgive us, I probably wouldn't be here today, talking to you right now.

 

[jaguarr]

It's all about what is in your heart.

I wholeheartedly agree with this part of what you wrote and, frankly, belief in God is not really necessary to live a good life as a good person who contributes to society and helps their fellow man. No one is without "sin" and no one will ever be. It's how you try to overcome that inherent shortcoming in all of us that sets you apart.

jag