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Josh Fine Talks Wolverine And The X-men, Season 1

The best place to start is the beginning. As a kid it was the visual and the fact that he was "the strong guy" of the X-Men. Dave Cockrum's design is an iconic one and many artists have worked hard to duplicate it. Even with the simple animation of the 90's series, he came off distinct. Visuals can be important to hook someone in for a moment; Colossus was a guy who turned to metal with a lot of shiney stuff and punches stuff down. I was a simple kid sometimes.

Beyond that, Colossus was a character who I thought worked very well in the team dynamic. Almost to a fault; he probably comes off as boring or generic in a series when he was the star. I wouldn't want to see a COLOSSUS ongoing series and some of his rare mini's weren't always so hot. But he is fine as the star of an arc or a one-shot tale, but usually as being among the team and contrasting with some, or working with others. In the Claremont/Cockrum/Bryne era, Colossus in some ways represented innocence in a way. He left his home to be a hero for greater causes, a point his parents kind of made for him (he was hesitant to leave). While the other X-Men were "new" at the time, Wolverine was the cynical violent rebel, Nightcrawler often the confident ex-circus performer, and Banshee had years of black ops experience. Storm was also a bit naive to things at the time, which is perhaps why the two initially bonded (at one point Storm calls him "the brother I never had"), but she was also formerly worshiped as a goddess. He had strong, heroic ideals and often was simple in how he displayed them. But he usually defended his friends when he had to, and some of those moments when he "stepped up" and was willing to kill were usually defining for me. I mentioned the Proteus one, but the moment when he snaps Riptide's neck during the MORLOCK MASSACRE in the 80's was cool. Considering his status as one of the most "innocent" of the new X-Men, it is probably no accident that Kitty Pryde, who took that role after she debuted in 1980, was drawn to him. She was just spunkier, while at heart he was a Russian farm-boy.

But what I also liked was that unlike the Thing, who was an "average mug" in many ways, Piotr was sensitive and artistic, which at the time seemed unique for a hulking tanker. He was also introverted, but in a different way than Cyclops was. Granted, you have to note that I liked Colossus before I ever learned to like Cyclops.

I guess I also liked that, at least for a majority of his history, he was reliable as the big strong good guy on the X-Men team. He wasn't an anti-hero. He wasn't against killing or being an angry smasher type, but he only did so when he had to. As time went on, Colossus suffered no end of tragedies. His sister was corrupted by demons, his family killed by the KGB, and his older brother becoming an energy-manipulating maniac. The death of his sister caused him to join Magneto's Acolytes, which is really his only foray into being an "anti-hero", but even that didn't last too long by comic standards; a few years. He might have been dead longer than he was an Acolyte. Even as an Acolyte, he was hardly the zealot that some of them were, like Exodus at the time. But by and large, despite his endless moping (and he has moped in the comics for a damn decade if not longer), he still plugs away and wants to be a hero. Even after losing Kitty, yet another tragedy. I mean, damn. The sheer amount of dead loved ones that Colossus has to live through are almost as many as Wolverine. Yet he's rarely cynical, even if he does brood.

In many ways he is similar to Superman, only he isn't an alien and he isn't as powerful, and he got his morals from a non-American family, which isn't as original now as it once was, but I don't know. It still is notable. Especially as Mark Millar imagined a Russian Soviet Era Superman as being a hero of the Commies in RED SON that Piotr avoided.

I also probably related to the idea that despite Colossus doing the best he could a lot, he usually wasn't the big, popular guy. He also usually didn't beat many major menaces for ages of time. Trying to think of defining Colossus power moments in the comics after the 80's gets rough. I mean the Thing could always cling to giving the Hulk a good fight, and the Hulk can beat everyone, but Colossus? Not so often. He usually is the most underwhelming of Marvel's tankers, and even though I hate that, it adds to the underdog status. Even Wolverine is allowed to put in better showings against enemies who clearly outclass him.

I just usually felt he worked well as a perennial supporting X-Man with a cool visual and he smashes stuff when he has to, or tries.
Cool. I like Colossus too, since I have a soft spot for the super strong "tanker" guys (I attribute it to a childhood filled with watching He-Man & The Masters of the Universe).

Speaking of Kitty Pryde, isn't she voiced on this series by the same actress who voiced Batgirl on "THE BATMAN"?

I think over time Jean got typecast in two roles - the Phoenix and the girl Cyclops & Wolverine fight over. More often than not that's what writers seem to boil her down to.

Funny, I was reading the X-MEN: FIRST CLASS comics awhile back, the way they wrote Jean in that reminded me more of how she was written in Evolution than anything else.

Perhaps it would have been easier to have Cyclops hook up with Frost had the series opened with Jean actually being dead & buried as opposed to just missing - which would have required nixing the Phoenix plot. Think of it, the first shot of Cyclops in the present could have been him in the cemetery dropping flowers off at her grave, thinking about the good times they had together; 26 episodes later, he's finally made peace with Jean's death and decides to start a relationship with Frost. Then again if they had gone this route, the cliffhanger probably would have been Jean rising from her grave as the Phoenix and crashing in the backyard of the mansion, turning Scott's life upside down again just when he felt like he was ready to move on. Just a thought.
 
Panthro, I think that might have been a better way to handle the whole Jean/Emma/Scott thing. It might have made Cyke look less like a jerk and would have made one heck of a cliffhanger!
 
I have to say that one of the only things that really stood out for me was Gambit's portrayal. I loved him being a self-interested slime ball. He wasn't always a good guy, you know.
 
Yes, but he never was a villain either!!!! (in the comics at least!) His stint in the Marauders was only because he had to "pay off" his debt to Sinister for altering his powers so he wouldn't be a danger to others, and the second time he seemed to be there to help out the X Men during the whole Messiah Complex mess (and had some plan with Mystique-I'm guessing to kill Sinister), and same goes with the whole Horseman of Death thing. He tried to stop the Morlock massacre-if someone here can find something in the comics where he was a clear cut bad guy, then I will stand corrected.

I see no precedence in the comics where he would do things that would intentionally lead to the loss of innocent life-nor see him as callous at the defeat of an opponent like he was with Wolverine in "Theives Gambit". It would have been more in character to see him as a misguided or conflicted villain like Domino or Scarlet Witch, both who I really like in this series.
 
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Yes, but he never was a villain either!!!! (in the comics at least!) His stint in the Marauders was only because he had to "pay off" his debt to Sinister for altering his powers so he wouldn't be a danger to others, and the second time he seemed to be there to help out the X Men during the whole Messiah Complex mess (and had some plan with Mystique-I'm guessing to kill Sinister), and same goes with the whole Horseman of Death thing. He tried to stop the Morlock massacre-if someone here can find something in the comics where he was a clear cut bad guy, then I will stand corrected.

I see no precedence in the comics where he would do things that would intentionally lead to the loss of innocent life-nor see him as callous at the defeat of an opponent like he was with Wolverine in "Theives Gambit". It would have been more in character to see him as a misguided or conflicted villain like Domino or Scarlet Witch, both who I really like in this series.
The events that you describe are the ones that were written after Marvel... Disney-fied Gambit.

If you remember the old Gambit, you'll remember how gritty and worldly he was. He was almost too dark to be an X-man. He was a chain-smoking, motorcycle-riding thief for hire (all of which suggest callousness). I remember him making a comment about people "always thinking his life is going to end in a dark tunnel". Gambit's life has been sordid and full of danger. He even grew up on the streets for crying out loud. And then he was adopted by the head of a crime syndicate. It isn't at all a stretch that he would be as amoral as he appears here. Again, this is at a time before he tried to turn his life around. This is before he became an X-man - maybe even before he became a Marauder.

And this is the same character who once seriously considered killing Psylocke because of what she may have seen in his mind. Even though he ultimately decided against it, it is significant that it was even considered. It shows his fight between the two sides of him: the one that is trying to change and his old self-preserving side.

I don't think he's out of character at all.
 
I am a hardcore Gambit fan and i disagree. This season they introduced pre X-men Gambit and his personality was spot on if you ask me. Let's face it, Gambit was a selfish scoundrel before he met Storm. He wasn't all bad but he was bad enough to steal, decieve and cheat for money without regard for others. And that's eactly what i like about him. He knows who he is and what he wants and makes no excuses.

I think he was great. He was sneaky, funny, charming and fun. That's a kind of Gambit i haven't seen in a long time. Of course i would like him to join the x-men eventually. But that will be even more interesting if we see him as a morally ambigious thief first. And that's exactly what we got.

I'm a die hard Gambit fan too:woot: I have been following the X Men since the early 80's and Gambit since 1990. I guess we will have to agree to disagree:oldrazz:

If he was so self serving, why did he go to Sinister when he accidently "killed" those people in the theater when he lost control of his powers? Why did he try to stop the Mutant Massacre instead of just letting it happen and stand by the sidelines? Why did he bother saving Storm instead of leaving her to her fate? Why was he stealing from "bad people" only at this period in time (which was mentioned in Uncanny (no ???) when he first hooked up with Storm and later when he was remembering back to when he was theiving from a Nazi in London (one of the Gambit limited series in the 90's, I believe...)The problem he is not "morally ambigious" in this series-he is a 2-D bad guy. The only morally ambigious characters in this series are Domino and the Scarlett Witch.

I agree, he is not a black and white good guy-which is what I love about him! I don't mind him being cast as a villain, as in Evolution. At least there, it was hinted that he had alterior motives for teaming up with Magneto, and he never put innocent bystanders at risk (at least not intentionally:cwink:) The fact that he went and tried to save Jean Luc said a lot about his character. In fact, the most accurate description of Gambit was said by Rogue in that episode "You did the wrong thing for the right reasons." That's Gambit to a tee!

In WTXM he did things that he knew would put innocents at risk, both in Theives Gambit ("You knew the collar would be used against mutants, right?" "Yeah, I knew that." the answer should have been "Don't know, don't care.") and in Aces and Eights, by blowing up Genosha's infrastructure in order to provoke a terrible war AGAINST HIS OWN KIND! It would have made more sense for him to either 1) show up as a Marauder (like in the comics) because of his deal with Sinister or 2) align himself with Magneto because Magneto a) pays better and b) he thinks he might be actually doing some good with his less than moral lifestyle or 3) made him willfully ignorant of the consequences of his actions. Otherwise, I actually like this Gambit better than Evo Gambit-he much more like his comic book counterpart. I really liked his "seduction" of Lorna-that's classic Remy! And they made him really bad-¤ss in this series-I love the fight between him, Mellencamp and Senyaka-he beat the crap out of them without barely moving! How cool is that?
 
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I'm a die hard Gambit fan too:woot: I have been following the X Men since the early 80's and Gambit since 1990. I guess we will have to agree to disagree:oldrazz:

If he was so self serving, why did he go to Sinister when he accidently "killed" those people in the theater when he lost control of his powers? Why did he try to stop the Mutant Massacre instead of just letting it happen and stand by the sidelines? Why did he bother saving Storm instead of leaving her to her fate? Why was he stealing from "bad people" only at this period in time (which was mentioned in Uncanny (no ???) when he first hooked up with Storm and later when he was remembering back to when he was theiving from a Nazi in London (one of the Gambit limited series in the 90's, I believe...)The problem he is not "morally ambigious" in this series-he is a 2-D bad guy. The only morally ambigious characters in this series are Domino and the Scarlett Witch.

I agree, he is not a black and white good guy-which is what I love about him! I don't mind him being cast as a villain, as in Evolution. At least there, it was hinted that he had alterior motives for teaming up with Magneto, and he never put innocent bystanders at risk (at least not intentionally:cwink:) The fact that he went and tried to save Jean Luc said a lot about his character. In fact, the most accurate description of Gambit was said by Rogue in that episode "You did the wrong thing for the right reasons." That's Gambit to a tee!

In WTXM he did things that he knew would put innocents at risk, both in Theives Gambit ("You knew the collar would be used against mutants, right?" "Yeah, I knew that." the answer should have been "Don't know, don't care.") and in Aces and Eights, by blowing up Genosha's infrastructure in order to provoke a terrible war AGAINST HIS OWN KIND! It would have made more sense for him to either 1) show up as a Marauder (like in the comics) because of his deal with Sinister or 2) align himself with Magneto because Magneto a) pays better and b) he thinks he might be actually doing some good with his less than moral lifestyle or 3) made him willfully ignorant of the consequences of his actions. Otherwise, I actually like this Gambit better than Evo Gambit-he much more like his comic book counterpart. I really liked his "seduction" of Lorna-that's classic Remy! And they made him really bad-¤ss in this series-I love the fight between him, Mellencamp and Senyaka-he beat the crap out of them without barely moving! How cool is that?

Like i said, Gambit isn't all bad. He's just bad enough to operate as a thief/spy without having any moral hiccups. I think WATXM illustrated that perfectly.

Gambit's a thief who happens to be a mutant, not the other way around. So it makes sense for him to betray "his own kind" for money. I don't even think Gambit saw it like that or cared about the fight for mutant rights. He was just doing his job.

I don't consider him a 2-D villain either. The fact that he helped Wolverine steal back the mutant collar from the MRD proves that it's just a matter of what's in it for him. It's not like he willfully wants to hurt his fellow mutants. Same goes for his role in Aces & Eights. One could argue that he did it for the good of the normal humans, to which Magneto posed a treath. I think Gambit's just a guy who does whatever he needs to to get by.

Don't get me wrong though. i would like to see Gambit become more of a hero too but until then, i'm enjoying this devil may care scoundrel. He reminds me of early 90's Gambit.
 
C'mon EvilClare. Do you mean to tell us that you don't enjoy Gambit's dark side even a little? I've always wanted to see it.
 
C'mon EvilClare. Do you mean to tell us that you don't enjoy Gambit's dark side even a little? I've always wanted to see it.


I love his darker side-like I said, it makes him a far more interesting character! But there is a line between a dark antihero and a sociopath! I get what Johnson and Co are trying to get at, but they need to make him a bit (just a bit!) more sympathetic. Like I said many times before, I don't mind him at all as a "bad" guy-I love all that is Thieves Guild!!!! I just prefer him a bit more closer to what he has been portrayed in the comics, that's all... But again, as I said before, I am quite pleased with his portrayal in this series otherwise. I don't even mind Phil LeMarr's weird version of Cajun English!

And as far as Gambit "helping" Wolverine getting the collar back; he didn't "help" at all-Wolverine had to offer him double the pay he got from Sybil Zane, and still Gambit wasn't satisfied-I don't remember him being so greedy in the comics. He wasn't a saint, but that was a bit out of character.
 
I think I understand what EvilClareToo is getting at about Gambit, albeit in a roundabout anime sort of way. She's saying that Gambit can be written as a thief without being written as if his morals are fuzzy or non-existent. While I have never really been a Gambit fan, I AM a fan of an anime franchise character named Lupin the Third, who is the supposed Grandson of the old French Thief Arsene Lupin. He's a thief but he usually only steals from those rich enough to take the loss, and he almost always turns against bigger villains. If he stole a mutant control collar and was told it would be used to enslave mutants, he wouldn't need to be offered cash to destroy it for the greater good (or to steal it back from said wicked employer).

Cool. I like Colossus too, since I have a soft spot for the super strong "tanker" guys (I attribute it to a childhood filled with watching He-Man & The Masters of the Universe).

Speaking of Kitty Pryde, isn't she voiced on this series by the same actress who voiced Batgirl on "THE BATMAN"?

I think over time Jean got typecast in two roles - the Phoenix and the girl Cyclops & Wolverine fight over. More often than not that's what writers seem to boil her down to.

Funny, I was reading the X-MEN: FIRST CLASS comics awhile back, the way they wrote Jean in that reminded me more of how she was written in Evolution than anything else.

Perhaps it would have been easier to have Cyclops hook up with Frost had the series opened with Jean actually being dead & buried as opposed to just missing - which would have required nixing the Phoenix plot. Think of it, the first shot of Cyclops in the present could have been him in the cemetery dropping flowers off at her grave, thinking about the good times they had together; 26 episodes later, he's finally made peace with Jean's death and decides to start a relationship with Frost. Then again if they had gone this route, the cliffhanger probably would have been Jean rising from her grave as the Phoenix and crashing in the backyard of the mansion, turning Scott's life upside down again just when he felt like he was ready to move on. Just a thought.

Yes, Shadowcat's VA is the same as Batgirl in THE BATMAN. Batgirl was often very very annoying, writing wise. I think she voices Kitty fine, although, yeah, she doesn't sound as sweet as "valley girl" did. Oh, well. Maybe it's just me. I was younger and more impressionable when Evolution was new. I was barely out of high school. :p

Jean does get typecast in those ways. I see Phoenix as something that happens TO her and not enough to define her unto itself. Jeff Parker did a good job of X-MEN: FIRST CLASS, and did have some fun with the idea that she was the only girl on the team.

Season 1 was dependent on the Phoenix plot at the end, so I don't think that could have easily been nixed. It wasn't executed entirely smoothly but it was at the end of their long season arc. I do agree that it might have made for more drama had Scott started to "move on" with Frost and THEN they found Jean. The dilemma of it is that Jean was off screen for much of the series and didn't really count as a character, so the writers knew they couldn't off her in the finale and expect much sympathy. So, they went with Frost for the tragedy. Which is fine for Season 1 in a way but leaves things a mess for Season 2, or at least harder to iron out.
 

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