Marvel at San Diego Comic Con 2010

[Themanofbat]

And it's not like Marvel Editorial comes around at the last minute with changes to the characters that have their own books... JMS knew things that were going to go down with Civil War and played with it... he also knew that OMD was going to be the last story he wrote, knowingly that it was going to eliminate the marriage... the only difference there is that the JMS story would have eliminated 30 years of history, including Sins Past (which is what he wanted), and the edited version that we read maintains that continuity still happened sans marriage, which means that Sins Past still happened...

 

[Themanofbat]

I found Superman #701 to be fantastic.

I can't be bothered... I read the same story years ago when JMS wrote Midnight Nation

 

[Brainiac 8]

I found Superman #701 to be fantastic.

It wasn't bad per se, but I have to give it a bit of time to see if I really like the new direction.

I do like the idea that Superman is wanting to relate to humans at their own level. We'll see though, I'm just glad all the 'new Krypton' stuff is finally behind us.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It had some good moments but "fantastic" is a huge overstatement to me. The best thing I can say about it is that JMS is finally taking it back to basics and just allowing Superman to be Superman again instead of slapping him with all the gimmicks Johns came up with. On the other hand, the premise doesn't really lend itself to any kind of progression; JMS has effectively said that it's just Superman walking around and interacting with people for a year. So I'm still deciding whether I want to buy #702 based on whether or not I could go for another 11 solid issues of the same kind of thing as #701.

 

[hippie_hunter]

And it's not like Marvel Editorial comes around at the last minute with changes to the characters that have their own books... JMS knew things that were going to go down with Civil War and played with it... he also knew that OMD was going to be the last story he wrote, knowingly that it was going to eliminate the marriage... the only difference there is that the JMS story would have eliminated 30 years of history, including Sins Past (which is what he wanted), and the edited version that we read maintains that continuity still happened sans marriage, which means that Sins Past still happened...

JMS didn't want OMD to happen to begin with. He just simply agreed to write it. Same with Civil War. He agreed to play ball, but he still hated it. And I think that's what tainted his views on events and wanted nothing to do with Siege.

 

[Themanofbat]

JMS didn't want OMD to happen to begin with.

I'm not too sure about that one... I'll have to revisit some old interviews...

 

[hippie_hunter]

I'm not too sure about that one... I'll have to revisit some old interviews...

Marvel editorial came up with the story idea and then offered JMS either end his run before they started it or let him write it himself. He chose to play ball, but in the end was very, very unhappy about it.

Just read the way that he wrote the Peter/Mary Jane marriage. Along with the fact that he restored the marriage. Do you really think that he would want to end it? I really, really doubt that JMS would have ever even thought of OMD if editorial didn't go to him about it.

 

[THANOSRULES]

If true , I can frankly understand why Marvel had to step in with JMS.

Not like the guy wasnt given some good freedom to create some wacked spider man stories (lets see gwen stacy was raped/or he wanted them to be peter's kids and The Other), entrusted with the long awaited Thor relaunch, one of the most anticipated comic relaunches ever. And then there was squadron supreme.

In the case of Thor and Squadron, I'm sorry but the decompression was legandary. Even in today's market. They were not really bad persay, but when i take a step back from what we were given I find the Thor relaunch seemed like it could have gone better, and more accuratly was just going to slow. With a hot movie coming out it was not the right fit for the mainline ongoing. That is painfully obvious.

I can't imagine giving JMS that arc or 2 more

Squadron Supreme just was an utter failure, especially when you compare it to the gruenwald work. Polar opposites. It was funny becuase after this Squadron debacle i swore I'd never read JMS again, I had the discipline to resist his take on Silver Surfer, but I mean I pretty much had to buy Thor.

Who knows what really set off this current tiff. I can't imagine marvel started hearing fans grips about JMS and acted...if that were true Bendis and Loeb are just as guilty.

It's most likely just a plain old personality conflict. If DC gets JMS so be it. I would however like Jim Starlin or Bagely back!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The pacing was fine on Thor, I thought. It was slow, yes, but not in a crawling sort of way. It felt slow because that was kind of what Thor needed, what with the scope of the myriad changes he was bringing to himself and his fellow Asgardians. It gave the story a sense of grandeur to me, I guess. But the relative slowness of the pace was compounded a lot by the fact that it took 2 years for 13 issues to come out.

Granted, after the return of all the Asgardians, the pace could've stood to pick up a bit, but I really have no complaints about JMS' run from Blake convincing Thor to return through the fight with Bor and Thor's subsequent exile. Then the pace really started crawling.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I don't know, even without all the delays I felt the story really crawled, especially when it was hitting issues 8 or 9 (or somewhere in that general time period). It didn't make it bad, but I really do feel as if JMS could have easily done all that he did, and kept that same sense, in about 8 issues. I always figured he drew it out because he wanted to make sure the big fight happened with issue 600 so he paced it very slow

 

[Drz]

But the relative slowness of the pace was compounded a lot by the fact that it took 2 years for 13 issues to come out.

How does Marvel let this happen? or JMS? I guess JMS gets royalty checks from his earlier work so he isn't in a huge dire need of cash, but how was it that Marvel allowed Coipel to do 13 Thor issues in 2 years, while hes suppose to have done 24.

 

[Tron Bonne]

How does Marvel let this happen? or JMS? I guess JMS gets royalty checks from his earlier work so he isn't in a huge dire need of cash, but how was it that Marvel allowed Coipel to do 13 Thor issues in 2 years, while hes suppose to have done 24.

I think it's pretty much become a given at this point that certain artists are going to be slow, and that the big two tend to roll with it nowadays. As far as I'm aware, there isn't in penalty in place for it, and even when it really ****s up other things (Civil War, for example), they will still more or less just go with it

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I heard rumors that the last 6 or so issues were super-delayed not because of JMS or Coipel, but because JMS had already decided to leave and they were looking for his replacement. But I never really looked for confirmation of it or anything.

 

[Themanofbat]

Marvel editorial came up with the story idea and then offered JMS either end his run before they started it or let him write it himself. He chose to play ball, but in the end was very, very unhappy about it.

Just read the way that he wrote the Peter/Mary Jane marriage. Along with the fact that he restored the marriage. Do you really think that he would want to end it? I really, really doubt that JMS would have ever even thought of OMD if editorial didn't go to him about it.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=12238

Read this part...

I also think fans are misreading what Joe meant by disagreeing with the story. When we came up with the idea and methodology behind "One More Day," Joe was a part of the group that came up with the story. When we were done and felt we had it nailed, Joe told me that he was going to cycle off of "Amazing Spider-Man" and that he wanted to move on to other stuff. I told Joe that it was his call: He could close out his "Amazing Spider-Man" run however he wanted, or he could end it with the story we all created for "One More Day." He said he really wanted to write "One More Day." So Joe never said anything that indicated he disagreed with Peter and MJ's marriage being dissolved. If he had disagreed with the idea, he certainly would have told us and he certainly would not have asked to write the story. So like I said, I think people were reading into his on-line comments as opposed what I believe he was saying.

It doesn't sound like Joe was against the ending of the marriage...

 

[mre]

In the current storyline, there's a lot that I don't agree with, and I made this very clear to everybody within shouting distance at Marvel, especially Joe. I'll be honest: there was a point where I made the decision, and told Joe, that I was going to take my name off the last two issues of the OMD arc.

In a series of interviews with Quesada about “One More Day,” Comic Book Resource’s Jonah Weiland asked the Marvel Editor-in-Chief about Straczynski’s posted comments, noting that, “In the end, we didn't publish the story he wanted to write.”

Quesada also explained that he wasn’t comfortable with Straczynski’s method of retconning the marriage out of existence, saying: “Also, the science that Joe was going to apply to the retcon of the marriage would have made over 30 years of Spider-Man books worthless, because they never would have had happened.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756

This is a pretty interesting article about OMD & JQ & JMS
Probably the most informative.

 

[THANOSRULES]

How does Marvel let this happen? or JMS? I guess JMS gets royalty checks from his earlier work so he isn't in a huge dire need of cash, but how was it that Marvel allowed Coipel to do 13 Thor issues in 2 years, while hes suppose to have done 24.

Marvel letting it happen is exactly what disproves JMS! They DO give a long leash to their talent, and it is painfully obvious. To top it off, they do it for the Tier 1 CASH COW ongoing books, and event books.

I'm not sure why I have thrown in to defend Marvel here..JMS is acting like such a whiner, frankly, I doubt much of what he says as anything more than petty.

Even if JMS is right that many of those ideas were not his original intent, often times the stuff that comes out as his intended direction is even WORSE.

Marvel has proven it will DERAIL its continuity for talent. So many examples in the last 10 years. Heinberg in YA / holding wanda's reappearence, Millar's ultimates 2 creating snafus with the Ultimate line. Loeb's horrid everything. There are a zillion more. I'd hardly call Marvel's ideas conservative on their own continuity also.

I think everything JMS has ever done had a crappy side ...I read JMS anything and i say "man this is really drawn out" or "man it started out interesting but it really went to **** after issue X"

Why can't talent leave with class and dignity. Just be the bigger guy and say you alwyas wanted to write supes or WW.

 

[runawayboulder]

I can't be bothered... I read the same story years ago when JMS wrote Midnight Nation

Why because they both have people walking across country? Superman it isn't exactly fighting for his soul here.....he's trying to get back in touch with the people who feel abandoned by him. If anything it's comparative to Superman Returns.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Why because they both have people walking across country? Superman it isn't exactly fighting for his soul here.....he's trying to get back in touch with the people who feel abandoned by him. If anything it's comparative to Superman Returns.

Yeah, in concept, but the execution is significantly different.

 

[runawayboulder]

I'm not so sure about that.....

 

[Tron Bonne]

I am. In Superman Returns he basically just went back to flying around, fighting terrorists, saving planes, and etc. In 'Grounded' Superman is going on a journey across American to reconnect with the 'little people'. Sounds pretty different to me.

 

[runawayboulder]

But after 5 years away people got used to the idea of not having him around, especially Lois Lane.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I know, I am agreeing with on the concept. At the core, they are essentially the same concept; Superman returning to Earth after absence and reintegrating back into the human world. But the execution seems really different from what I can tell.

And I'm not particularly knocking either of them mind you

 

[runawayboulder]

I know. Even in Kingdom Come it was the same plot device that was driving the story.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But after 5 years away people got used to the idea of not having him around, especially Lois Lane.

Judging from Cancer Lady's reaction, people didn't exactly get used to not having Superman around after his year on New Krypton...