MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Bayne]

Very circumstance influenced:

If they start in melee range with no weapons, Bushmaster 10/10.

Melee range, Hawkeye has a sword or gun, Bushmaster 6/10.


Bow range, Hawkeye has useful arrows and is shooting to kill, Hawkeye 10/10

I'd agree with that,yeah.

 

[Iceman]

Very circumstance influenced:

If they start in melee range with no weapons, Bushmaster 10/10.

Melee range, Hawkeye has a sword or gun, Bushmaster 6/10.


Bow range, Hawkeye has useful arrows and is shooting to kill, Hawkeye 10/10

I don’t even have to exert my brain this time, you covered it.

 

[metaphysician]

Can Steve die by sniper? unresolved

I mean, if he actually got hit and it was a sufficiently powerful weapon, I'm sure he could. You'd probably want something bigger than just your "standard" sniper rifle, since he is superhumanly durable, but he's not invincible. The problem is, under most circumstances, you are going to have a very hard time actually setting up Steve to be sniped. Realistically you need 100% surprise, because if he has any inkling of the incoming attack he's pretty much going to be impossible to hit. That leaves a prospective sniper with a dilemma:

1. Set up a sniper attack from maximum possible range, ensuring that Steve doesn't spot it coming, but making it unlikely that the first shot is going to be instantly fatal ( unless your name is Hawkeye, you aren't scoring a headshot from five miles away ).

2. Set up a sniper attack close enough to at least attempt an instant killshot, but leaving yourself close enough that Steve's preternatural perception has a chance of spotting you before you attack ( glint off a scope, insufficiently concealed sniper blind, etc ).

 

[metaphysician]

Bushmaster vs Hawkeye:

Depends on the engagement range, but basically, unless Bushmaster starts at near melee range? Hawkeye should take it. Bushmaster is tough but not *that* tough, and Hawkeye's trick arrows pack quite a large amount of firepower. Even being generous to Bushmaster, the first hit is going to leave him woozey and vulnerable for a second incap shot. And honestly, that's probably being generous ( or assuming that Clint is deliberately trying not to kill the dude and not jumping straight to "knock Loki on his ass" levels of firepower ).

 

[antboy]

I mean, if he actually got hit and it was a sufficiently powerful weapon, I'm sure he could. You'd probably want something bigger than just your "standard" sniper rifle, since he is superhumanly durable, but he's not invincible. The problem is, under most circumstances, you are going to have a very hard time actually setting up Steve to be sniped. Realistically you need 100% surprise, because if he has any inkling of the incoming attack he's pretty much going to be impossible to hit. That leaves a prospective sniper with a dilemma:

1. Set up a sniper attack from maximum possible range, ensuring that Steve doesn't spot it coming, but making it unlikely that the first shot is going to be instantly fatal ( unless your name is Hawkeye, you aren't scoring a headshot from five miles away ).

2. Set up a sniper attack close enough to at least attempt an instant killshot, but leaving yourself close enough that Steve's preternatural perception has a chance of spotting you before you attack ( glint off a scope, insufficiently concealed sniper blind, etc ).

I mentioned them pulling a "JFK".. meaning, from a clandestine hidden location, a headshot, even an exploding round to the head. One of them is adjusting for wind speed and direction, the other is waiting for that perfect moment. Steve's going down. Kinda like that movie Mile 22

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm guessing Bushmaster wins.............next up: Battle of the bugs!!

Antman

vs Spiderman

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Bayne]

If Ant-Man uses his abilities to the best possible extent, Spidey is headed on an instant and irreversible trip to the Quantum Realm.

If he goes for the second best use of them, he and an army of giant ants might be able to overwhelm Spider-man.

If he tries to physically fight Spidey one-on-one he's going down.

So Spider-man 7/10 because Scott's not great at making the right decisions.

 

[metaphysician]

Ant-Man vs Spider-man:

Honestly, Ant-Man should win every time. Even if he just goes big, if he goes big against Spider-man and only Spider-man, there really shouldn't be anything Peter can do about it. Note that in the Civil War fight, Spidey had a bunch of *much* brickier teammates to take advantage of temporary unbalancing.

 

[Batmannerism]

If Ant-Man uses his abilities to the best possible extent, Spidey is headed on an instant and irreversible trip to the Quantum Realm.



If he goes for the second best use of them, he and an army of giant ants might be able to overwhelm Spider-man.



If he tries to physically fight Spidey one-on-one he's going down.



So Spider-man 7/10 because Scott's not great at making the right decisions.

I'd agree with that. Pete's spider sense didnt warn him about tiny Scott in Civil War, but he should still be able to stand up to any punishment Scott can dish out - given he was hit by a TGV train at speed and survived with minor injuries.

 

[Bayne]

Ant-Man vs Spider-man:

Honestly, Ant-Man should win every time. Even if he just goes big, if he goes big against Spider-man and only Spider-man, there really shouldn't be anything Peter can do about it. Note that in the Civil War fight, Spidey had a bunch of *much* brickier teammates to take advantage of temporary unbalancing.

I'd have to say you're seriously underestimating the brickiness of Spider-man there.

I don't think there's anyone in that fight who's undisputably brickier than him other than Vision.

 

[Luigi]

Spider-Man

If this was rookie Peter from Civil War, then it would be a much different story.

 

[metaphysician]

I am *absolutely* comfortable saying that both Iron Man and War Machine are well brickier than Spider-man. Spider-man is in the same weight class as the super soldiers, while Starktech armor is well above that.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Hands down Spidey!!!

 

[Docker2.0]

I am *absolutely* comfortable saying that both Iron Man and War Machine are well brickier than Spider-man. Spider-man is in the same weight class as the super soldiers, while Starktech armor is well above that.

Spiderman is NOT in the weight class as the super soldiers. I'd say he's twice as strong as them.

 

[Docker2.0]

Spiderman wins. Next up:

Daredevil

vs The Winter Soldier

who you got peeps?!

 

[The Caped Knight]

Winter Soldier!!!!

 

[Batmannerism]

Spiderman is NOT in the weight class as the super soldiers. I'd say he's twice as strong as them.

Difficult to say. Strength wise, we see him lift a massive gantry to an airplane and shift slabs of

Concrete off himself.





Durability wise, being hit by the train is a very impressive feat. A TGV train can travel over 200mph - so surviving an impact at even half that speed with relatively minor injuries is impressive. Somehow I feel like thats above super soldier class - but then I cant understand how they can jump out of airplanes and be unharmed, yet 2 bullets to the chest will kill them.

But yeah, I'd put Spidey a weight class up from the MCU Super soldiers.

Spiderman wins. Next up:



Daredevil





vs The Winter Soldier





who you got peeps?!

Winter Soldier 100%. Daredevil would barely be able to slow him down.

 

[Luigi]

Bucky would steamroll poor old Matt.

 

[metaphysician]

Daredevil vs Bucky:

Matt may have gotten an implicit power bump based on his appearance in She-Hulk, but its way too modest to matter against Bucky. Like, he'll be good at not-dying for an impressive length of time, but its not going to change the fundamental dynamics of him being completely out of his weight class.

 

[Docker2.0]

You guys sure are cutting Daredevil super short but I digress. Next up:

Namor

vs White Vision

Who you got peeps?!

 

[Batmannerism]

You guys sure are cutting Daredevil super short but I digress. Next up:

Namor

vs White Vision

Who you got peeps?!

Well, assuming White Vision has the same degree of power as regular Vision, except maybe the mind stone blasts, I'll go with White Vision.

As powerful as Namor is, for a 500 year old warrior he's kind of **** against superhuman opponents.

While he could damage Vision with a vibranium spear, Vision could conceivably phase a hand inside his head and its game over.

 

[Luigi]

White Vision

Basically Vision with a paint job but much more ruthless and single-minded about eliminating his target. As mentioned above, Namor simply hasn't had that much practice against super-powered opponents.

 

[metaphysician]

Namor vs White Vision:

I like Namor and tend to think he's underrated a tad here, but yeah. Even the diet resurrected Vision should win this fight more often than not. Ultimately in the MCU Vision has gotten something of a power buff relative to the comics, putting him in the rough "Top Tier Bricks Who Are Not Thor/Hulk" category, versus being a rank or so further down. Vision would have to take the fight seriously, sure, but he has both ranged attacks of relevant heft and intangibility, that's more than enough to counter any marginal advantage Namor might have in fighting skill.

 

[Batgirl0202]

Well Namor was clearly put in the same strength category as Hulk in WF so he has that going for him. But overall I don't think he's in the same class as White Vision. I can't see his ankle wings or underwater breathing ability doing much to tip the scales...

I'll go White Vision as well.

 

[metaphysician]

Oh, sure. The intent is that Namor is a top tier brick, maybe not equal to Thor or Hulk but on the level just beneath them. Which makes sense, that is what he is in the comics. The problem is that Vision is *also* on that level in the movies, unlike the comics, so Namor doesn't have his usual "I am class 100 you are class 70" advantage to play with. He can't play the game of "You need to deliver an extended beat down to wear me out, where as I only need to hit you once to clobber you".