My Neighbor must think I'm racist! What do I do? (plus a question about racism)

[Mrs. Sawyer]

And she's a achieved her goal: derailing a thread and being attention ****e seeker.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

so let's get back on topic, is Shemtov racist? eh, maybe a little. Not in the malicious sense, just in the thoughtless "oh look an asian, he must speak japanese or han chinese" way.

 

[Immortalfire]

I for one, think you're overly worried about a simple error. Personally, I would have just said Hi or Hello and go from there.

 

[Immortalfire]

When you run into blondes...do you start speaking Swedish to them?

I do. Should I not?

 

[Dark Raven]

so let's get back on topic, is Shemtov racist? eh, maybe a little. Not in the malicious sense, just in the thoughtless "oh look an asian, he must speak japanese or han chinese" way.

Well it might not be explicitly and actively racist in the sense of doing something actively against someone in an exclusionary or prevenative way (eg persecuting, discriminating, etc). However, in one sense it kind of is the more I've thought about it, because it's stemming from an implicit racist attitude or assumption which not everyone even realises they have and may not even be deliberate. And I think he proved that the more this thread went on when he was still not clear on the real issue and thinking it's just to do with whether the person is Chinese or Japanese as if the offence were as simple as that.

There are lots of people with racist attitudes where they do or think something without even realising, but would swear they were absolutely not racist. It's a matter of educating them, which I think parts of this thread does.

 

[Kane52630]

You know, I have people jumping to conclusions I'm a racist because I was watching the last few episodes of Gilligan's Island and they were offended by the subject matter of the episodes I was watching like this innocuous 60's comedy series was speaking directly to them. Well, like for instance the second to last episode I watched was about the Howells adopting Gilligan. And some of the people who I suppose might be like the Howells were red faced and annoyed by it. My opinion is that they are all overacting to things that they might be feeling insecure about. And really if they were offended by that one episode why even bother watching it with me in the first place if it upset them? Is it because someone associated with them is having a fictional moment mirroring real life? I'm thinking that's the answer. But really Gilligan's Island is just a show. This is seriously why I do not choose to hang out with certain people, especially ones with geographical genetics known to produce hot heads that flip out over the most innocuous of things like an old TV program.

 

[B]

Before the main post, 2 facts about myself:
1. I am learning Chinese and Japanese
2. Unlike the stereotypical version of a white American, I can usually tell the difference between East Asian nationalities just by looking at them.

Anyhow, I have a neighbor who's East Asian. For some reason, I thought he was Japanese. I saw him tonight and greeted him in Japanese,"Kombanwa". He gave me a nasty Look and I realized my mistake: He was in fact, Chinese.
He must think I'm a total racist!
What do I do?

Also, was it racist of me to try to greet him in Japanese seeing as I thought he was Japanese?

No. It wasn't racist & he shouldn't think it was racist. If he does, he is an idiot.

This is what I like to call a simple mistake.

 

[terry78]

No. It wasn't racist & he shouldn't think it was racist. If he does, he is an idiot.

This is what I like to call a simple mistake.

Talking to someone you don't know very well and basically assuming they speak the language they look like is KINDA racist.

 

[B]

Talking to someone you don't know very well and basically assuming they speak the language they look like is KINDA racist.

It's not racist at all.

If I mistake an Englishman for an Australian is that offensive? or a Polish person for a Russian?

If people are offended by such a thing they really need to get over themselves.

 

[Schlosser85]

It's not racist at all.

If I mistake an Englishman for an Australian is that offensive? or a Polish person for a Russian?

If people are offended by such a thing they really need to get over themselves.

The difference is Shemtov just assumed the guy is foreign based in his appearance. For all he knew, the guy was born in Ohio.

 

[Dark Raven]

It's not racist at all.

If I mistake an Englishman for an Australian is that offensive? or a Polish person for a Russian?

If people are offended by such a thing they really need to get over themselves.

After all this you still don't get it. You still think the issue is just one of mistaking one person's race for another.

The fact that you don't get it, think it's just a matter of a simple mistake and that people need to get over themselves shows your complete ignorance here.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

it's like assuming "oh hey, this guy's asian, he must know kung fu." that's the problem here, assuming something about somebody else based on their ethnicity.

 

[Victarion]

Just say Hi, sorry about the misunderstanding. Explain your interest in the language, culture etc.

 

[B]

After all this you still don't get it. You still think the issue is just one of mistaking one person's race for another.

The fact that you don't get it, think it's just a matter of a simple mistake and that people need to get over themselves shows your complete ignorance here.

Errr no I don't, Shemtov presumed that the guy was foreign & more precisely Japanese (even though he was Chinese). He could have been born in Texas & never even set foot in Japan (or China).

However if someone is for arguements sake is of Japanese descent, it's not racist to say hello to someone in Japanese. I don't believe he presumed he spoke fluent Japanese & was looking for a conversation in Japanese, he was just saying hello.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Errr no I don't, Shemtov presumed that the guy was foreign & more precisely Japanese (even though he was Chinese). He could have been born in Texas & never even set foot in Japan (or China).

However if someone is for arguements sake is of Japanese descent, it's not racist to say hello to someone in Japanese. I don't believe he presumed he spoke fluent Japanese & was looking for a conversation in Japanese, he was just saying hello.

It's probably not racist, but it's still stupid of him to assume someone of Asian descent speaks whatever Asian dialect you happen to speak at them. Everyone knows about what happens when you assume something.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

um...yeah, it kind of is. he's an American citizen, the dominant language is English. treat him like an American citizen, and greet him in English.

 

[B]

The difference is Shemtov just assumed the guy is foreign based in his appearance. For all he knew, the guy was born in Ohio.

Would you be offended if for some reason I thought you were Canadian because of your accent/appearence/whatever & while casually walking past said "bonjour" to you?

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I would think you were an idiot, tbh.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I would think you were an idiot, tbh.

I would too. Plus, most Canadians probably speak English so speaking French would be kind of a poor choice.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

yeah, quebec and montreal are they only regions I know in canada that speak primarily french.

 

[B]

It's probably not racist, but it's still stupid of him to assume someone of Asian descent speaks whatever Asian dialect you happen to speak at them. Everyone knows about what happens when you assume something.

um...yeah, it kind of is. he's an American citizen, the dominant language is English. treat him like an American citizen, and greet him in English.

I do agree it was silly, if it were me, I'd have just said hello regardless of how many other languages I can speak.

Assumption is the mother of all **** ups.

 

[B]

I would think you were an idiot, tbh.

Exactly, but you wouldn't be offended by it.

I would too. Plus, most Canadians probably speak English so speaking French would be kind of a poor choice.

I know I'm just using it as an example of something similar so you understand my perspective.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

who the hell are you to assume what I'm not offended by?

 

[B]

who the hell are you to assume what I'm not offended by?

Well would you?

 

[Dark Raven]

B. you make out that the neighbour in question was overly sensitive. The fact is that many western-born Asians would be offended, not by the fact of saying something to them in an Asian language itself, but making an assumption about them based on their appearance that they must automatically be a certain way - whether that's to do with them being automatically fluent in an Asian tongue, that they must do kung fu, that they can't understand English properly, that they're computer/engineering nerds etc.

Not everyone will show their offence and of course, some will be thicker skinned than others depending on their experiences and personality, but nevertheless it is an issue, and not one that can be dismissed as not having anything to do with racial stereotyping and just merely a simple mistake.

Failure to recognise and acknowledge one's own ethnocentrism and the stereotypes and assumptions formed as a result of one's own ethnocentrism is already a barrier to a proper racial understanding and cultural sensitivity. The fact is that we are ALL ethnocentric in some way, but when a person fails to see that his own values, experiences, standards and upbringing affect the way he perceives, judges and forms stereotypes about others, that's when he can become dismissive that there is an issue and write it off as the other person simply being too sensitive and that they shouldn't be offended.

Whether he meant it or not, Shemtov's own ethnocentrism led him to stereotyping his neighbour, because he was drawing upon his own values, standards and experience and making a judgment that his Asian neighbour must and would be able to understand the language he greeted him in, based upon his physical appearance.

Your own ethnocentrism is leading you to make statements and give examples subsequent to my last post that still continue to prove that you don't fully grasp the issues affecting western Asians and thereby dismissing that there should be any offence.

And admittedly yes, many Asians' own ethnocentrism may lead them to assume that someone is being deliberately racist when they might not necessarily be, but that doesn't negate the fact that one shouldn't be making automatic assumptions about them either based on their race.