OFFICIAL: Best CBM of 2014 thread (so far)

[Flint Marko]

Shows how much the interest in that franchise is waning.

It's a sad day for us Spider-man fans, I truly hope that doesn't hurt the brand long term.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

​

I actually found Mangold's installment to be serviceable at best, but other than that you and I are on the same page

Yeah I agree with this, even as a fan of the films it feels a little too much like a soap opera at times.

I think Mangold's effort is a really good movie, that only gets better with repeat viewings. The more violent EE cut especially is really good, I recommend you watch that version if you haven't already, even if you have, give it another try.

I disagree about the movies feelng too much like a soap opera as well, I think the amount of great emotional scenes we get in the X-movies is what sets them apart and gives them more gravitas than other CBMs. While Marvel, for sample has been really consistent in churning out good movies, they haven't really made a truly great CBMS yet in my eyes. I think this is because they often drop the ball with emotional scenes were as the x-movies nail them every time. I think this is the reason the stakes and consequences always seem more real in the X-Men movies as well, and this is also why there are 2/3 great movies in that series.

TWS and even more so GOTG were a step in the right direction though in this regard for Marvel.

 

[Flint Marko]

I think Mangold's effort is a really good movie, that only gets better with repeat viewings. The more violent EE cut especially is really good, I recommend you watch that version if you haven't already, even if you have, give it another try.

I admittedly have not seen it in quite some time, I own it on blu ray but I haven't watched it since I bought it around a year ago. I'll revisit it soon and see if I come to a different conclusion.

I disagree about the movies feelng too much like a soap opera as well, I think the amount of great emotional scenes we get in the X-movies is what sets them apart and gives them more gravitas than other CBMs. While Marvel, for sample has been really consistent in churning out good movies, they haven't really made a truly great CBMS yet in my eyes. I think this is because they often drop the ball with emotional scenes were as the x-movies nail them every time. I think this is the reason the stakes and consequences always seem more real in the X-Men movies as well, and this is also why there are 2/3 great movies in that series.

I think Marvel's emotional scenes are compelling, but somewhat understated when you compare them to Singer's stuff on the X-men. Captain America, which might be my favorite phase 1 film, is full of great moments and lines that really get me to the heart of the character. While certain movies in their filmography leave something to be desired in this respect, I usually don't have a problem connecting with the characters and their emotional journey.

TWS and even more so GOTG were a step in the right direction though in this regard for Marvel.

Agreed on that, two of their best yet I think

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I admittedly have not seen it in quite some time, I own it on blu ray but I haven't watched it since I bought it around a year ago. I'll revisit it soon and see if I come to a different conclusion.

If you have the EE/more violent cut, I would advise you watch that version. It doesnt make a huge difference to the movie like say the Daredevil DC, but what it does add certainly improves the movie as a whole, also making the action a bit more brutal and better. I honestly dont think I could watch the theatrical version anymore.

I think Marvel's emotional scenes are compelling, but somewhat understated when you compare them to Singer's stuff on the X-men. Captain America, which might be my favorite phase 1 film, is full of great moments and lines that really get me to the heart of the character. While certain movies in their filmography leave something to be desired in this respect, I usually don't have a problem connecting with the characters and their emotional journey.

I thought Thor was the phase 1 movie which did this best personally. Cap 1 was a movie I really disliked for a while, I couldnt get into it. Then once I saw Avengers and re-watched it, the movie just clicked with me like it never had before. I now I enjoy it the more I watch it. I think Thor and Cap 1 had the best emotional moments in phase 1 and this makes them so enjoyable to re-watch. I thought after those 2 Marvel had turned a corner in this regard. Then IM3 and Thor 2 happened, were everything, even the emotional moments, were pretty much turned into a joke. I became a bit sick of the MCU after 2013 and thought it was on a downward spiral, then 2014 happened .

Agreed on that, two of their best yet I think

Yep, GOTG is the best MCU movie yet in my eyes, with TWS 2nd, they both ramped everything up in terms of emotions and serious storylines, despite both having a lot of humour. They just got the mix better with these 2 movies. Avengers used to be my number 1, but I find myself disliking it more the more I re-watch, which as a big Joss Whedon fan, it pains me to say.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I don't think emotion is the reason the X-men films sometimes feel like soaps. I think it's because of Singer's sometimes bland direction. Look at TDKT, those films have just as much melodrama as Singer's films, yet they don't feel like soaps. Or Vagun's First Class. That film had emotional scenes too, but no soap feel.

Edit: Okay. The Beast/Mystique scenes did.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I don't think emotion is the reason the X-men films sometimes feel like soaps. I think it's because of Singer's sometimes bland direction. Look at TDKT, those films have just as much melodrama as Singer's films, yet they don't feel like soaps. Or Vagun's First Class. That film had emotional scenes too, but no soap feel.

Edit: Okay. The Beast/Mystique scenes did.

One of my main problems with the TDKT was the lack of melodrama and emotional scenes. Its a complaint with the majority of Nolans movies, Interstellar rectified that for me though. I love TDKT and especially TDK which is still the number 1 CBM of all time for me, but I think the X-Movies have more and far better melodramatic and emotional scenes. Singer is simply better than Nolan at them, though overall Nolan is the better director.

 

[Erzengel]

Aside from Jean's death, I don't recall many emotional scenes in Singer's 3 X-Men movies.

It's been a while since I watched the 1st 2.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Aside from Jean's death, I don't recall many emotional scenes in Singer's 3 X-Men movies.

It's been a while since I watched the 1st 2.

The opening scene of X1 and the end with Wolverine healing Rogue were very good stuff IMO.

I though Jean vs Cyclops and the aftermath of that we're great as well. I find literally too many to name in DOFP. There were a good few in FC as well. I think as a director emotional scenes are his strong point, though he is lacking in other areas.

 

[BatsDC]

I'm a fan, but not a big one. I think X2 is the best, followed by DoFP and then the first one (and only in that order because the first one hasn't aged very well and feels kind of made-for-tv at this point)

But much like other early superhero films, they all strike me as a series of halfhearted attempts, like deep down Fox is embarrassed to be making comic book movies at all but they have licenses to hold on to so they pump them out because it's something they HAVE to do instead of something they WANT to do.

Whereas Marvel is putting out great superhero movies one right after the other, all the while embracing comic book tropes instead of trying to hide them behind a false veneer of Serious Business™.

Agreed with this

Another thing that bothers me with Singer is he's really unimpressive at directing action. It all feels so bland and uninteresting, and like an afterthought. There's no excitement with in them.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Aside from Jean's death, I don't recall many emotional scenes in Singer's 3 X-Men movies.

It's been a while since I watched the 1st 2.

Cyke on the plane after Jeans death is the only one that had any real impact at all imo

 

[BlackFox]

The end of X2 with Jean sacrificing herself for the team was a pretty emotional scene from memory.

2014 had three standout CBM's was a good year for them really. Not sure this year will have quite so many but I'm sure Avengers alone will be enough for some.

 

[GL's Light]

The opening scene of X1 and the end with Wolverine healing Rogue were very good stuff IMO.

I though Jean vs Cyclops and the aftermath of that we're great as well. I find literally too many to name in DOFP. There were a good few in FC as well. I think as a director emotional scenes are his strong point, though he is lacking in other areas.

Singer produced FC, but he didn't direct it.

 

[Visualiza]

But much like other early superhero films, they all strike me as a series of halfhearted attempts, like deep down Fox is embarrassed to be making comic book movies at all but they have licenses to hold on to so they pump them out because it's something they HAVE to do instead of something they WANT to do.

Whereas Marvel is putting out great superhero movies one right after the other, all the while embracing comic book tropes instead of trying to hide them behind a false veneer of Serious Business™.

I see where you're coming from. I feel the same way in many respects, but not quite to the same extent.

I actually found Mangold's installment to be serviceable at best, but other than that you and I are on the same page

Yeah I agree with this, even as a fan of the films it feels a little too much like a soap opera at times.

My sentiments exactly. In the wake of the Nolan inspired trend for darker, more serious movies, it seems that another contingent of fans has arisen that covets melodrama and soap opera theatrics above all else, and in a similar fashion to the "dark, gritty, angst = art" crowd. The quote in my sig fits in a broader sense in this respect.

I've noticed that when some folks tout (or tear down) a movie for emotional content, they typically seem to be referring to the cliched, common emotions you find in soap operas, i.e. varying degrees of overwrought grief and/or anger. These are the types of people who would say that a movie like Happy-Go-Lucky isn't emotional, when that movie, for as lighthearted and upbeat as it was, ran the whole gamut of emotions. Angst shouldn't be considered the only place from whence legitimate emotion comes from. I'll bring up TWS in this regard as well. This movie was remarkable for how deeply it delved into the full spectrum of emotions. Feelings such as confusion, self-doubt, fear, surprise, frustration, anxiety, sentimentality, and adoration are among what was explored in the movie, and by more than just the main players, for that matter.

I realize that the movie is generally held in very high regard, but the reason I bring up TWS is because I'm reminded of someone whose sole complaint was that the movie wasn't emotional enough. This person was, unsurprisingly, a particularly devout TASM fan, and after reflecting upon the wide range of emotion that was actually covered in the movie, all I could think to myself was "What kind of emotion was it lacking that could have benefited the movie as a whole?". If what TWS lacked was a protagonist who wallowed in self-pity over a relationship, then to that I'd say...it was for the better.

Now, I think that this is of particular importance to point out, because not only do some folks use a rather narrow, reductive definition of terms like 'emotion' and 'mature' when they describe a movie, but at times, it seems like they don't stop to consider how the inclusion of whatever emotion they're clamoring for would serve the story, themes, and characters. I don't like the idea that melodrama should be shoehorned into every genre movie just to placate certain fans or tick a certain box. Just as with tone, it needs to fit organically before it should ever be considered in the first place. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and the misuse of tone and melodrama is readily apparent in lackluster genre flicks like TASM, TIH, Dredd, MoS, and The Wolverine (IOW, reactionary remakes and sequels that emphasized trends rather than honest, effective storytelling and innovation). Speed, Bourne, T2, RotLA, or Die Hard never suffered due to a lack of emotion, although what's again important to point out is that those movies featured exactly the emotions that they needed in terms of plot and theme; they didn't ape what was trendy in order to mask their shortcomings. Melodrama and a serious tone seem to be en vogue these days, but in my opinion, for all the wrong reasons.

With all that being said, I don't agree with the idea that most of the Marvel movies have been devoid of emotional resonance. I don't see how people can take the internal conflict of Banner, the familial issues present in Thor, and the personal, traumatic struggles of Tony Stark and say that the movies lack emotion. Even then, those are some of the more commonly touched upon examples, while things like pride, joy, excitement, triumph, and satisfaction are ever-present in these movies (Apparently the uplifting stuff doesn't rate). What the issue seems to be is that the movies don't dwell on and/or emphasize the two or three traits that some folks tend to favor, which is fine by the way, but call a spade a spade. Don't say that a movie lacks emotion because it doesn't have a romantic, teen angst sub-plot, or that the protagonist isn't on an arduous, aimless journey to find his/her place in the world.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I've noticed that when some folks tout (or tear down) a movie for emotional content, they typically seem to be referring to the cliched, common emotions you find in soap operas, i.e. varying degrees of overwrought grief and/or anger. These are the types of people who would say that a movie like Happy-Go-Lucky isn't emotional, when that movie, for as lighthearted and upbeat as it was, ran the whole gamut of emotions. Angst shouldn't be considered the only place from whence legitimate emotion comes from. I'll bring up TWS in this regard as well. This movie was remarkable for how deeply it delved into the full spectrum of emotions. Feelings such as confusion, self-doubt, fear, surprise, frustration, anxiety, sentimentality, and adoration are among what was explored in the movie, and by more than just the main players, for that matter.

Great post, this in particular needs to be stamped on some foreheads around here lol

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Most MCU films have been emotionally truthful to me, because they are usually earned, due to how well realized and human the characters are. But Feige seems to be a student of the James Bond way of doing things. As in he realizes that these emotional moments shouldn't be dragged out. Which is why we are back to the fun and brevity before things get too uncomfortable.

Furthermore, super-serious melodrama doesn't mean emotionally resonant. Did anyone care when the future X-people were being killed in DOFP? No. Because they were paper thin set dressing that we won't care about no matter how sad the music is. Compare that to the far more low key and humor filled "death" of Phil Coulson, which I found to be far more resonant.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Singer produced FC, but he didn't direct it.

He came up with story and was a very hands on producer, but yeah Vaughn directed it and he is great director who also does good emotional scenes.

I see where you're coming from. I feel the same way in many respects, but not quite to the same extent.



My sentiments exactly. In the wake of the Nolan inspired trend for darker, more serious movies, it seems that another contingent of fans has arisen that covets melodrama and soap opera theatrics above all else, and in a similar fashion to the "dark, gritty, angst = art" crowd. The quote in my sig fits in a broader sense in this respect.

I've noticed that when some folks tout (or tear down) a movie for emotional content, they typically seem to be referring to the cliched, common emotions you find in soap operas, i.e. varying degrees of overwrought grief and/or anger. These are the types of people who would say that a movie like Happy-Go-Lucky isn't emotional, when that movie, for as lighthearted and upbeat as it was, ran the whole gamut of emotions. Angst shouldn't be considered the only place from whence legitimate emotion comes from. I'll bring up TWS in this regard as well. This movie was remarkable for how deeply it delved into the full spectrum of emotions. Feelings such as confusion, self-doubt, fear, surprise, frustration, anxiety, sentimentality, and adoration are among what was explored in the movie, and by more than just the main players, for that matter.

I realize that the movie is generally held in very high regard, but the reason I bring up TWS is because I'm reminded of someone whose sole complaint was that the movie wasn't emotional enough. This person was, unsurprisingly, a particularly devout TASM fan, and after reflecting upon the wide range of emotion that was actually covered in the movie, all I could think to myself was "What kind of emotion was it lacking that could have benefited the movie as a whole?". If what TWS lacked was a protagonist who wallowed in self-pity over a relationship, then to that I'd say...it was for the better.

Now, I think that this is of particular importance to point out, because not only do some folks use a rather narrow, reductive definition of terms like 'emotion' and 'mature' when they describe a movie, but at times, it seems like they don't stop to consider how the inclusion of whatever emotion they're clamoring for would serve the story, themes, and characters. I don't like the idea that melodrama should be shoehorned into every genre movie just to placate certain fans or tick a certain box. Just as with tone, it needs to fit organically before it should ever be considered in the first place. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and the misuse of tone and melodrama is readily apparent in lackluster genre flicks like TASM, TIH, Dredd, MoS, and The Wolverine (IOW, reactionary remakes and sequels that emphasized trends rather than honest, effective storytelling and innovation). Speed, Bourne, T2, RotLA, or Die Hard never suffered due to a lack of emotion, although what's again important to point out is that those movies featured exactly the emotions that they needed in terms of plot and theme; they didn't ape what was trendy in order to mask their shortcomings. Melodrama and a serious tone seem to be en vogue these days, but in my opinion, for all the wrong reasons.

With all that being said, I don't agree with the idea that most of the Marvel movies have been devoid of emotional resonance. I don't see how people can take the internal conflict of Banner, the familial issues present in Thor, and the personal, traumatic struggles of Tony Stark and say that the movies lack emotion. Even then, those are some of the more commonly touched upon examples, while things like pride, joy, excitement, triumph, and satisfaction are ever-present in these movies (Apparently the uplifting stuff doesn't rate). What the issue seems to be is that the movies don't dwell on and/or emphasize the two or three traits that some folks tend to favor, which is fine by the way, but call a spade a spade. Don't say that a movie lacks emotion because it doesn't have a romantic, teen angst sub-plot, or that the protagonist isn't on an arduous, aimless journey to find his/her place in the world.

I agree with a lot of what you say here, but some stuff I don't agree with. For example, when I say TWS lacked emotional scenes ( it didn't BTW, I just don't think the ones we got were presented very well), it certainly does not mean I was pining for a romantic sub plot with the main character. For me, TWS and DOFP were both better movies for not throwing such things in. The emotional scenes in the X-movies I find are just better directed and have more impact than the MCU movies, so far anyway.

Asking for better and more emotional scenes certainly does not mean I want movies to be humourless. I think a balance needs to struck. The MCU movies are not serious enough, the DC movies are too serious. I think the X-movies strike the balance best personally.

Also, I find it funny that some say people wanting more emotional scenes are askng for soap opera elements. I am well known amount family and friends for hating soap operas with a passion. Yet well done emotional scenes in movies are essential IMO.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Most MCU films have been emotionally truthful to me, because they are usually earned, due to how well realized and human the characters are. But Feige seems to be a student of the James Bond way of doing things. As in he realizes that these emotional moments shouldn't be dragged out. Which is why we are back to the fun and brevity before things get too uncomfortable.

Furthermore, super-serious melodrama doesn't mean emotionally resonant. Did anyone care when the future X-people were being killed in DOFP? No. Because they were paper thin set dressing that we won't care about no matter how sad the music is. Compare that to the far more low key and humor filled "death" of Phil Coulson, which I found to be far more resonant.

I actually feel the opposite about the last paragraph. The deaths of Storm, Magneto, Colossus, Iceman and the imminent ones of Kitty and Xavier effected me. Cousins death has lost its lustre since AOS started IMO.

Serenity and Firefly proved Joss can do great emotion though.

 

[Visualiza]

Great post, this in particular needs to be stamped on some foreheads around here lol

Thanks.

Most MCU films have been emotionally truthful to me, because they are usually earned, due to how well realized and human the characters are. But Feige seems to be a student of the James Bond way of doing things. As in he realizes that these emotional moments shouldn't be dragged out. Which is why we are back to the fun and brevity before things get too uncomfortable.

Well said. I actually appreciate that they don't usually lay it on thick with the grief whenever an appropriately sad scene occurs. To me, it shows that the filmmakers have confidence in the content of their films to not resort to some of the manipulative, derivative tactics to elicit reactions that have become commonplace. In other words, the audience doesn't always need to be told what to think with heavy-handed atmosphere, accompaniments, and tone.

I know that 99% will disagree with me on this, but this is one of the areas in which I felt GotG was lacking. The prologue is, in my opinion, a good example of manipulative cliches. It felt so artificial to me that every time I see it, all I can visualize is "FEEL BAD FOR THIS RANDOM KID RIGHT HERE; SAD ***** IS HAPPENING TO HIM". I think that for such a heavy scene, a bit of context and buildup would have helped drive the point home more effectively. Now, I know that there's a school of thought that exclaims "This kid's mom is dying of cancer, how the f can you not sympathize with that!?", and I get that when it comes to real life, but for fictional characters, I need a little more than random human beings suffering in order to empathize with them; they need to be endeared to me in some way for it to be effective. Otherwise, it's akin to Will Ferrell slapstick in my eyes. In the same way that I can't just laugh at the guy for doing nothing more than acting like a buffoon and making funny faces in front of a camera, I can't really connect with a character that has tears in his eyes right off the bat.

The example has been used ad nauseum, but Gunn could have learned something from the prologue in Up. Establish the characters, make us smile, make us care, endear them to us, and then let tragedy set in. Maybe the runtime didn't permit such a thing, but then again, time management is as important as anything else.

Furthermore, super-serious melodrama doesn't mean emotionally resonant. Did anyone care when the future X-people were being killed in DOFP? No. Because they were paper thin set dressing that we won't care about no matter how sad the music is. Compare that to the far more low key and humor filled "death" of Phil Coulson, which I found to be far more resonant.

Agreed with the bold, but for me, the future scenes in DoFP worked for a different reason.

While I agree that they were emotionally bankrupt for the most part, I found them to be effective for having shown just how dire the situation is for all mutantkind, rather than just the jobbers that happened to be in Kitty & Bishop's crew. The Sentinel's merciless brutality helped to drive that home as well, and the whole idea served as a pretty effective backdrop against the characters in the past.

I liken it to the idea that development in Avengers was moreso about the development of the team rather than the heroes themselves (although that was there too, as much as people like to deny it).

 

[-Arya-]

Neither the death of the original X-Men nor Coulson affected me at all, although other parts of First Class and DOFP did have an impact. I've also personally felt myriad emotions throughout Nolan's trilogy, both Captain America films, the first Ironman, and Man of Steel. One does have to acknowledge that these reactions depend on a lot of variables; how much past exposure you've had to these characters, whether or not their history/personalities resonate with you, etc... It will inevitably vary among a lot of people.

 

[Erzengel]

I actually feel the opposite about the last paragraph. The deaths of Storm, Magneto, Colossus, Iceman and the imminent ones of Kitty and Xavier effected me. Cousins death has lost its lustre since AOS started IMO.

Serenity and Firefly proved Joss can do great emotion though.

X2 and DOFP are in my Top 10 CBMs of all time. But I have to be honest, I'm not emotionally invested past a few characters and Storm, Colossus, Kitty and Iceman aren't one of those.

But even if they were, DOFP was a time travel movie, you knew that their deaths wouldn't stick. Unless you're saying effect as in just sad in general? I thought Bucky's death and Fury's death were sad, but I knew they'd come back.

I thought Coulson's death resonated more cause even though he didn't have a huge role through IM1 and IM2, I didn't necessarily think he'd be coming back.

Lastly, I don't agree that the MCU is too comical and not too serious. GOTG is probably the most comical but it works within it's film. And honestly the scene between Groot and Rocket was more touching than any other deaths in other CBMs. Including Jean's, Rachel's in TDK, or Gwen in TASM2. But I was 50/50 on him coming back because I'm not as familiar with GOTG.

 

[Visualiza]

I agree with a lot of what you say here, but some stuff I don't agree with. For example, when I say TWS lacked emotional scenes ( it didn't BTW, I just don't think the ones we got were presented very well), it certainly does not mean I was pining for a romantic sub plot with the main character. (Then what does it mean? Seems like you didn't finish this thought, unless I'm misunderstanding you) For me, TWS and DOFP were both better movies for not throwing such things in. The emotional scenes in the X-movies I find are just better directed and have more impact than the MCU movies(ok, but in what ways?), so far anyway.

Asking for better and more emotional scenes certainly does not mean I want movies to be humourless. I think a balance needs to struck. The MCU movies are not serious enough, the DC movies are too serious. I think the X-movies strike the balance best personally.

Here's the thing, what kind of emotion are you referring to though? Are we giving equal weight to the full spectrum or putting a premium on anger and sadness as per usual? If it's the former, then I don't really think that DoFP edges out TWS, quite the opposite in fact, as TWS' emotional content was much broader in scope, whereas DoFP was much more one note in this regard. If it's the latter, then sure, but that's because such a narrow yardstick for defining 'emotion' fits the themes of a movie like DoFP more appropriately. Like I alluded to earlier, I think it's tough to find fault with either film in this regard, because their emotional content fits their respective plots and themes.

By the way, I wasn't referring to humor at all, not even implicitly, so I'm not really sure how to respond to that.

What I will say, however, is that people tend to overlook the more uplifting(joy, love, enthusiasm) and ambiguous (surprise, fear, shock) emotions in favor of the more dour ones. If we're judging the emotional content of a movie, then that isn't quite a broad enough brush to paint the entire genre with.

Also, I find it funny that some say people wanting more emotional scenes are askng for soap opera elements. I am well known amount family and friends for hating soap operas with a passion. Yet well done emotional scenes in movies are essential IMO.

From what I've observed (and as I've pointed out before), most of what people describe as emotional are the aspects meant to elicit sorrow and anger. In other words, the same tactics that soaps use to hook their audiences. I rarely see people describing an uplifting, confusing, or terrifying moment as emotional.

Anyway, the reason why I call this sort of stuff soap opera theatrics, is because it seems to me that some people want melodrama inserted or enhanced where it simply doesn't need to be, or wouldn't fit...like a soap opera. Too much of one thing is good for nothing, as the saying goes.

All I'm saying is that before people go about pulling the emotion card, it's worth considering how it would impact the themes and characters of a given movie. In the same way that every movie doesn't need a dour, solemn tone, not every movie needs those same emotional beats to be effective. Again, Indiana Jones, Terminator 2, and Die Hard are good examples. Those movies share a great deal of similarities with some of Marvel's, yet they aren't criticized for lacking or poorly portrayed emotion.

 

[x-er]

X-Men of course!

Also, don't know the place to post on manga-based films (which are rarely good) because I was thinking, hey it'd be nice to have a Sailor Moon film by now, but with a good budget for writing, cast, director, etc... A cross between the teen humor of Mean Girls and the action-packed stuff Kick-Ass is made of.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Regarding your comment in red, I finished the thought fine. I thought giving my number 1 spot to a movie that had no romantic sub-plot would prove that outright. I actually wish more CBM's and blockbusters in general would not choose to shoehorn romantic sub-plots in. Though some characters like Spiderman and Superman need to have it also IMO.

Here's the thing, what kind of emotion are you referring to though? Are we giving equal weight to the full spectrum or putting a premium on anger and sadness as per usual? If it's the former, then I don't really think that DoFP edges out TWS, quite the opposite in fact, as TWS' emotional content was much broader in scope, whereas DoFP was much more one note in this regard. If it's the latter, then sure, but that's because such a narrow yardstick for defining 'emotion' fits the themes of a movie like DoFP more appropriately. Like I alluded to earlier, I think it's tough to find fault with either film in this regard, because their emotional content fits their respective plots and themes.

By the way, I wasn't referring to humor at all, not even implicitly, so I'm not really sure how to respond to that.

What I will say, however, is that people tend to overlook the more uplifting(joy, love, enthusiasm) and ambiguous (surprise, fear, shock) emotions in favor of the more dour ones. If we're judging the emotional content of a movie, then that isn't quite a broad enough brush to paint the entire genre with.

I am talking about all emotion, not just sad moments, I am talking about uplifting moments that make the hair on the back of your neck stand up, DOFP and even GOTG had more of all of those moment than TWS did. In fairness, the Russo's are a lot less experience as directors than Singer, and even less so than Gunn as well. So this could be a reason.

I just dont think TWS explored its emotional moments enough, especially considering what was happening during the movie. Its one of its few flaws.

DOFP took you through the full range of emotions though, humour, uplifting, happy, sad, fearful and more, its emotional content was what made the movie so enjoyable for me. Some of my favourite moments are the uplifting ones. Charles accepting the chair again, Charles seeing all of the good that happens in the future after seeing Logans painful past, Charles letting Mystique decide her own fate and the fate of mutant kind at the end, and finally, that amazing ending in future which shows everyone back at the mansion. TWS had nothing as uplifting as those moments.

From what I've observed (and as I've pointed out before), most of what people describe as emotional are the aspects meant to elicit sorrow and anger. In other words, the same tactics that soaps use to hook their audiences. I rarely see people describing an uplifting, confusing, or terrifying moment as emotional.

Anyway, the reason why I call this sort of stuff soap opera theatrics, is because it seems to me that some people want melodrama inserted or enhanced where it simply doesn't need to be, or wouldn't fit...like a soap opera. Too much of one thing is good for nothing, as the saying goes.

All I'm saying is that before people go about pulling the emotion card, it's worth considering how it would impact the themes and characters of a given movie. In the same way that every movie doesn't need a dour, solemn tone, not every movie needs those same emotional beats to be effective. Again, Indiana Jones, Terminator 2, and Die Hard are good examples. Those movies share a great deal of similarities with some of Marvel's, yet they aren't criticized for lacking or poorly portrayed emotion.

Terminator 2 had some very emotional moments, Cameron is another director that is good at doing them, were as Die Hard and Indiana Jones both had quieter and tender moments once the action took a break.

 

[CB Fan]

I keep hearing about all these range of emotions DOFP takes the viewer and I can't but laugh and disagree. The only scenes that I felt the weight of was Eriks speech on the plane and young Xavier's return to Cerebro with the two Xavier's talking. The film is good but I don't rate it higher than that and I think First Class and X2 are better. I also agree with the person who said Singers directing of action is bland for the most part but scenes like Nightcrawlers intro and the Quicksilver sequence show potential. I would like to say I expect more from him action wise in Apocalypse but it's best not to get my hopes up, I wish Vaughn would've stayed with the franchise.

TWS truly upset me with how they handled Steve seeing Peggy again. We just jump right into it and are not allowed to see Steve as he musters the strength to visit the woman he loved. There was a weight that was missing and it annoys me every time I see the film. I actually think they handled Bucky as best they could and did a good job.

 

[TalismanRing]

TWS truly upset me with how they handled Steve seeing Peggy again. We just jump right into it and are not allowed to see Steve as he musters the strength to visit the woman he loved. There was a weight that was missing and it annoys me every time I see the film. I actually think they handled Bucky as best they could and did a good job.

We don't see that because it isn't the first time. Their ease and the tenor & content of their conversation and the unsurprised and efficient way he handles her dementia indicate that he's a regular visitor. He's been out of the ice for two years and probably has been visiting her almost as long. They could have shown it like it was the first time but it would never make sense that he would wait so long to see her. The time for it to have been shown as a first reunion would have been The Avengers but it was one of the scenes Whedon (after writing) decided not to film.

The TWS writers said in an interview that one could imagine Steve's regular routine on his day off is going to The Smithsonian and then visiting Peggy. I do think they could have made the regular nature of his visits clearer by just having him talk to a Dr or nurse after. A line or two would have done it. "She was doing great but she had another spell. She's resting now".

Still, the scene and all the attendant loss and might have beens makes me cry every time.