Transformers Realism and Cartoons

[CFlash]

I never said all of the source material was garbage. A lot of it was. I have no problem with the deceptions using earth's resources to make energon cubes in a transformers movie and the autobots trying to stop them. However, these movies will lose their appeal if this same plot is used over and over again.

I want you all to tell me every horrible thing that Bay is doing to this film besides Gorillascream.

Dude, the source material is as garbage as any cartoon or comic book will be 20 years later. That doesn't mean the basic mythos, characters, and iconic imagery needs to be completely disrespected.

Instead of listing things the movie appears to be getting wrong, let's ask what it's getting right:

1) Robots that change into things
2) Two warring factions
3) A boy and his car

That's basically it. And, really is that Transformers? Sounds like it could be Gobots or maybe Robotech or some other Mecha Japanese anime?
EVERYTHING else in this movie besides that list above is a reimagination. The basic plot (Quest for the Holy Grail???), the alt-modes (The Little Guy is now a Muscle Car?... come on!), the robot modes (Bumblebee is taller than Jazz?... in what freakin alternate dimension?), Megatron and everything about him (he really plays Shockwave in the movie).... the list could go on and on.

 

[Avangarde]

You mentioned script and the word draft. This tells me that changes could have been made and hopefully have been made because if Megatron does not change his alt mode to an earth vehicle then the "Robots in Disguise phrase" means very little in this film.

I guess thats something we will have to wait and see. My guess is if there is going to be sequals Megatron will be back (unless they introduce Galvatron) and then they will have to consider altering his form into an earth vehicle.

 

[Theweepeople]

Dude, the source material is as garbage as any cartoon or comic book will be 20 years later. That doesn't mean the basic mythos, characters, and iconic imagery needs to be completely disrespected.

Instead of listing things the movie appears to be getting wrong, let's ask what it's getting right:

1) Robots that change into things
2) Two warring factions
3) A boy and his car

That's basically it. And, really is that Transformers? Sounds like it could be Gobots or maybe Robotech or some other Mecha Japanese anime?
EVERYTHING else in this movie besides that list above is a reimagination. The basic plot (Quest for the Holy Grail???), the alt-modes (The Little Guy is now a Muscle Car?... come on!), the robot modes (Bumblebee is taller than Jazz?... in what freakin alternate dimension?), Megatron and everything about him (he really plays Shockwave in the movie).... the list could go on and on.

I have not read the script so I don't know what the basic plot is but, at least one transformer G1 episode had a holy grail plot element. In the microbots episode the Decepticons were trying to find the heart of Cybertron that was used to power their ship. The autobots were trying to figure out what the decepticons were after before they eventually found it. Also, the Blue lagoon episode had the holy grail plot element. The decepticons found that protective yellow liquid before the autobots. Both factions fought over control of the lagoon at the end of the episode.

 

[Headless Knight]

Sorry about the delay, spent the weekend at my girlfriend's and though I could use her computer I obviously couldn't care less.

Man! I dunno if I hate you or not. I love A.I. as well... I thought I was the only one!

Dude, don't even get me started on A.I.

I totally lost track of how many times I had to defend that movie from trolls who think the ending is gay or whatever. Actually, when I mention the ending is one of my favorite parts of the movie, people usually think I'm insane.

But, I also did like Hook... a lot!

That's ok, bud. Nobody's perfect.

And The Terminal... and Shrek... and almost everything else you cite.

But you have to admit The Terminal is kind of overly sentimental (especially in the second half) and Shrek pushes it's message and jokes too crudely (almost desperately). Even if you like those movies. Even if you laughed at Shrek farting for the 50th time.

I can see Evolution being garbage (tho it's not any worse than Armageddon... and it's more fun than that craptitude)....

Lol, at least Evolution knows it's a comedy, right?

(Armageddon is funnier, though.)

And to answer your question: I watched Goonies just last month. Watched it with my daughter. It's one of the few movies (like Pulp Fiction funnily) that I can watch over and over and over again.

Yeah... I loved it as a kid, and I probably should have refrained (sp?) myself from watching it again as an adult.

The spell was completely broken. That movie is poorly directed, poorly acted, and I could come up with a better adventure in 5 minutes (when I was like twelve). It was as exciting as watching my grandma watch a soap-opera.

I can see the highbrow intent of your Top 20 list. It reminds me of the Approval Matrix segment of New York magazine. Yes... some (all?) are masterpieces. But, the snob-appeal is a little too over the top for me.

Whoa, dude. You completely lost me there. I was gaining respect for you, and then you come up and...













Now, seriously, that list is far from being an example of film-snobbishness.

Let's see, we have in first place "The World Of Apu", a very straightforward quasi-neorealistic tale, something anyone could relate to. A story about death and family told with devastating simplicity and without a hint of ego (also the third part of a trilogy, but that's irrelevant).

In second place we have "His Girl Friday", a very straightforward hawksian screwball comedy, nothing really "difficult" here as long as you can keep up with the speed-of-light dialogue.

In third place we have "2001" a.k.a. One Of The Most Overrated Movies Of All Time According To CFlash, which is my all-time favorite sci-fi incidentally, and I'm sure you've noticed I love sci-fi etc. Really, this movie has so much atmosphere and mind****ing I wish I could erase it from my mind and watch it again for the first time. Over and over.

But now we're getting closer to the fim-snob end of the spectrum; in fourth place we have "The Rules Of The Game", a movie that presents itself every ****ing time a group of critics decide to produce a consensual "all-time top 10", along with "Citizen Kane" and the like. But have you seen it? It's one of the ten best movies of all time. Seriously.

But wait. In fifth place we have "In A Lonely Place", a very straightforward drama/noir starring Bogart (who doesn't like Bogart?). No snobbishness here, as this isn't even usually praised by critics as the best movie with Bogart, or the best Nicholas Ray movie, or even the best movie of 1950 (a year that had "Sunset Blvd." and "All About Eve"!). So it's clearly a personal choice.

See where this is going? The list also features "The Birds" (not usually considered the best Hitchcock) and "Kiss Me Deadly", which were both very "commercial" movies back in the day (though both have a strong subtext about that era’s paranoia, so I guess you could argue they are snobbish choices because of that). And so on, and so forth. "After Hours"? Come on. If you're into 80s' nostalgia, there's no better movie. **** The Goonies in my opinion.

The few really artsy stuff in my list (Stalker, Sans Soleil, Woman In The Dunes, Songs From The Second Floor) are all movies I really love, movies that really affected me (though I probably should remove "Stalker", as I'm not so much into Tarkovsky these days). I didn't put them there to sound smart or anything (as you kind of implied).

I'm more of a B-Movie fan. Big fan at that. I'd pick Evil Dead over half of those movies on your list. ;-)

I like Evil Dead, it's a good horror movie, but I prefer the in-your-face slapstick of Army of Darkness. Raimi is a genius at that. You know who else is a genius? George A. Romero. Night Of The Living Dead = my second favorite movie of 1968. I like P. Jackson's "Braindead", too. I even own the DVD. It’s hysterical.

Not a big fan of B-Movies, though. Most of them are just too crappy to be enjoyable, IMO.

P.S.
A.I. is one of the most underrated movies of all time IMHO.

Yes.

And 2001 is one of the most overrated.

No.

(I enjoyed the book tho).

Never read it. I heard it explains too much. Bleh.

Kubrick and Spielberg should have done more movies together IMO.
;-)

Kubrick should have made more movies, period.

 

[Headless Knight]

Dude, the source material is as garbage as any cartoon or comic book will be 20 years later.

You know what Alan Moore was writing 20 years ago? That's right, "Watchmen".

Now guess what Frank Miller was writing. Yep. "The Dark Knight".

And you know what Will Eisner was writing 20 years ago? I'm not sure, but I bet an arm it's far from garbage.

Those are "comic books", right?

And when you say "cartoon", does that include animation movies like "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Winds" (1984) or "Akira" (1988) or... I don't know, "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" (1937)?

If so, watch your theory go with the wind...

 

[Avangarde]

I think people are forgetting that the animated series was created purely to sell toys, therefore the series was a no-brainer. It just so happens that it captured the hearts of many kids and its popularity sky rocketed, then they produced the movie, more series, comics etc. Had the original series been created by people not to sell toys but rather tell a great story, we probably would have got a more compelling series. Look at some of the plots in the comic series, they have great character development, compelling story lines, awsome battle scenes, the list goes on. I guess what I am trying to say is, to create a movie based on G1 may have been a big mistake due to lack of substance. However its a simple formula that can be altered into something grand (regardless of what Bay & Co may/maynot be doing to it). The only thing that can be close to the original material is the character designs, they dont have to look the same, but rather have similar features, the Optimus Prime design is a great example of this. Its dfferent, but you can stil tell its him. Megs and Starscream are another story.

Let Bay continue to develop this movie, the end result will be interesting to say the least.

P.S. I am a massive G1 fan

 

[Hotwire]

I think people are forgetting that the animated series was created purely to sell toys, therefore the series was a no-brainer. It just so happens that it captured the hearts of many kids and its popularity sky rocketed, then they produced the movie, more series, comics etc. Had the original series been created by people not to sell toys but rather tell a great story, we probably would have got a more compelling series. Look at some of the plots in the comic series, they have great character development, compelling story lines, awsome battle scenes, the list goes on. I guess what I am trying to say is, to create a movie based on G1 may have been a big mistake due to lack of substance. However its a simple formula that can be altered into something grand (regardless of what Bay & Co may/maynot be doing to it). The only thing that can be close to the original material is the character designs, they dont have to look the same, but rather have similar features, the Optimus Prime design is a great example of this. Its dfferent, but you can stil tell its him. Megs and Starscream are another story.

Let Bay continue to develop this movie, the end result will be interesting to say the least.

P.S. I am a massive G1 fan

Well said, pal. Very well said.

 

[CFlash]

I think people are forgetting that the animated series was created purely to sell toys, therefore the series was a no-brainer. It just so happens that it captured the hearts of many kids and its popularity sky rocketed, then they produced the movie, more series, comics etc. Had the original series been created by people not to sell toys but rather tell a great story, we probably would have got a more compelling series. Look at some of the plots in the comic series, they have great character development, compelling story lines, awsome battle scenes, the list goes on. I guess what I am trying to say is, to create a movie based on G1 may have been a big mistake due to lack of substance. However its a simple formula that can be altered into something grand (regardless of what Bay & Co may/maynot be doing to it). The only thing that can be close to the original material is the character designs, they dont have to look the same, but rather have similar features, the Optimus Prime design is a great example of this. Its dfferent, but you can stil tell its him. Megs and Starscream are another story.

Let Bay continue to develop this movie, the end result will be interesting to say the least.

P.S. I am a massive G1 fan

I wholeheartedly disagree. Not only do I think there was indeed substance in the original Transformers, but I think Jim Shooter and Bob Budiansky at Marvel would disagree with you saying they weren't trying to tell a story. THEY came up with the entire story and mythos and plot (which the guys at Sunbow used to make the cartoon)... not Hasbro.

As for the cartoon by itself (as oppossed to the comic book), if you compare it to other stuff at the time (including the G.I. Joe cartoon, which sucked compared to the outstanding comic), it stood head and shoulders above everything.

The whole basic mythos has no substance? You gotta be kidding me. Machines + energy crisis + natural resources. Hello? What's sad is that we don't really see any of that in this movie... we see them searching for an Artifact.

 

[Hotwire]

I wholeheartedly disagree. Not only do I think there was indeed substance in the original Transformers, but I think Jim Shooter and Bob Budiansky at Marvel would disagree with you saying they weren't trying to tell a story. THEY came up with the entire story and mythos and plot (which the guys at Sunbow used to make the cartoon)... not Hasbro.

As for the cartoon by itself (as oppossed to the comic book), if you compare it to other stuff at the time (including the G.I. Joe cartoon, which sucked compared to the outstanding comic), it stood head and shoulders above everything.

The whole basic mythos has no substance? You gotta be kidding me. Machines + energy crisis + natural resources. Hello? What's sad is that we don't really see any of that in this movie... we see them searching for an Artifact.

It's obvious you took the show a lot more serious than some of us. I loved the show, loved the toys, and still walk the Transformers section in the toy dept. everytime I take my family to Wal-Mart. But, it's all nostalgia at this point. Let's me be a kid again. Since I have a daughter, I can't relive the childhood thru her like I could a son. So, I'll take all the nostalgia I can get. I look back at the cartoon and remember how cool I tought it was, I don't look at it and think it was cheated out of an Emmy for outstanding series. Ah, well. *jumps off soapbox*

 

[Avangarde]

I wholeheartedly disagree. Not only do I think there was indeed substance in the original Transformers, but I think Jim Shooter and Bob Budiansky at Marvel would disagree with you saying they weren't trying to tell a story. THEY came up with the entire story and mythos and plot (which the guys at Sunbow used to make the cartoon)... not Hasbro.

As for the cartoon by itself (as oppossed to the comic book), if you compare it to other stuff at the time (including the G.I. Joe cartoon, which sucked compared to the outstanding comic), it stood head and shoulders above everything.

The whole basic mythos has no substance? You gotta be kidding me. Machines + energy crisis + natural resources. Hello? What's sad is that we don't really see any of that in this movie... we see them searching for an Artifact.

I guess to each his own. I was always aware that the series was based on the toys when I was young. That was the influence I had. Now I didn't mean it to sound like they didn't put effort into the animated series, far from it. Infact there were some plots that were quite good like the Dinobot's story line. However I can remember reading somewhere on the net that everyone that worked on the cartoon were blown away by the success it got, ie they were not expecting it. Thats why they decided to make the movie, and probably why the G1 series stopped the way it did before the movie.

 

[CFlash]

It's obvious you took the show a lot more serious than some of us. I loved the show, loved the toys, and still walk the Transformers section in the toy dept. everytime I take my family to Wal-Mart. But, it's all nostalgia at this point. Let's me be a kid again. Since I have a daughter, I can't relive the childhood thru her like I could a son. So, I'll take all the nostalgia I can get. I look back at the cartoon and remember how cool I tought it was, I don't look at it and think it was cheated out of an Emmy for outstanding series. Ah, well. *jumps off soapbox*

I have a daughter as well. It is possible to relive things with her... I do it by watching Teen Titans with her, appreciating how well written it is, and realizing that when I was kid, Transformers was that show. Is it Shakespeare? No. Neither is Teen Titans. Neither was TMNT (which I also think was superior to Transformers). But, it's what we had. And it was good.

 

[Backdrifter]

Maybe you should go spend time with your daughter instead of arguing over the internet about a cartoon based on action figures from the 1980s created for the sole purpose of selling more action figures. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.

 

[CFlash]

You know what Alan Moore was writing 20 years ago? That's right, "Watchmen".

Now guess what Frank Miller was writing. Yep. "The Dark Knight".

And you know what Will Eisner was writing 20 years ago? I'm not sure, but I bet an arm it's far from garbage.

Those are "comic books", right?

And when you say "cartoon", does that include animation movies like "Nausicaä of the Valley of the Winds" (1984) or "Akira" (1988) or... I don't know, "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" (1937)?

If so, watch your theory go with the wind...

No, I was talking about afterschool and saturday morning cartoons or monthly comics. Not graphic novels or anime movies. But in any case, my point was that it's easy to call Bob Kane's Batman garbage compared to Frank Miller's. It doesn't mean it is indeed garbage. Just like calling 1984's Transformers "garbage" *today* misses the whole point IMHO.

(P.S. I wasn't the one calling anything garbage)

 

[CFlash]

Maybe you should go spend time with your daughter instead of arguing over the internet about a cartoon based on action figures from the 1980s created for the sole purpose of selling more action figures. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.

Eh, don't worry. It only takes five minutes to come here and counterbalance a nitwit like you. Stewie... Mr. 10,000-posts-dork... just because you spend your whole day coming up with asinine posts, doesn't mean everyone else does. You really must leave the basement and seek professional help dude. Yeah, really.

 

[bunk]

It seems to me like most people on these boards are posting during the day while at work anyway, I know thats what I do. Don't sweat it cflash, some people are just a**h****

 

[Hotwire]

I have a daughter as well. It is possible to relive things with her... I do it by watching Teen Titans with her, appreciating how well written it is, and realizing that when I was kid, Transformers was that show. Is it Shakespeare? No. Neither is Teen Titans. Neither was TMNT (which I also think was superior to Transformers). But, it's what we had. And it was good.

She's 8. She prefers shows like Raven, and SpongeBob. No Cartoon Network at all.

 

[CFlash]

She's 8. She prefers shows like Raven, and SpongeBob. No Cartoon Network at all.

Mine is eight too (actually going on 8). I let her watch Teen Titans, but not much else on Cartoon Network. She got into Avatar and the Miyasaki movies... I dunno how cuz I don't watch em. I think it was her mom that rented Spirited Away or something and now she's hooked and wants to watch all those Miyasaki movies. They're pretty good from what I've seen and I'm astounded she's into it.

She's also into Spongebob. But, I fear Pokemon is next and I don't know how long I'll be able to keep her away from it. I can't believe that crap is still popular.

[edit]
P.S.
She reminds me of me watching Galaxy Express when I was like 6. In Japanese no less on one of the UHF channels (right after/before(?) the Spanish station came on or off the air).

Come to think of it... I think she might like Galaxy Express. I might go look that up.

 

[nosebleed.]

Mine is eight too (actually going on 8). I let her watch Teen Titans, but not much else on Cartoon Network. She got into Avatar and the Miyasaki movies... I dunno how cuz I don't watch em. I think it was her mom that rented Spirited Away or something and now she's hooked and wants to watch all those Miyasaki movies. They're pretty good from what I've seen and I'm astounded she's into it.

She's also into Spongebob. But, I fear Pokemon is next and I don't know how long I'll be able to keep her away from it. I can't believe that crap is still popular.

[edit]
P.S.
She reminds me of me watching Galaxy Express when I was like 6. In Japanese no less on one of the UHF channels (right after/before(?) the Spanish station came on or off the air).

Come to think of it... I think she might like Galaxy Express. I might go look that up.

My daughter's 5, watches Teen Titans. Thinks Robin is cool. Loves Spongebob. Always tries to kick me off the computer so she can go on noggin.com and play games. Talks waay too much. Loves Superman (she hums the entire Superman March). Loves Transformers (my Masterpiece Optimus has been decapitated more times than I can count). Loves TF:TM and is always asking me for new pictures of this new movie. Her and I will definitely be at the opening...having kids is great.

 

[bunk]

Thats really cool. I hope when I have kids they'll like the s*** I do and vice versa. I really thought a couple years ago the direction cartoons were going I thought by now they'd all suck, luckily that's not the case.

 

[Avangarde]

My daughter's 5, watches Teen Titans. Thinks Robin is cool. Loves Spongebob. Always tries to kick me off the computer so she can go on noggin.com and play games. Talks waay too much. Loves Superman (she hums the entire Superman March). Loves Transformers (my Masterpiece Optimus has been decapitated more times than I can count). Loves TF:TM and is always asking me for new pictures of this new movie. Her and I will definitely be at the opening...having kids is great.

Awwww thats so sweet

 

[Hotwire]

Yeah, kids are great. It is a bit sad for me though, since mine isn't really into anything I liked as a kid. I can't even bribe her into watching Transformers:The Movie. She does keep asking me to teach her how to play poker, though, so all is not lost.

 

[CFlash]

My daughter's 5, watches Teen Titans. Thinks Robin is cool. Loves Spongebob. Always tries to kick me off the computer so she can go on noggin.com and play games. Talks waay too much. Loves Superman (she hums the entire Superman March). Loves Transformers (my Masterpiece Optimus has been decapitated more times than I can count). Loves TF:TM and is always asking me for new pictures of this new movie. Her and I will definitely be at the opening...having kids is great.

That's awesome.

For me though... from the looks of things, I doubt we'll be watching Transformers together. Many might think it's stupid... but in light of what Bumblebee was, I just cringe at impressing on her that boys having a Muscle Car is in and of itself "cool." That's how Spidey got his Uncle killed. We'll save the ticket $ to watch Harry Potter and Pirates 3 most likely.

Yeah, kids are great. It is a bit sad for me though, since mine isn't really into anything I liked as a kid. I can't even bribe her into watching Transformers:The Movie. She does keep asking me to teach her how to play poker, though, so all is not lost.

Yeah. Luckily I got Godzilla and Teen Titans. She loves both. But, Transformers Armada she didn't (and me neither). And, Justice League, while very very good, is a little over her head... and a bit too mature (she was into Static Shock-- which I thought was very good-- including the Batman Beyond & Justice League crossovers).

Anyway, one thing that I really can't get over is how good the writing is on some of these shows. I mean, Sheen on Jimmy Neutron is funnier than most sitcom characters.

P.S.
As an experiment I convinced her to watch Godzilla 98... and I made sure to "sell" the movie on her. I told her it's "pretty good." After about 45 minutes she asked if she could be excused. "I don't like it." I was like... "yeah... I didn't like it much either... I was thinking you might."

 

[Headless Knight]

No, I was talking about afterschool and saturday morning cartoons or monthly comics. Not graphic novels or anime movies. But in any case, my point was that it's easy to call Bob Kane's Batman garbage compared to Frank Miller's. It doesn't mean it is indeed garbage. Just like calling 1984's Transformers "garbage" *today* misses the whole point IMHO.

I guess you're right, in the sense that in those days you could get away with a lot more cheesiness. "Saturday morning cartoons" these days are much more sophisticated, "cinematic", if you will. Just compare "Superfriends" with "Justice League Unlimited".

Same goes for monthly comics, though the "good" monthly comics of the present Era (Fables, Powers, 100 Bullets, Y – The Last Man, etc) are mostly meant for adults.

However, I never really liked the TF comics, save for a few arcs. Most of it was poorly written and the art was very uneven. It just wasn't that good. The cartoon was fun, but watching it recently made me cringe several times.

So you're wrong in generalizing -- it is possible for a comic/cartoon to still work 20 years later, but you're right in the sense that the TF comics and cartoons didn't have that ambition. They just wanted to be fun for kids (thus making them buy the toys), and there's nothing wrong with that.

Mine is eight too (actually going on 8). I let her watch Teen Titans, but not much else on Cartoon Network. She got into Avatar and the Miyasaki movies... I dunno how cuz I don't watch em. I think it was her mom that rented Spirited Away or something and now she's hooked and wants to watch all those Miyasaki movies. They're pretty good from what I've seen and I'm astounded she's into it.

An 8-year-old into Miyazaki movies is the kind of thing that gives me hope for the future.

 

[CFlash]

I guess you're right, in the sense that in those days you could get away with a lot more cheesiness. "Saturday morning cartoons" these days are much more sophisticated, "cinematic", if you will. Just compare "Superfriends" with "Justice League Unlimited".

For sure. But you can also do the same with 80's Spidey and Friends (the one with Iceman and Firestar) compared with Superfriends (which was more of a 70's show). Or going back and comparing 90's Spidey to 80's to the 70's Spider-Man (where that campy song I think comes from--- and I love Raimi for putting it in Spidey 2).

What I'm saying is that there is no end-all-and-be-all here.... very likely, for instance, Teen Titans will be seen as trite 20 years from now. Every sub-generation has their "top-notch" show or "franchise" (Transformers, TMNT, the 90's Batman animated series, Teen Titans, etc.)

That's why I can't abide people calling Transformers garbage.
I happen to look back in wonder- understand what else was out at the time (Smurfs! )- and appreciate the originality that made the franchise great.

P.S.
If the point of TF was to sell toys.... it didn't work on me. I had but one or two Transformers (I collected Masters and G.I. Joe). In fact, most of my friends when I was a kid and even friends I talk to now never collected Transformers (inner city kids... I guess they were too expensive). But boy that cartoon and comic had an impact on our lives. I dunno why. No... wait... I do. It's because Jim Shooter and Bob Budiansky came up with kickass story and an awesome set of characters... that's why!

 

[nosebleed.]

For sure. But you can also do the same with 80's Spidey and Friends (the one with Iceman and Firestar) compared with Superfriends (which was more of a 70's show). Or going back and comparing 90's Spidey to 80's to the 70's Spider-Man (where that campy song I think comes from--- and I love Raimi for putting it in Spidey 2).

What I'm saying is that there is no end-all-and-be-all here.... very likely, for instance, Teen Titans will be seen as trite 20 years from now. Every sub-generation has their "top-notch" show or "franchise" (Transformers, TMNT, the 90's Batman animated series, Teen Titans, etc.)

That's why I can't abide people calling Transformers garbage.
I happen to look back in wonder- understand what else was out at the time (Smurfs! )- and appreciate the originality that made the franchise great.

P.S.
If the point of TF was to sell toys.... it didn't work on me. I had but one or two Transformers (I collected Masters and G.I. Joe). In fact, most of my friends when I was a kid and even friends I talk to now never collected Transformers (inner city kids... I guess they were too expensive). But boy that cartoon and comic had an impact on our lives. I dunno why. No... wait... I do. It's because Jim Shooter and Bob Budiansky came up with kickass story and an awesome set of characters... that's why!

Applaud worthy post!