Supergirl Season 4, Episode 8: "Bunker Hill" (SPOILERS)

One thing I like is how these recent episodes have been the perfect "I TOLD YOU SO!" to all those people who said Superman was being unreasonable about his stance on Kryptonite in his first eps. His argument was never "no one should have Kryptonite but me," but that a government agency like the DEO shouldn't have it, because their leadership and agenda can change on a dime.

I'm guessing Kara's gonna get a little taste of that "this is what I was afraid of" when she recounts these events to her cousin next week.
 
So if they are sticking with the "women get the power to see the future" thing then.. at least put in a line about the men once in a century getting it. I know Nia is trans, fine with that, but it wouldnt change her powers unless it has to deal with the amount of estrogen the females have compared to the males. Should've just stuck with everyone on the planet having the ability like in the comics.
This was the singular stand out moment for me, in the sense that the scene stood out when it shouldn't have needed too. You've pretty much written what I was going to say; women from Nia's planet occasionally get this ability, but Nia wasn't born a woman, so how does she have the aiblity? The idea that it's from estrogen (or something similar) whilst valid, feels like a poor excuse. Don't quite think the writers thought this one through.

Ok. Now they're gonna pretend the DEO didn't know her identity all along. Dammit, show. You were doing so well.
Did they though? Unless I'm mistaken, it's only ever been Wynn, J'onn, Alex and Brainy that've known. I guess we could argue that some agents of the DEO do know, but they're loyal to Kara and haven't divuldged her identity to their colleagues.

Also, I get they named that world Earth-90 because of 1990 Flash, but dammit, they already explicitly established that there are "only" 53 Earths. At this point they're just rubbing their hatred of continuity in my face.
Could it be there were only 53 known Earths? Somehow? Maybe the others are slightly out of normal frequency? I'm sure it'll be explained in the crossover.
 
So.. Does Bunker Hill mean that Supergirl had a Pyrrhic victory?

I think the season is still going strong. Is this the last episode until the show comes back in Jan (except for the crossover)?
 
So if they are sticking with the "women get the power to see the future" thing then.. at least put in a line about the men once in a century getting it. I know Nia is trans, fine with that, but it wouldnt change her powers unless it has to deal with the amount of estrogen the females have compared to the males. Should've just stuck with everyone on the planet having the ability like in the comics.
You might be overthinking this. :cwink: Perhaps the same personal circumstances that led to Nia’s transition also bestowed her with dream powers. This is sci-fi stuff, after all. In any case, we don’t yet know all the details of Nia’s alien backstory.

Ok. Now they're gonna pretend the DEO didn't know her identity all along. Dammit, show. You were doing so well.

This topic was raised before - when certain episodes would feature Kara (not Supergirl) working/interacting at the DEO. Did this mean that everyone there knew the secret identity? Or did these folks just assume that Kara was visiting her sister’s top secret place of employment…? :ebr: Fast forward to last night’s confrontation between Supergirl and President Baker: Were the DEO onlookers simply curious as to whether Supergirl would capitulate and reveal her identity? Or was this to be a Moment of Suspense! in terms of which DEO agent might step forward and expose her secret - because everyone there already knew the secret? :shrug:
 
Fast forward to last night’s confrontation between Supergirl and President Baker: Were the DEO onlookers simply curious as to whether Supergirl would capitulate and reveal her identity? Or was this to be a Moment of Suspense! in terms of which DEO agent might step forward and expose her secret - because everyone there already knew the secret?
I may have looked too much into the scene in question, but I could have sworn one of the DEO agents (on the balcony) shook their head signaling a 'no - don't do it' to Kara. If correct then that would indicate that they (some of them at least) are aware of her identity, but would rather her not reveal herself.

Also @flickchick85 , regarding the 53 Earth argument, I've been thinking more on this, and there could be reasons behind it;
  1. There are/were only 53 known (visited) Earth's from Harry's perspective
  2. There are/were only 53 Earth's in the multiverse that had developed and had people on
  3. The villain of the crossover may be responsible for having created more than 53 Earth's, or at least allowing a new bunch of Earth's to be connected to the current set.
  4. The writers simply screwed up.
Speaking of that scene though; Hawkgirl, Hawkman (I saw two Hawk Helmets), Huntress I've seen mentioned, and Firestorm, Stargirl and a Green Arrow costume. Who else did we miss from the (apparant) Smallville Earth?
 
It did seem to me that some of the DEO agents were looking down and one shook his head. I think some know Kara’s identity and didn’t say. Col. Haley and the President may try interrogating some rank and file agents and Alex will have to stop that.

As for why the nth metal shattered with a fall maybe it has to be foraged like steel. Different forces have different effects on materials. Unforaged steel is easiest to break by throwing it down so while Kara probably could’ve broken out another way downward force was the materials weakest point. I’ll have to look again but I think Kara got her arm free before she flew up.
 
Loved this episode. Still don't like the whole prejudice story line, but this was a standout! Thank you Mr. Smith! I loved all the interactions that were going on as everyone played so well off of each other, and seeing Nia starting to come into her own was cool.

Best scene in the whole thing was Lockwood telling Supergirl not to struggle against the nth metal, and Supergirl responding that she wasn't struggling, she was flying! :woo:Loved it! (although, that building must weigh a lot less than a C-130...:oldrazz:)

It was good seeing Lockwood being afraid with Manchester threatening his wife, but of course getting him arrested and unmasking him would only give him a broader platform from which to spew his hate. The good guys 'Bunker Hill' moment, where they achieve a victory but at a damaging cost. I have to say I was disappointed when Lockwood's wife started the liberty chant. She was just shown that her husband is a cold blooded killer, whose actions have brought even more violence into their home, but she decides to just gulp down the kool-aid anyway... Maybe their son will be smarter.

And what does Lockwood think, having this super woman whom he's tried to kill before, actual trying to save him?! Supergirl really needs to become more vocal as a counter point to Lockwood's blind hatreds. As it's been said before, she can't punch her way out of this one, you have to talk your way out. Actions are good for getting attention, but you have to speak in order for them to listen and if all everyone is hearing is Lockwood, then any victory is going to be short and hollow.

And yes, this President is a dick! Which is surprising considering that Mardsen is the one who chose him as her VP! I can only assume that trying the fill the power vacuum she left, and one that is so polarizing, is making him self 'correct' in ways that are more damaging than helpful. And certainly worrying more about his poll numbers is the wrong foot to be standing on .You were the VP to a President who had lied about her citizenship and also has an alien prejudice attached to her. Your polls are always going to suck! Unless, you simply ride the prejudice wave, which reveals that he is merely a political animal.

A break from the DEO and that toxic leadership is probably the best thing at this point. All they would be would be a hindrance now in Supergirl's fight to try and stop what Lockwood is doing. I could see Baker introducing legislation to rip up the Alien Amnesty Act just to save his job, despite the even further damage it would do. Plus, what was he implying, that Supergirl and her family could get Secret Service protection? Their anonymity is their best protection, especially in the charged climate that the show is creating. And, Supergirl's secret identity is Kara Danvers! Not the other way around!

In any event, I'm really curious to find out how they are going to resolve this. In real life, it would take time for these beliefs to settle out and go away, but being a TV show I would imagine they would need to tie it into a momentous event in order to get the Big Ending. I wonder if Red Kara is going to be threaded into that, and if at the end of the season, if Supergirl is going be asked/told to leave Earth...? It's possible the resolution to the season could end in Lockwood's favor, which could mean Kara leaving Earth along with nearly all the aliens on the planet, which could set up an interesting next season.

Say, at the end of this season Supergirl and Superman and all the other aliens are 'voted off' the planet. Kandor is probably still close enough for them to reach so they can go there, but in their absence from Earth what if another alien threat shows up and Earth loses. Earth's champions are gone, subjugation follows and then they have to come back to liberate Earth. And I mean all the aliens coming back to liberate what had become their chosen home... It will interesting to see how it goes.

As to the little flubs, I can only assume that Nia being an alien means that her race's gender isn't so rigid, cause obviously the writers forgot that she started out as a man! And how can you forget that!? If having these clairvoyant powers is something everyone on her world can be prone to getting, then why not leave it that way?! Ugh!!

...
Also, I get they named that world Earth-90 because of 1990 Flash, but dammit, they already explicitly established that there are "only" 53 Earths. At this point they're just rubbing their hatred of continuity in my face.

And I see it as limiting to say that there are only 53. I don't know why they chose that number, but the many worlds theory is about an infinite number of worlds, where any and all eventualities can occur. So, I would prefer that they had not set a maximum number on it, for whatever reasoning can be applied to it. Though saying that the number 53 was chosen from a certain perspective point leaves wiggle room to add more (and any you need.)

Despite how squishy I am with the prejudice angle I was actually disappointed that they're not continuing it next week. Then I remembered the crossover starts and I'm all jazzed again!!:ali:
 
Thoughts on Bunker Hill...
  • 100% think Ben was talking to Lex Luthor on his phone call.
  • This Nia Nal stuff is starting to bore me tbh.
  • Manchester at the Lockwood’s, intense.
  • Brainy cracks me up.
  • “Tell that to Lois Lane” - nice name drop for next week.
  • Loved Kara’s super flick.
  • Why is it when Brainy fights it’s so funny haha.
  • Lockwood revealing himself to his wife as Agent Liberty by Manchester was so well done.
  • Smoke grenade reminded me of BvS.
  • Think Liberty could have been captured a better way.
  • The president wanting Supergirl to reveal her identity was stupid. How does he know she has a secret ID.
  • Well I knew Supergirl leaving the DEO was coming and I knew she’d be fired.
  • I’m really not convinced a prison would put Lockwood and Black in the same prison. But I’m wondering if this how well he introduced to Lex Luthor.

All in all a solid episode but was it good enough to be a mid season finale? I’m not so sure.

Additional: the Elseworlds teaser was ****ing incredible. One of the finest live action DC moments on screen ever and better than anything in the whole episode.
 
Also @flickchick85 , regarding the 53 Earth argument, I've been thinking more on this, and there could be reasons behind it;
  1. There are/were only 53 known (visited) Earth's from Harry's perspective
  2. There are/were only 53 Earth's in the multiverse that had developed and had people on
  3. The villain of the crossover may be responsible for having created more than 53 Earth's, or at least allowing a new bunch of Earth's to be connected to the current set.
  4. The writers simply screwed up.

Or... Assuming that there were (at one time) at least 90 universes, perhaps some were destroyed :wow:; and the remainder simply kept their prior designation. (Kinda like when a house burns down and the other houses keep their same street addresses.:word:)

Or perhaps the numbered names don’t indicate the sum total of universes; perhaps they’re just arbitrary designations. If so, I wonder who came up with them. Meta-textually, Earth 38 might well be an homage to the publication date of Action Comics #1 (1938). Likewise, Earth 90 might refer to the debut year of JWS’s The Flash (1990). But fictionally speaking, who/what decided on these numbers? Because – subjectively - each individual Earth would probably choose #1 for themselves. :cwink:
 
Or... Assuming that there were (at one time) at least 90 universes, perhaps some were destroyed :wow:; and the remainder simply kept their prior designation. (Kinda like when a house burns down and the other houses keep their same street addresses.:word:)

Or perhaps the numbered names don’t indicate the sum total of universes; perhaps they’re just arbitrary designations. If so, I wonder who came up with them. Meta-textually, Earth 38 might well be an homage to the publication date of Action Comics #1 (1938). Likewise, Earth 90 might refer to the debut year of JWS’s The Flash (1990). But fictionally speaking, who/what decided on these numbers? Because – subjectively - each individual Earth would probably choose #1 for themselves. :cwink:

I ****ing love that theory!

The 90 is definitely a reference to the TV series.
 
I like the possibility of a 38 homage to Action Comics 1. Cool if true.
 
I like the possibility of a 38 homage to Action Comics 1. Cool if true.
It is true. They said so when they named it that.

I love that theory, @Dr. From now on that will be my head canon (there having been far more Earths in the past and as all but 53 have been wiped out, they just kept their original designations), until they inevitably come along and ruin it with more shenanigans because the truth is continuity is and always has been very low on these people’s list of priorities, lol.
 
Really enjoyed this episode. Sam Witwer continues to bring it. I love how he has been portraying the character.

Fairly certain I know what the cousins are talking about on the farm. Am excited for it.
 
I thought that Superman and Lois would show up at the end of the episode if Kara went to visit them rather than 90s Flash showing up.

Why are Smallville Arrow and others part of Earth 90 though? Why not be part of Earth 01, which could call itself that to claim to be the first earth rather than Earth 1?

Also, why is the President demanding Supergirl's secret identity? Why does Lockwood even assume she has one?

In the MCU, do people demand to know Thor's identity? They just assume that he is Thor full time. Why didn't Supergirl just say she doesn't have a secret identity instead of refusing? Or say that she's Kara Zor El. That's hardly going to reveal anything about her.

If she didn't want to say her name was Kara then she could just use Zor-El. It's not like the President can check to verify.
 
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Awesome episode and 110% align with Manchester United's decisions in this episode. "I am the intolerant left!"
 
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"I gave you two hours so you wouldn't look like a crackhead at work again!" Never thought I'd hear such a thing on this show. :funny:

I thought the DEO already knew who Supergirl was (one of the things I don't like about the show). So, it was weird that it's an issue now. Also, I thought Superman (and Supergirl) not wearing masks always made most people assume that's just who they were 24/7. No secret identities.

The Nth metal scene was cool even though it didn't quite make sense.

Manchester was great as always.
 
Also, I thought Superman (and Supergirl) not wearing masks always made most people assume that's just who they were 24/7. No secret identities.
Yeah, this is the other thing that bothered me about that - not so much about the DEO/President, because I figured they'd have the inside track that she indeed has a secret identity - but Agent Liberty calling her out on that seemed weird. Because that's supposed to be part of the "genius" (as Batman once called it) of the Supers' "disguises" - no masks means they have nothing to hide, so the public just assumes they are just flying around being Superman and Supergirl all the time. And if someone notices that Clark or Kara looks like they're alter ego, it's just assumed to be a case of a normal person looking like a celebrity.
 
It doesn't seem like they thought it through properly, or were trying to make it like the comic version of Civil War with the secret identities.

But even if Lockwood called Supergirl out on it, she could easily refute it. Let's say that she were only Supergirl and Kara Danvers didn't exist. Why would she not simply answer the President that she isn't going to reveal any secret ID because she doesn't have one to reveal? Why talk about it endangering others she loves? That way she confirms that she does indeed have one.

Imagine in the MCU if someone asked Thor his secret identity. He'd be saying something like "Er... what do want me to tell you? Donald Blake?"

Kara could easily have said that the only reason Agent Liberty called her out on it is because he hides behind a mask and is now projecting onto her. But since she doesn't wear a mask, then it's obvious that this is her real face and she has nothing to hide. She is Supergirl and only Supergirl. And if they thought that doesn't sound like a real name, then she could say that her name is Matrix.

And if they don't like Matrix, she can tell them it's Linda. But why not accept Matrix? That was Matrix's real name.

Even if she did tell the President that she is Kara Danvers, that isn't her real name anyway. If she's an alien from the planet Krypton, then do they have people on Krypton with the surname "Danvers"?

The only real answer would be Kara Zor-El. But even if she gave that answer, what harm would it be? It's not like it's going to be of any real significance to the President. It's not like he knows who that is.

It's like when Lex Luthor and the Flash swapped bodies in the Justice League cartoon. Then Luthor removed Flash's mask to finally see who he was. And once he did, it made no difference, because he said that he had no idea who this was.

 
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In the MCU, do people demand to know Thor's identity? They just assume that he is Thor full time. Why didn't Supergirl just say she doesn't have a secret identity instead of refusing? Or say that she's Kara Zor El. That's hardly going to reveal anything about her.

If she didn't want to say her name was Kara then she could just use Zor-El. It's not like the President can check to verify.
Has it even been spoken in the show as to whether Superman is known by anyone as Kal-El? Kara saying "my name is Kara Zor-El" shouldn't make a blind bit of difference; it's not as if they're going to link Kara Zor-El to Kara Danvers. It was a stupid line [by the President] in the first place.
 
Yeah, this is the other thing that bothered me about that - not so much about the DEO/President, because I figured they'd have the inside track that she indeed has a secret identity - but Agent Liberty calling her out on that seemed weird. Because that's supposed to be part of the "genius" (as Batman once called it) of the Supers' "disguises" - no masks means they have nothing to hide, so the public just assumes they are just flying around being Superman and Supergirl all the time. And if someone notices that Clark or Kara looks like they're alter ego, it's just assumed to be a case of a normal person looking like a celebrity.
Right. That scene with him calling her out came off goofier than needed. “Show us who you really are!!!” to a lady not wearing a mask. :funny:
 
Right. That scene with him calling her out came off goofier than needed. “Show us who you really are!!!” to a lady not wearing a mask. :funny:

She should've said "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"
 
I was late to last weeks ep which was very good and this week continued the strong run the show is on this season. Manchester Black has been an interesting character so far, not bothered about J'onn trying to redeem him though, I think he'd be best as a full on heel vs Supergirl, he already has the gadgets (Is he Batman-like in the books?) to hurt her and the cunning, so I think if he becomes Lena's successful trial patient then he'll be a huge challenge for Kara.

Speaking of Lena, she didn't really feature this week but after the very interesting ep she had last week with her test patient, I'm worried she's heading dark, especially with a Lex appearence on the horizon.

I really enjoyed the Kara, Nia and Brainy team-up, Brainy has really grown on me this season and I thought their investigation and humorous interactions were the highlight of this weeks ep.

I was surprised/disappointed that Agent Liberty's identity was exposed to the degree it was, hopefully that's not the end of the character as a main part of the season as Sam Witwer has made Lockwood into a great villain.
 
So does the DEO even pay Supergirl anything? I never reality liked that she was working for/with them anyway. I think their relationship should be like Batman and the police; she helps them out but it's never something official.

Great season so far, my only problem with it is that the writers don't have a lot for J'ohn to do. I'm assuming it's because of budget cuts? (For the MM effects)

I don't see a real problem with Kara revealing her identity. Alex is in danger all the time. Her adopted mom could be put in witness protection.

There's always someone else; friends, coworkers at CatCo, former teachers and classmates, old boyfriends, etc.

Plus if she reveals her identity to the world, it wouldn't be too hard for reporters to figure out who Superman really is.
 
And even if she did expose herself and put her family in witness protection or under Secret Service, they will still be a target but further exposed then. As they are, her relations and friends are protected by anonymity. NO ONE knows who they are. Expose herself and suddenly everyone does know without a doubt. The former is much better than the latter. Just another dick move from the dick president.
 
It was simply the wrong answer to give the president that she was refusing to reveal her secret identity.

She should have just taken the bull by the horns and said "You are assuming I have a secret identity. But I don't hide behind a mask. Supergirl is who I am. I have a name, but it won't mean anything to you because you don't know anyone from my planet."
 

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