So How Was Church Today?

[Scourge2099]

Huh? That's exactly what somebody, especially a chick, would do if you had a booger hanging out. It's both funny, and embarassing, smiling and blushing is the most appropriate reaction. You either had a booger hanging out or toilet paper sticking out the back of your pants.

I was sitting down you jerk and I never poop at church. My poop would make the baby Jesus cry. I never have boogers hanging out from my nose.

 

[GhostPoet]

This Sunday I'm going to be announced to the entire congregation at both services at my church that I'm transitioning in to be the youth pastor, so I'm equal parts stoked/nervous as hades.

Last Sunday we had a guest speaker and he was preaching on The Good Samaritan, really interesting thoughts that have lingered with me over the week. The lawyer comes up with the question, "who is my neighbor?" which implies that there are people in this world (of different colors, cultures, and lifestyles) that might possibly not be our neighbor.

Jesus turns the question around and gives this incredible parable about the religious leaders casting a blind eye on a hurt man. It's not about asking "who is my neighbor" but "am I acting like one?"

good stuff. i'm still trying to do the "acting like one" part. It's not easy considering bad past experiences with people.

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

Yeah this guy was on it. He was a former law enforcement worker so he was sharing with us his former bias and bigotry. It was real interesting. Sometimes speakers get this "y'all need to be like this" tone which even though it is truth seems kinda condescending.

This guy was more like "I've done a lot of wrong, here's a couple stories" and from the pain he was expressing in his immaturity I think it hits home a little bit better with people like me.

It's real easy to say Jesus loves you to our friends, family, or a random homeless person on the street. But it's more than saying it, it's about showing them, and that's the hard part, that's when I can get in the way.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Hey good luck with the Youth Pastoring gig.

 

[rodhulk]

One thing I've studied a bit on lately is that the sacrificial system is going to be set back up in Israel one day and that Jesus may even be the one doing the temple sacrifices. I'm curious on what other christians think about that.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Where'd you read that?

 

[Mary Jane Watson]

One thing I've studied a bit on lately is that the sacrificial system is going to be set back up in Israel one day and that Jesus may even be the one doing the temple sacrifices. I'm curious on what other christians think about that.

I have never heard about that before.

 

[rodhulk]

Well, about the restored temple and the re-start of the temple sacrifices, read Ezekiel 40-48. Points to consider:

1) The temple described here is "much to large to fit on the present Temple Mount site" and "very different in many details from any previous temples that have existed in Israel (or elsewhere).

2) Ezekiel 43:1-7 tells us that God's glory will reenter the Temple through the East Gate and He then pronounces that from that time on He would "live among the Israelites forever" and that the house of Israel would NEVER AGAIN defile his holy name. Something they have and continue to do to this day. So, obvioulsy this has not been fulfilled yet.

3) Ezekiel 45:17 says that the prince will conduct Priestly sacrificial duties. No King was allowed to carry out these duties. But Christ is both King and High Priest according to Hebrews. Zechariah 6:13 (can read all of Zechariah 6:9--15) also prophesied this. A high Priest is on duty until he dies but since Christ is High Priest, he will never die and so will be on duty forever. Part of the sacrificial duties are to perform the sacrifices, hence, Jesus will quite possibly and probably carry out the sacrifices. Hard to believe, I know, but I have no other answer when I search the scriptures.

4) There is no wall of partition to exclude Gentiles (compare Ephesians 2:14). The Gentiles were previously welcome in the Outer Courts, but excluded from the inner courts on pain and death.

5) Major changes to the altar: The Sacrificial Altar will be approached by a ramp from the east. Previous altars were all approached from the south. Now there will be stairs to the altar, not a ramp as previously.

Outside of Ezekiel, one can read in:

1) Jeremiah 33:18 tells us that the levites will one day NEVER "fail to have men sit on the throne of the house of Israel" and will NEVER "fail to have a man to stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings and to present sacrifices."

2) Zechariah 14:16-21 and Isaiah 56:6-7 show the future sacrifices and other things for the future.

3) Hosea 3:4-5 says Israel will be without a King, sacrifices, etc... for many days but that it would not be forever. Since Israel has always had Christ offered to them (as the whole world has) these sacrifices can't be Christ and his sacrifice but the actual animal sacrifices. And Hosea 3:4-5 is the last days as clearly shown so it is still yet to be completed.




I believe the sacrifices are performed in 'memory' of Christ since animal sacrifices never have and never will atone for sins and we have Christ who HAS atoned for our sins. These sacrifices done in menory of Christ's sacrifice could be similar to communion.

And Ezekiel 40-48 deals much more with this than I mentioned, I just mentioned some brief yet very imprtant points that suggest a future temple with the sacrificial system restored.

 

[AndThePickles]

So here's what first got me interested in starting this debate. I was at church maybe a month ago and one of my pastors gave a fantastic message that was spot on toward how I was feeling about church and christians in general at the time... and that's ashamed of them for how they act and how judgemental they (and I) could be. I was kinda falling away from God and church before we came to this church maybe three months ago and I'm completely changing my mind.

He posted a blog about it and it ended up on this site.

An Open Apology For The Church

As someone who hasn't been to church in years, I can say that after reading that message, I would 100% be willing to go to church just to listen to a sermon given by that pastor. Very heartfelt and interesting apology.

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

Hey good luck with the Youth Pastoring gig.

Thanks man, it's pretty exciting.

 

[JewishHobbit]

As someone who hasn't been to church in years, I can say that after reading that message, I would 100% be willing to go to church just to listen to a sermon given by that pastor. Very heartfelt and interesting apology.

You know, I'm not sure but I WANT to say they have some of our services online somewhere, but I could be wrong. I've never looked. I'll see what I can find out if you like.

However, you can probably find him fairly easily in other places. I didn't realize this until recently but he was in 9 episodes of General Hospital and has appeared in several indie films. I don't know anything about them but I found a few previews for one that made me smile. He's the Amish looking guy

Character Preview

Official Trailer

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

Today was pretty amazing!

I hope everybody had a great Sunday!

 

[Duke]

I did'nt go to church this week, but we've been discussing about how blessings have conditions. etc.

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

church is always fun...but yesterday there were too many songs we hadnt practiced so i had to improvise on the guitar

 

[JewishHobbit]

We ended up missing church because we woke up later than usual and I had a roaring migrain. I hate missing church because, for the first time in about 8 to 10 years, I actually really look forward to going.


Had a pretty awkward conversation Saturday night though. I had some friends over and we were playing the board game RISK and then the card game Hearts... and at one time we were all Penticostal, all but one of us attending the same church. Well, since then my wife and I changed to a Non-Denominational church and another has kinda dropped out of church but kept his faith... though definately not Penticostal anymore.

So we were talking and 3 of the 6 of us started talking about the Bible, which is fine, I enjoy that, but then they started talking about gay people and going to hell and then the Rapture. Well, we were all in the same conversation but when the gay people/hell thing came up my wife and friend kinda bowed out of the conversation but I gave my two cents about their sins being no worse than my sins and all that and they say they agreed but then found scripture otherwise saying things like "Dude that's awesome!" and all that... very insensative. I can tell my wife and other friend were getting annoyed because they think moreso like me (and I'm not sure if my friend even considers homosexuality a sin at all) so I changed the subject to the Rapture basing it off of the May 21st prediction. Well, we made fun of that guy for a while, all of us, and then I mentioned how one of my pastors actually doesn't believe in the Rapture and it was like I stabbed my 3 friends with a hot fork. Automatic Defense mode! I explained how he is always open to other people's beliefs and admits he could easily be wrong but they just had this mentality that my church is all of a sudden evil or something. They began pressuring me with scriptures supporting the Rapture like I was the enemy but I told them I didn't say I didn't believe, just that the preacher didn't and I read some interesting articles about it but they just went on about it. Needless to say, I changed the subject again... but man... old friends of the same mind suddenly having different spiritual beliefs is going to take some getting used to.

But at least something good came out of it... it did distract them enough to help maintain my hold on conquering Asia in RISK for one extra turn in

 

[Mr.Webs]

Dude, congratulations. Asia is a sonuvagun to overrun.

And some people get so defensive. I don't understand it. The only thing I can come up with is that these people are simply insecure about they're own beliefs that they have this need to jump on someone else when they show a viewpoint that differs from their own. If you are comfortable enough with yourself and your spirituality, when someone brings up something different from your ideas, it should just roll off.

Be a mirror. Reflect, but don't cling.

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

church is always fun...but yesterday there were too many songs we hadnt practiced so i had to improvise on the guitar

Sometimes I feel those are the best moments because I feel sometimes we over practice and things get a little...ordinary.

And regarding the whole thing about the rapture. I dunno, I feel like a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think that's one of the theological issues that is free to debate.

To me there are certain things believers can't argue about it, or in other words there are theological tenets that should be clung to (Jesus died for our sins, etc.) and there are things (like the Rapture) that I can't imagine God going "nope, you're not a dispensational premillenialist, I'm not satisfied."

 

[JewishHobbit]

Dude, congratulations. Asia is a sonuvagun to overrun.

And some people get so defensive. I don't understand it. The only thing I can come up with is that these people are simply insecure about they're own beliefs that they have this need to jump on someone else when they show a viewpoint that differs from their own. If you are comfortable enough with yourself and your spirituality, when someone brings up something different from your ideas, it should just roll off.

Be a mirror. Reflect, but don't cling.

I lost Asia the very next turn, but at least I got 7 armies once prior to it happening

And I can understand their mindset because it used to be mine. In my mind I was right and everyone else had misinterpreted what they read. To challenge a fundamental belief like the Rapture would be insanity. I wasn't open to the idea of things being up to interpretation because 1) I wanted my beliefs to be right, and 2) I was afraid what would happen if they were wrong.

I was a very strong christian back then, but not the most open minded or caring of people when it came to beliefs differing my own, even other denominations of christianity. It was Penticostal or nothing. I may not be as strong in my faith now as I used to be (I'm working on it) but I find that I'm happier in it now that I'm more open to the idea of hearing and considering people's different interpretations. I'm happier to be realizing my own belief in God rather than what other people tell me is the true way to believe.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Sometimes I feel those are the best moments because I feel sometimes we over practice and things get a little...ordinary.

And regarding the whole thing about the rapture. I dunno, I feel like a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think that's one of the theological issues that is free to debate.

To me there are certain things believers can't argue about it, or in other words there are theological tenets that should be clung to (Jesus died for our sins, etc.) and there are things (like the Rapture) that I can't imagine God going "nope, you're not a dispensational premillenialist, I'm not satisfied."

I agree. I personally believe in it and my wife is questioning. That's actually the only thing she brought up during that awkward conversation is that believing in the Rapture is not a requirement for reaching heaven so it shouldn't be as big of a deal if someone disagrees. Personally, differences in scriptural interpretations are facinating to me... provided it isn't the key elements like you mention.

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

Sometimes I feel those are the best moments because I feel sometimes we over practice and things get a little...ordinary.
"

thats very true! i love improvising...it flows well with worship...my problem was we hadnt barely practiced any of the songs so the beat would get off track real fast...its a kink we rarely have an issue on...was just an off day i suppose

 

[Mr.Webs]

I lost Asia the very next turn, but at least I got 7 armies once prior to it happening

And I can understand their mindset because it used to be mine. In my mind I was right and everyone else had misinterpreted what they read. To challenge a fundamental belief like the Rapture would be insanity. I wasn't open to the idea of things being up to interpretation because 1) I wanted my beliefs to be right, and 2) I was afraid what would happen if they were wrong.

I was a very strong christian back then, but not the most open minded or caring of people when it came to beliefs differing my own, even other denominations of christianity. It was Penticostal or nothing. I may not be as strong in my faith now as I used to be (I'm working on it) but I find that I'm happier in it now that I'm more open to the idea of hearing and considering people's different interpretations. I'm happier to be realizing my own belief in God rather than what other people tell me is the true way to believe.

Well, I'm happy to hear that.t: In my opinion, faith isn't something that you sign up for to fit in with everyone else's way of thinking, or use it to feel higher than others. Faith is a tool that should be used to keep us in line with our own happiness, to keep us from just seeing the darkness.

 

[rodhulk]

I was talking with a Church friend the other day and we talked about the spiritual body believers are to get. While it may be open to debate, it does seem likely (from our POV) that the spiritual bodies will actually be a physical body but made differently than a person's earthly body and should have some sort of extra-dimensional attributes to it. A reason we conclude 'physical bodies" is that, for example, people will still "eat" when in their spiritual bodies. Reasons we conclude "extra-dimensional" is the spiritual bodies will be immune to getting sick or hurt.

I'm curious if you guys have ever thought about this and/or what your thoughts are on this.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I've always kinda pictured it like before sin entered the world with Adam and Eve. Perfected bodies that do not age or get sick. I've always moreso wondered what age we will look or at what mentality we will be in our perfected bodies (young, old, etc.)

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

It gets back to this book I read maybe three years ago: Heaven by Randy Alcorn. It's funny because I always thought of having like "angel" bodies or halos or whatever but Alcorn's case was that really, God's just bringing creation back to what it used to be.

 

[rodhulk]

I've always kinda pictured it like before sin entered the world with Adam and Eve. Perfected bodies that do not age or get sick. I've always moreso wondered what age we will look or at what mentality we will be in our perfected bodies (young, old, etc.)

While it is possible as you had said about having perfected bodies that would be equal to Adam and Eve before they fell, I personally would say no since the Bible says that the future bodies will not be of blood and bone, something Adam and Eve had before sin entered the world (Eve was made from one of Adam's bones - ribs, and this was before they fell).

Many in the Church do hold your view, though, and again, there is nothing concrete about our future bodies.