The Flash The Flash season 3 episode 15 "The Wrath of Savitar"

[X Knight]

another theory I read on IGN ( who also feel Wally could be Savitar ) is that Savitar is HR. Savitar's line about "myths" and referring to himself as a God may be in line with HR writing exaggerated stories about himself as the hero.

 

[just one thing]

another theory I read on IGN ( who also feel Wally could be Savitar ) is that Savitar is HR. Savitar's line about "myths" and referring to himself as a God may be in line with HR writing exaggerated stories about himself as the hero.

quoting was reverb said to ciso was interesting.

Also what the disciple said to barry about 'should have married her sooner'

 

[Stringer]

Wally was justified for publicly accusing Barry of only proposing to Iris so he could save her life? What's wrong with that anyway? And where does Wally get off acting so aggrieved? He first met Iris only a few months ago.

He continues to manipulate people under the excuse that he knows what's best for them even though he's always wrong for doing it. Iris is his sister by blood there's nothing wrong with caring about her that much so soon. He had every right to be upset.

 

[zenith16]

so I've been see the theory that savatar might be wally in other places and it's not computing well for me. cause of what savatar said to barry of how the crystal and the box holding ended up in Egypt for julien to find on his expedition and when he was talking through the same person/ character and how he said that barry the older furture version trapped him in the crystal in the first place.

that an odd thing to blame him for if he wally from the jump . and we also been through the weird theory of Eddie too when zoom was around . I really don't think it's Eddie at all. and we're gettinghim back supposedly. but we'll they might have been talking using the actor for the speed force same with Robbie Amell.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

So I don't know if this has been proposed anywhere, but I'm thinking Savitar is "Future Flash" from the comics, the Barry who turns evil after the death of Wally.

-He tells Barry to trust him that he never gets over his parents death. That's something a future Barry would have certainty over.
-Like Future Flash, Savitar's look is blue.
-He says "I am the future, Flash", which could be a play on words.
-It would be unexpected if Flash is the one who betrays team Flash.

 

[Meulenhof_K]

So I don't know if this has been proposed anywhere, but I'm thinking Savitar is "Future Flash" from the comics, the Barry who turns evil after the death of Wally.

-He tells Barry to trust him that he never gets over his parents death. That's something a future Barry would have certainty over.
-Like Future Flash, Savitar's look is blue.
-He says "I am the future, Flash", which could be a play on words.
-It would be unexpected if Flash is the one who betrays team Flash.

I like this theory! Savitar said a few times "i am the future, flash" or is it "i am the future-flash"??
Savitar named most of the times Barry "Barry" and not Flash..

Wally or Eddie theories doesn't seem too add up imo.

Like Zoom tried too prove that Barry also has the darkness..
Maybe in the future, Barry separated his evil self, by using the philosophers stone and locked it up in the speedforce.

But as other theory's alot of gaps, so we'll just have too wait and see.

 

[Faceman675]

So I don't know if this has been proposed anywhere, but I'm thinking Savitar is "Future Flash" from the comics, the Barry who turns evil after the death of Wally.

-He tells Barry to trust him that he never gets over his parents death. That's something a future Barry would have certainty over.
-Like Future Flash, Savitar's look is blue.
-He says "I am the future, Flash", which could be a play on words.
-It would be unexpected if Flash is the one who betrays team Flash.

I like this theory, and a lot does seem to point in that direction, but I don't think this is what's gonna happen... we know the series does vary from the comics, but Future Flash went back in time and started his killing spree, while present Flash was stuck in the speed force. Savitar could of course start to do that now, since he's been freed. Also, I don't think the writers are playing with us - I think Savitar really says 'I am the future, Flash', and not 'I am the future Flash'.
Then again, in the crossover a few weeks ago, Barry from the future did say 'not to trust anyone, not even me'.

I don't like to admit it, but if Savitar really is gonna be someone close to Barry, I think the Wally theory seems most plausible to me.
But, on the other hand, when Jay told Barry about Savitar, saying 'he was the first to be a speedster' (or something like that) didn't we see a white male, with blonde hair from behind raising his hands above his head?

I'm starting to think/hope that Savitar is just Savitar.

 

[zenith16]

I like this theory, and a lot does seem to point in that direction, but I don't think this is what's gonna happen... we know the series does vary from the comics, but Future Flash went back in time and started his killing spree, while present Flash was stuck in the speed force. Savitar could of course start to do that now, since he's been freed. Also, I don't think the writers are playing with us - I think Savitar really says 'I am the future, Flash', and not 'I am the future Flash'.
Then again, in the crossover a few weeks ago, Barry from the future did say 'not to trust anyone, not even me'.

I don't like to admit it, but if Savitar really is gonna be someone close to Barry, I think the Wally theory seems most plausible to me.
But, on the other hand, when Jay told Barry about Savitar, saying 'he was the first to be a speedster' (or something like that) didn't we see a white male, with blonde hair from behind raising his hands above his head?

I'm starting to think/hope that Savitar is just Savitar.

you should also take into account what he told in Julian's body. that barry put him into the crytal & box and put in ancient Egypt. and that why he's been after him currently from his stand point of view when barry created flash point.


I don't think he's wally and i really don't think he's Eddie. but I need more evidence. but there's alot that not right with those two theory's being Savatar . he's someone esle for now .

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Fat practical Savitar is hilarious.

 

[Frodo]

I don't think Savitar is Barry. Future Barry as the mysterious villian Speedster has been a fan theory since Episode one with Reverse Flash, when some fans speculated that Wells was really Barry from the future, then with Zoom in season 2.

Wally as Savitar also doesn't make sense to me. I think Eddie or Julian ,of the characters we know of at least, makes the most sense to me.

 

[the gael]

I like this theory, and a lot does seem to point in that direction, but I don't think this is what's gonna happen... we know the series does vary from the comics, but Future Flash went back in time and started his killing spree, while present Flash was stuck in the speed force. Savitar could of course start to do that now, since he's been freed. Also, I don't think the writers are playing with us - I think Savitar really says 'I am the future, Flash', and not 'I am the future Flash'.
Then again, in the crossover a few weeks ago, Barry from the future did say 'not to trust anyone, not even me'.

I don't like to admit it, but if Savitar really is gonna be someone close to Barry, I think the Wally theory seems most plausible to me.
But, on the other hand, when Jay told Barry about Savitar, saying 'he was the first to be a speedster' (or something like that) didn't we see a white male, with blonde hair from behind raising his hands above his head?

I'm starting to think/hope that Savitar is just Savitar.

At this point, Savitar Being Barry is more probable than Savitar being Wally, for a lot of reasons :

1) Savitar seems to be a master planner and a great strategist, and I don't think that it really fit the impulsive and more spontaneous personnality of Wally. Yes, if he was trapped in the speed force for centuries, he can change... but I think that even before his transformation, Savitar was already a strategist.

2) I don't think he could kill his sister, especially after how he reacted at the vision of Iris death

3) Savitar said that that Barry trapped him in the speedforce, but it's Savitar who trapped Wally

On the other hand, I'm more and more suspicious of HR, whose personnality fits way more the one of Savitar. He seems too cool and confident in his discussion with Savitar, plus isn't he the one who pushed Cisco into making Wally see Iris death, ruining Barry bad plan with the ring.

He is the one who call Wally "Wallace"... like Savitar. He is the one who is the con artist, exactly the guy who would persuade other people that he is a god. Plus, Abra Kadabra, who is supposed to know the true identity of Savitar... is from Earth 19, if I believe the synopsis of his episode, and who is also from Earth 19 ?

Yes, he is supposed to be present at the same time as Savitar in the vision of Iris death, but Savitar is a speedster, and we all know what the speedsters call "speed mirages"

 

[BestGirl]

He continues to manipulate people under the excuse that he knows what's best for them even though he's always wrong for doing it. Iris is his sister by blood there's nothing wrong with caring about her that much so soon. He had every right to be upset.

Then perhaps he could have discussed his concerns with Barry privately rather than challenging him in front of everyone? He saw Iris get killed so he knew what was at stake and what Barry was trying to do. Besides, it's not as though Barry is faking his feelings for Iris. He really loves her and may well have proposed to her in the future anyway.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

But having Wells be the secret identity of the villain again? Ugh.

 

[The Chris]

Then perhaps he could have discussed his concerns with Barry privately rather than challenging him in front of everyone? He saw Iris get killed so he knew what was at stake and what Barry was trying to do. Besides, it's not as though Barry is faking his feelings for Iris. He really loves her and may well have proposed to her in the future anyway.

Yeah I can't blame him for doing that. Especially since he loves her so much anyway and knew they were supposed to be married before the flashpoint mess up. Big reason why the end scene didn't work for me was because it was Wally's foolishness and Snow's mistake that were the big screwups in this one. I loved what Savitar actually said of Wally. He's a hero for all the wrong reasons. I really don't like this show's version of the character. So damn unlikable. So pig headed and doesn't have the benefit of a strong actor like Barry does.

 

[flashpo1nt]

good episode, i think the writers don't really have to give solid evidence who savitar really is, i mean we know little about him except from what jay said that savitar was the first meta to ever be granted speed which is why he's so much faster than the other speedsters.

this indicates that savitar is a totally different foe/person, not wally, or barry...but that doesn't mean the writers can't just change the story and allow savitar to be revealed as wally or barry.

i take this season so far as savitar being a totally different opponent, and i'd like to add that this time it seemed like barry was able to defend himself against savitar not like the other times he got dragged and thrown around like a rag doll and couldn't do squat....i wonder if barry just holds back his true potential and doesn't realize it, only saying this because he was able to contend with savitar this time or at least fight back.

guess we'll just have to wait and see how the rest of the season pans out.

 

[zenith16]

At this point, Savitar Being Barry is more probable than Savitar being Wally, for a lot of reasons :

1) Savitar seems to be a master planner and a great strategist, and I don't think that it really fit the impulsive and more spontaneous personnality of Wally. Yes, if he was trapped in the speed force for centuries, he can change... but I think that even before his transformation, Savitar was already a strategist.

2) I don't think he could kill his sister, especially after how he reacted at the vision of Iris death

3) Savitar said that that Barry trapped him in the speedforce, but it's Savitar who trapped Wally

On the other hand, I'm more and more suspicious of HR, whose personnality fits way more the one of Savitar. He seems too cool and confident in his discussion with Savitar, plus isn't he the one who pushed Cisco into making Wally see Iris death, ruining Barry bad plan with the ring.

He is the one who call Wally "Wallace"... like Savitar. He is the one who is the con artist, exactly the guy who would persuade other people that he is a god. Plus, Abra Kadabra, who is supposed to know the true identity of Savitar... is from Earth 19, if I believe the synopsis of his episode, and who is also from Earth 19 ?

Yes, he is supposed to be present at the same time as Savitar in the vision of Iris death, but Savitar is a speedster, and we all know what the speedsters call "speed mirages"

awesome your in the same thought process as me how ever I think I have to correct you on the "speed mirages" they are too translucent to be what we saw with HR like project from early stage hologram or bad old school film movie projectors. and HR was too solid looking to be "speed mirages" and which looking they fading or ghost like.


the word you may be looking is another time Remanent as they look and are solid

But having Wells be the secret identity of the villain again? Ugh.

yes it's true its bad idea and the simple explanation of how he'd know they'd choose earth 19 won't be explainable to the audience. it like zooms over convoluted plan of how he knew they ever come to earth 2 or how he even found out about earth on in the first place and that was very poorly explained from the writers to the audience. I don't think it;s good idea to risk that again.

and seriously rehashing (so soon) on tv show you run? really?

good episode, i think the writers don't really have to give solid evidence who savitar really is, i mean we know little about him except from what jay said that savitar was the first meta to ever be granted speed which is why he's so much faster than the other speedsters.

this indicates that savitar is a totally different foe/person, not wally, or barry...but that doesn't mean the writers can't just change the story and allow savitar to be revealed as wally or barry.

As I said more then once up top though We should also take into account what Savatar told them in Julian's body. that barry put him into the crytal & box and put in ancient Egypt. and that why he's been after him currently from his stand point of view when barry created flash point.


I don't think he's wally and i really don't think he's Eddie. but I need more evidence. but there's alot that not right with those two theory's being Savatar . he's someone else for now .


I do believe he was human at one point.

i take this season so far as savitar being a totally different opponent, and i'd like to add that this time it seemed like barry was able to defend himself against savitar not like the other times he got dragged and thrown around like a rag doll and couldn't do squat....i wonder if barry just holds back his true potential and doesn't realize it, only saying this because he was able to contend with savitar this time or at least fight back.

again as said he said older future Barry put him into that crystal & box as he said in julian body while savatar was in the box before being found by julian in egypt and he was in that Egyptian tomb for centuries in the past .


the only reason he was beating barry is cause this version of barry isn't as seasoned as the one that put him in that crystal in the first place and sent him to the time of Egypt to be locked up three ways in that era .

guess we'll just have to wait and see how the rest of the season pans out.

yes that what we should all do we need more clues but the wally is just to throw people off and people have saying eddie since he disappeared and they were really pushing it since the time zoom was around and it didn't make sense then ether. he killed him to stop Reverse flash blame barry is too ludacris when it 's Rf to blame there.


And using HR as I said with jedi arrow is just rehashing the convoluted plan what zoom explained about his own plan , which didn't make sense about how they do certain thing's that lead his plan to fruition. and that will be problem if their at the point of rehashing some that was done just a year before .

 

[flashpo1nt]

again as said he said older future Barry put him into that crystal & box as he said in julian body while savatar was in the box before being found by julian in egypt and he was in that Egyptian tomb for centuries in the past .


the only reason he was beating barry is cause this version of barry isn't as seasoned as the one that put him in that crystal in the first place and sent him to the time of Egypt to be locked up three ways in that era.

ya i know the history of the box and crystal, also in the comics savitar was a former eastern bloc military pilot. While flying an experimental supersonic plane, he was infused with speed force energy that gave him incredible superspeed.

So he's technically a totally different enemy unless the writers pull a rabbit out of there hats and reveal him being another version of barry, wally, thawne, someone who's already been on the show.

Yes future barry locked savitar up, I'm talking about the current version of barry in season 3 has fought savitar this whole season, the same barry that just fought savitar in episode 15 is the same barry that got dragged and thrown around like a rag doll in those previous episodes....my point being pretty clear that in episode 15 barry was able to actually fight back and defend himself compared to his other encounters with savitar, just my opinion showing maybe he holds back or still just doesn't understand how to tap into the speedforce to use his true potential.

 

[Mask&Cape]

I take back my past criticism of Wally being overly selfish and egotistical. I knew Kid Flash was supposed to be like that but I thought Wally was just too much that way. However, there was a purpose to it. In order for him to manipulated to this degree he couldn't be a playful and comedic cocky little twit. He had had to be really, really full of himself.

Finally Iris got to do something of note in this series - even if it was still bound within the realm of "just being a girlfriend".

And as much as I enjoy Joe's character, can he not be so ridiculously understanding and supportive when his kids** mess up? This was all Barry's fault and the writer's should allow Jesse Martin lose his cool once in a while.

** Granted there is nothing biological there, but the series has made a big deal of Joe and Barry viewing each other as father and son. Am I the only one thinking that maybe Joe shouldn't be so cool with Barry and Iris being in love?

And what exactly was Caitlin apologising about at the end of the episode? The fact that she had deceived everyone and kept the fragment of the Philosopher's Stone is how Savatar had been trapped in the first place. That he had escaped was on entirely on Barry and Wally, irrelevant of the fact that they were manipulated. A thank you from all concerned would be well in order.

AND can someone please explain why the writer's and producers brought Jesse Quick back into the show if she is just going to stand in the background and not use her powers when she is needed? Yes, the show is about The Flash, but the writer's and producers of The Flash have complicated the show with the notion of there being a third speedster and cause further complications by the fact that she doesn't do anything. There is simply no way to explain away why she wouldn't have gone with Barry to find Wally nor why she would just stand about in angst watching on a screen while The Flash faced Savatar alone. I like Jesse and the actress - she is much better than either Iris or Wally - and I'd much rather this season had dealt with Barry having her as a sidekick. Or better, give her and her dad a couple of stand alone Earth 2 episodes.

 

[The Shape]

Fat practical Savitar is hilarious.

Personally, I think practical Savitar looks way better than cartoonish CGI Savitar.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

I wish they'd go for more of a middle ground, practical Savitar is kinda clunky looking at times.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Has it been suggested yet that Wally is Savatar?

 

[zenith16]

ya i know the history of the box and crystal, also in the comics savitar was a former eastern bloc military pilot. While flying an experimental supersonic plane, he was infused with speed force energy that gave him incredible superspeed.

So he's technically a totally different enemy unless the writers pull a rabbit out of there hats and reveal him being another version of barry, wally, thawne, someone who's already been on the show.

yeah knowing the writers, they might not use the pilot guy but it would be good to not have it be some one that they met or let into their inner circle like HR cause it's just doing what was done with zoom pretending to be jay Garrick and the weird thing again with how he knew they'd choose some one from earth 19 . the plan is too convoluted and was question by smart viewer of the audience already. if thei be comes a pattern .... which is why agree Jedi arrow the poster. it's not agood idea to rehash for of habit or no0t it's not good.

Yes future barry locked savitar up, I'm talking about the current version of barry in season 3 has fought savitar this whole season, the same barry that just fought savitar in episode 15 is the same barry that got dragged and thrown around like a rag doll in those previous episodes...

Don't worry I undersTood.

my point being pretty clear that in episode 15 barry was able to actually fight back and defend himself compared to his other encounters with savitar, just my opinion showing maybe he holds back or still just doesn't understand how to tap into the speedforce to use his true potential.

yes there alot of factors there it's both this was new eneme in that savitar is still a higher level of experience of knowledge of use of their powers and barry while seasoned ( not the right words but early stages) and a teacher right now, this season isn't at the point he should be yet in knowing every thing he's capable of . "Yet ." so he doesn't know his own full true potential or all the tricks he can do himself yet still. that does happen in life .

 

[zenith16]

And what exactly was Caitlin apologising about at the end of the episode? The fact that she had deceived everyone and kept the fragment of the Philosopher's Stone is how Savatar had been trapped in the first place. That he had escaped was on entirely on Barry and Wally, irrelevant of the fact that they were manipulated. A thank you from all concerned would be well in order.

Apparently she kept a piece of the crystal which I didn't know it was chipped in any ways before barry tossed it into the speed force with jay's help. Thus she was the betrayer to the team . And that's how savatar was able to still do his mind games and do it it with wally of all people.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Personally, I think practical Savitar looks way better than cartoonish CGI Savitar.

I would have been fine with it if they had not already established a look that makes it clear they "redesigned" him, because they couldn't pull off the look practically.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Best episode in a while. For all its loose ends, the director brought it back and Andrew brought it exactly what it needed.