The Iran Thread II

Hobgoblin

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Right...and the US government support for Israel has to do with 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. :whatever:

In some circles, yes thats true (*cough*GeorgeWBush*cough*). But you see, this is a Constitutional Republic. We vote for a new President every four years and they are guaranteed to be gone after eight. Iran is a theocratic dictatorship. We can vote out a nut if we dont like them, Iranians cant. Mahmoud aint going anywhere, not without a fight. Even then, its the clerics that have the real power and they arent electable. So its not a valid comparison.
 
No one in the Middle East cares about Palestinians, only the political points they bring. Middle Eastern countries are the reason for their current plight. If they had accepted the Palestinian people after the creation of Israel, there would be no Israeli-Palestinian problem today.

That would be like the British government trying to kick all of the Irish out of Northern Ireland and then attempt to force the surrounding counties form continental Europe to absorb them. They didn't have an obligation to absorb them. The Palestinians shouldn't have been kicked out of Israel in the first place but I won't beat that Dead horse.
 
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In some circles, yes thats true (*cough*GeorgeWBush*cough*). But you see, this is a Constitutional Republic. We vote for a new President every four years and they are guaranteed to be gone after eight. Iran is a theocratic dictatorship. We can vote out a nut if we dont like them, Iranians cant.

So your building justification for going to war with Iran because you believe:

A: The Iranian army is intent on end of the world prophecy with Israel.
B: Their government is not like ours?

Those are your justifications for starting a new war? It never occurred to you that the Sheikhs and Religious leaders of Saudi Arabia have even worse to say about Israel, or the fact that some of our biggest allies are Religous theocracies and Communists?
 
Iran 'may be working on nuclear warhead'

(CNN) -- Iran may currently be working on secretly developing a nuclear warhead for a missile, the IAEA director general said Thursday in a draft report.

It's the first time that the United Nations' nuclear watchdog agency has issued such a strong warning about current Iranian nuclear activities.
The statement comes in a draft report obtained by CNN. The report, dated Thursday, has not yet been approved by the board of governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

The report also said Tehran began enriching uranium to a level at which it can sustain a nuclear reaction before United Nations inspectors arrived to monitor the process, and in defiance of a specific request that it not so do.
The IAEA asked Iran earlier this month not to boost uranium enrichment to 20 percent "before the necessary additional safeguards procedures were in place."

When inspectors arrived the following day, February 10, "they were informed that Iran had already begun to feed the low enriched" uranium into the enrichment machinery "the previous evening."

The United States and its allies have long feared that Iran aims to develop the capacity to build a nuclear bomb. Iran denies it, saying its nuclear program is designed to produce civilian energy and for medical use.
 
So your building justification for going to war with Iran because you believe:

A: The Iranian army is intent on end of the world prophecy with Israel.
B: Their government is not like ours?

Those are your justifications for starting a new war? It never occurred to you that the Sheikhs and Religious leaders of Saudi Arabia have even worse to say about Israel, or the fact that some of our biggest allies are Religous theocracies and Communists?

Who said I was advocating a new war? When did I say that?
 
That would be like the British government trying to kick all of the Irish out of Northern Ireland and then attempt to force the surrounding counties form continental Europe to absorb them. They didn't have an obligation to absorb them. The Palestinians shouldn't have been kicked out of Israel in the first place but I won't beat that Dead horse.

You are correct, the Middle Eastern countries didn't have the "obligation" to absorb them - but it would have been in their interest to do so. Palestinians were better educated and more skilled than most cultures of the Middle East during the time - by refusing to accept these Palestinians, countries did it to their DETRIMENT.

Also, during this time - a lot of communities and ethnic groups migrated to different countries. Other countries accepted them, the Middle Eastern countries did not simply for political motives. It helped promote antisemitism in the Arab world by keeping the Palestinians in tents at the Israeli border.
 
Norman's right on that the Arab world has screwed over the Palestinians just as much as the Israelis have.
 
Norman's right on that the Arab world has screwed over the Palestinians just as much as the Israelis have.

I'm pretty sure you and Norman are wrong on this one. I don't see droves of Palestinian suicide squads out there to kill Arabs.
 
I'm pretty sure you and Norman are wrong on this one. I don't see droves of Palestinian suicide squads out there to kill Arabs.

That's because the Palestinian people don't realize they are nothing but pawns to the other Arab states. Doesn't change the facts.
 
I'm pretty sure you and Norman are wrong on this one. I don't see droves of Palestinian suicide squads out there to kill Arabs.

Just because the Palestinians are not acting out against other Arabs, doesn't mean what Norman is saying is wrong....

I agree, they are getting screwed from their own as well.
 
That's because the Palestinian people don't realize they are nothing but pawns to the other Arab states. Doesn't change the facts.

Well we could analyze those facts. Israeli Persecution, Oppression, and Injustice towards the Palestinians vs Arab Persecution, Oppression, and Injustice directed at Palestinians.

Is there really any question?
 
Arab terrorist groups bring much of the bloodshed on their own people, so are they not bringing on their own people much of hardships and turmoil that the arab people now suffer?
 
Just because the Palestinians are not acting out against other Arabs, doesn't mean what Norman is saying is wrong....

I agree, they are getting screwed from their own as well.

Don't refugees in general get screwed? Majority of the screwing is from the Israelis and they are proud of it.
 
Arab terrorist groups bring much of the bloodshed on their own people, so are they not bringing on their own people much of hardships and turmoil that the arab people now suffer?

Much of the hardship? No.

Majority of terrorism & anger directed towards America has something (if not everything) to do with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. That is a fact.
 
Well we could analyze those facts. Israeli Persecution, Oppression, and Injustice towards the Palestinians vs Arab Persecution, Oppression, and Injustice directed at Palestinians.

Is there really any question?

Except that that the two are completely interconnected.

For example, any Israeli persecution, oppression and injustice by Israeli's to Palestinians today only exists because of the other Arab states and their handling of Palestinians after the creation of Israel.

Now you can go back and forth on whether the creation of Israel, as it happened, was a good idea - I personally believe it was, but I can understand the other position. I can understand how it rubbed Arabs and Palestinians the other way. That does not repudiate the actions of their Arab neighbors.
 
Much of the hardship? No.

Majority of terrorism & anger directed towards America has something (if not everything) to do with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. That is a fact.

No, the terrorism and anger goes beyond simply Palestine and Israel. It goes to Iran, it goes to military bases everywhere, it goes to culture and it goes to false propaganda.
 
Except that that the two are completely interconnected.

For example, any Israeli persecution, oppression and injustice by Israeli's to Palestinians today only exists because of the other Arab states and their handling of Palestinians after the creation of Israel.

I think I could find many instances where the Israelis cause injustice and oppression that had pretty much nothing to do with their Arab neighbors. For instance beating up a Palestinian husband and father to a pulp infront of his family just to pass time, then beating up his wife for trying to help him up. How about bulldozing someone's store because you didn't want to turn your bulldozer around?

Now you can go back and forth on whether the creation of Israel, as it happened, was a good idea - I personally believe it was, but I can understand the other position. I can understand how it rubbed Arabs and Palestinians the other way. That does not repudiate the actions of their Arab neighbors.

I get rubbed the wrong way when my fries are soggy or my steak is over-cooked.

I don't think you would only be rubbed the wrong way if everyone in your family had their homes demolished to make way for a settlement of European immigrants. I highly doubt you would just be rubbed the wrong way if your kid and dog were shot and killed by a settler who gets released from prison 2 1/2 years later.

As for Jordan, which holds 3,000,000 Palestinian refugees, that's as much as half of their own population. 2 Million of those refugees were granted citizenship and they currently hold over 300K of refugees who live in camps. I'd like to see if our government would be rubbed the wrong way if 150 Million Mexicans cross the border right now and ask for full citizenship. :hehe:
 
Russia warns against crippling Iran sanctions

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia will not support crippling sanctions against Iran, including any that may be slapped on the Islamic Republic’s banking or energy sectors, a senior Russian diplomat said on Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61N3AU20100224


--
Russia backs its geo-strategic ally.
 
Iran Getting Nuclear Materials from Chinese Company

http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2010/02/28/r_3zsj1jbysw6rexomeuky3q/

TAIPEI, Taiwan – Last year, a Chinese company placed an order with a Taiwanese agent for 108 nuclear-related pressure gauges. But something happened along the way. Paperwork was backdated. Plans were rerouted, orders reconfigured, shipping redirected.

And the gauges ended up in a very different place: Iran.

The story behind the gauges shows how Iran is finding its way around international sanctions meant to prevent it from getting equipment that can be used to make a nuclear bomb. At least half a dozen times in recent years, the Persian Gulf nation has tried to use third countries as transshipment points for obtaining controlled, nuclear-related equipment.

In the case of the pressure gauges, it succeeded. In the process, the Swiss manufacturer and the Swiss government were duped, a Chinese company went around its own government’s prohibition on moving nuclear-related equipment to Iran, and Taiwanese authorities showed themselves unwilling or unable to get into step with the international community.

The deal was a huge victory for Tehran, which had been seeking the gauges for months, said nuclear proliferation expert David Albright, president of the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security. It also reflected the uneven enforcement of international sanctions against Iran, at a time when the U.S. and other Western countries are pushing hard to expand them.

“The [Iranian] government looked everywhere – Russia, Europe, the U.S., and they were being thwarted by the international community,” Albright said. “It’s really unfortunate they succeeded in using this Taiwan-China connection. ...This case is a wake up call of the importance of universal and timely application of sanctions on Iran.”

Iran says it wants to enrich uranium to generate nuclear power, but the West fears that it actually seeks weapons capabilities.

It’s impossible to verify how Iran is using the gauges, also known as pressure transducers or capacitance diaphragm gauges, which have numerous commercial applications in machines that employ pneumatic or hydraulic pressure. But experts say the large size of the order suggests very strongly that they are for centrifuges to churn out enriched uranium.

As of last November, Iran had 8,692 centrifuges, of which 3,936 were running, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Each centrifuge normally requires a transducer, though a single gauge can also serve up to 10 linked centrifuges.
 
Iran is turning into China's newest Sudan....

It pisses me off to no end, to the point of tears, that we have to bow to a ****ing country like China because they own 60% of our debt. We have gotten ourselves into a situation where we cannot do what needs to be done and that is to tell China to go and **** themselves, we are moving on with harsh sanctions without them.

They totally ****ed up the countries of Sudan, Uganda, CAR and DRC....simply because they get cheap oil out of it....

So what does the world do? We give them the 2008 Olympics. I'm sure Iran will have the Olympics in my lifetime.
 

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