Comics What SM 536 could have been

[HoratioRome]

The question has come up recently about how exciting and well written the SM vs IM fight was like in SM #536.
Here is a sample of what it could have been.
Let me know what you think.

As SM and IM crash through the wall SM squeezes out of IM’s arms, does a summersault over IM and uses his feet to continue IM’s momentum, slamming him into a wall.
However, IM recovers instantly. He flies through the wall, flips himself onto his back and fires a double blast of repulsor rays at SM.
It is a precise move. One perfected over many practice sessions at Avengers’ mansion.
It never misses, ,…except this time.
SM dodges the rays with a series of flips.
“impossible,..no it’s his spider-sense” thinks IM. “ I have to compensate for his Spider-sense”
Both combatants now face each other. Im looks at SM with a snese of dissapointment then shuts down the suit.
IM "This is over Peter"
Nothing happens.
SM " Now Tony, what kind of techy would I be If I didn't go over this suit with a fine tooth comb, and disabled any failsaifs. I'm rather hurt. You guys must really think badly of me."
Knowing that he will never be able to aim and tag SM on his own, IM devises a plan.

He keeps Peter busy while configuring the automatic firing system in his armor
IM-“peter, what do you think you’re doing”?
SM- “I think I’m coming to my senses shell head. What you’re doing here is worst than the lamest Super-villain plot”
IM-“ what? you mean obeying the law, Following the rules, Understanding that this is for the best? That it’s bigger than us?”
Target aquired, firing system set, systems locked. IM raises both his hands towards SM.
SM-“no Tony, locking people up. Innocent people who just wanted to help others. To make a difference. Heroes Tony, Heroes. I get it that we should uphold the law, but you’re taking this too far. You’re behaving as badly as the worst villain. You know as well as I that there are times when the law is wrong, and that the citizens, the true patriots must fight against such laws. We’d still be living in the dark ages if this wasn’t true. We have to stand first and foremost for what is right. Not what the law says.”
IM-“that’s enough SM. Stand down, or I’ll take you down. You have no chance”
SM-“says you”
We get a close of IM’s face (his eyes) as he whispers “Fire” to himself.
His repulsor rays blast at SM at blinding speed.
His left arm targets SM while his right arm fires random shots designed to confuse SM’s Spider-sense.
Tony trusts his technology, he always has. He knows that it’s only a matter of time before SM goes down.
But, SM bobs and weaves, and flips past his every shot. He moves at a speed almost too fast for the eyes to follow.
SM pushes his speed and agility to their fullest.
This becomes a contest of technology vs natural power.
SM : I can’t keep this up too long”
As SM avoids IM’s attack he shoots a strand of web at IM’s hands. Tony made a mistake, he relied so much on his technology, trusted it so much, that he took no defensive measures.
SM webs his arm and pulls IM forward.
IM loses his balance, and in the blink of an eye SM is upon him and Slams him with a powerful punch to the head (splash page)
IM slams against the wall, and SM is once again on top of him.
There is a momentary shock or perhaps a bit of surprise which freezes Tony for an instant.
His technology failed.
If his targeting system couldn’t tag SM how will he be able to? “Wow, I forget how strong SM is” thinks tony. ALL these thoughts race through his head, but just as quickly fade, as he once again regains his composure.
But that Split instant is more than enough time for SM.
IM’swings SM ducks underneath it and tags him with a right cross, then a left hook.

In the meantime, Shield is deploying throughout the building. Helicopters and hovercrafts are racing towards the building. Soldiers are quickly ascending the stairs to SM’s location.
Another swing and miss from IM, and another series of punches from SM.
IM “you’re wasting your time Peter. You can’t beat me. You can’t win this”
SM “Oh yeah, looks like I’m doing pretty good from my POV”
At that moment his Spider-sense goes off and he quickly jumps out of the way of the Shield bullets.
“NO!” screams IM. We will never know if he screamed because he didn’t want Peter to get hurt, or because he wanted to hurt Peter himself.
“Stand down, he’s mine. Block all the exits, Secure the building. Don’t let him escape”
SM had escaped through a door into another room.
IM followed, once again with the overconfident attitude of a father controlling his errant child. He does not really perceive SM as a threat.
But as he crosses the door into the other room, SM slams him with a double legged kick.
Splash page.
SM “escape? Run away? Uhh uhh Tony, I’m staying put. You’ve had this coming for a long time and I’m gonna give it to you”
.
Once again IM is sent reeling. SM webs his own knuckles for protection and attacks IM once again. IM swings at SM, but SM ducks underneath the blast and comes up with a vicious uppercut. Then he webs IM’s feet and swings him into the reinforced window glass.
IM takes a swing with his right arm while at the same time fires a repulsor blast from his left hand and fires the jet propulsions in his boots. SM avoids the punch and ray, but IM slams into him.
IM “got you now”
IM grabs SM by the throat and takes a punch at him.
SM gets hit but rolls with the punch enough to avoid being seriously hurt.
He is dazed as IM stands over him, this time not taking any chances. IM takes aim at SM for yet another blast, but SM leaps out of the way.
They now face each other, breathing heavy. The anger between them as thick as the smoke which whirls around the room.
IM “I’m taking you down SM”
SM “show me”
Once again IM fires, and once again SM dodges the blast while advancing towards IM .
SM lands Punch after punch while avoiding Tony’s punches and blast, (artist would be responsible for coming up with some cool moves)
Once again the punches take their toll as SM gives it everything he has.
IM finally begins to reel
Each new hit forces him to take a step back until his back hits the exterior glass of the building.

SM hitting IM is like a 10 year old hitting an adult. The question becomes how many punches can an adult take from a ten year old, before they start to feel it. Especiilay when the adult can’t hit the child back.
IM reels, and staggers back. as each punch slams his head into the reinforced glass.
“He’s going down” screams a shield agent.

“fire!”

The blasts shatter the battered window and SM jumps through it. But right before he does, he says “I’ll be back IM. This isn’t over”
SM leaps to the outside but finds himself surrounded by shield agents who immediately open fire.
SM twists his body to avoid the blasts. Webs up one shield craft, while swinging to another.

He lands on it and quickly knocks out an agent.

“They can’t fire on me with the other agent so close” he thinks to himself.

The chase is on, SM weaves his craft between the buildings. Shield moves to intercept him. but when next they see his craft it is empty. SM is gone and the shield agent with him is webbed to a wall.

We see IM standing by the window smoke billowing all around him.

SM escapes into the sewers where he runs into a cornered Punisher. He rescues the Punisher by quickly discarding the Jester and willow the wisp.

Then Carries Punisher to the anti reg’s HQ.

The end.

 

[diespinne]

Very nice! I would have changed some of the dialog and had Ironman try a few other things with his suit, though. Reminds me of an old-school, action-packed issue of Spidey... did you write that?

 

[HoratioRome]

thanks, yes I did

 

[diespinne]

Cool... you could pitch it as the next What If...?:

What If... Spidey Was Still Competent?

 

[HoratioRome]

Cool... you could pitch it as the next What If...?:

What If... Spidey Was Still Competent?

t: t: t: that was funny

 

[MaxCarnage]

Here's the scenario that I imagined:

IM: Stand down, Pete. You can't win.

S-M: Care to test that theory?

IM: Look at what you're wearing, Peter. You're in my world. You belong to me. You've belonged to me since the day you took that suit, even if you didn't know it.

(S-M looks down at costume)

IM: I have taken innumerable steps to ensure that I stay in control of my world. (He opens a control panel on his arm) Do you really think that I wouldn't make sure that I could control you as well?

(IM pushes a button, and S-M instantly falls to his knees)

IM: There's still a chance that we can put this all behind us, Pete. You did the right thing. You registered. This little tiff between you and me can stay that way. I just need your word that you are going to stay loyal.

S-M: You know, Tony, this speech sounds familiar. I think that Norman Osborne gave it to me once.

IM: This isn't helping you.

S-M: No, actually, the similarities are really starting to show. Both wealthy beyond most other people's dreams. Both dressing up in costumes and flying around the city. Both obsessed with control. With power.

IM: I'm warning you...

S-M: No, wait, this is the best part. You're both also so incredibly cocky that you THINK that you're always in control, even when the evidence is to the contrary.

IM: What...?

(Suddenly, S-M stands, facing IM eye-to-eye)

S-M: Did you honestly think that I wouldn't figure out your little "failsafe"?

(IM poises to strike, surprised and angered at this turn of events. But S-M doesn't respond in kind)

S-M: Wait, don't miss the best part!

(S-M pulls out a small remote of his own, and presses the button. Suddenly, it is IM who grows stiff, and he collapses under the weight of his suddenly powerless suit. S-M moves to kneel over him)

S-M: A little reverse-engineering I've been working on, you know, to pass the time.

(He leans in closer to ensure that IM is listening)

S-M: I want you to remember this, Tony. I beat you, and I did it without throwing a punch. You're a prisoner, now literally as well as figuratively, of your own near-sightedness. I refuse to be your cellmate anymore.

(With that, S-M tosses the remote at IM's motionless figure, and heads for the nearest window. IM is left behind, humiliated and defeated, without a word.)

 

[HoratioRome]

Here's the scenario that I imagined:

I really like your version as well. Though I do prefer the conflict to be resolved through a fight rather than with brains (it is a comic book afterall).

I'd love to combine your dialogue with my action.
I focused more on the action because that was what motivated this thread. Whether or not the action in #536 was sufficient.

In either case yours is way better than what they came up with

 

[GrtRsponsibilty]

:

Ha that is very good, I love Spidey

 

[MaxCarnage]

I really like your version as well. Though I do prefer the conflict to be resolved through a fight rather than with brains (it is a comic book afterall).

I'd love to combine your dialogue with my action.
I focused more on the action because that was what motivated this thread. Whether or not the action in #536 was sufficient.

In either case yours is way better than what they came up with

I didn't mean to start a competition. Your version was excellent, the action vivid. My preference when it comes to Spider-Man has always been "brain over brawn"; one of the things that made Spidey so unique was his uncanny ability to outwit rather than overpower his opponents. I proposed this as my preferred resolution to their relationship a long time ago, and your thread seemed an opportunity to share my preference.

Thank you for the compliments. Either way, we clearly stand head-and-shoulders above the current writers.

 

[diespinne]

Both of these scenarios are very cool and destroy JMS/Millar/Quesada's treatment!

 

[YourBrokenAmp]

The question has come up recently about how exciting and well written the SM vs IM fight was like in SM #536.
Here is a sample of what it could have been.
Let me know what you think.

jms has nothing on you

 

[chiefchirpa]

Here's the scenario that I imagined:

Nice, but I think there's little known evidence that Spidey can outwit Iron Man in terms of electro-mechanical failsafe know-how other than the fact that Tony keeps his Extremis suit secret by himself. If Spidey is known to be an engineering wiz or a master hacker than what he is right now, mr. jack of all trades but master of none scientist, then your scenario will be more plausible.

 

[chiefchirpa]

The question has come up recently about how exciting and well written the SM vs IM fight was like in SM #536.
Here is a sample of what it could have been.
Let me know what you think.

I like it. Anyone wonder why IM doesn't have a proximity energy shield all over his armor that can electrocute someone who tries to punch him or touch his suit? Tht would make anyone thinks twice before getting close to IM.

 

[MaxCarnage]

Nice, but I think there's little known evidence that Spidey can outwit Iron Man in terms of electro-mechanical failsafe know-how other than the fact that Tony keeps his Extremis suit secret by himself. If Spidey is known to be an engineering wiz or a master hacker than what he is right now, mr. jack of all trades but master of none scientist, then your scenario will be more plausible.

Peter has pretty consistently been shown to be able to figure out just about anything scientifically when he puts his mind to it. He has engineered incredible gadgets like his webshooters and spider tracers (which he even managed to engineer to work with his spider-sense, which is a pretty damn impressive feat of bio-electrical engineering). So I think that it's pretty in-character for him to have been able to reverse-engineer the failsafe in his suit. I mean, in the actual comic, he did re-engineer it so that it wouldn't respond to Tony's instructions to activate. Just finding and recognizing such a device would take at least some more-than-basic engineering knowledge.

 

[Fathermithras]

Meh...
Hate to break the back-patting, but come on folks. This is like a nerdy spider-fanboy wetdream. The character wouldn't react like this, and there's no way Spidey could (like the second scenario suggests) reverse engineer something Tony Stark created unless Stark was high when he made it. Stark is ten times the genius Pete is, even though Pete is very very smart. I love Spidey, but in terms of fighting ability and power, Spidey would lose. He's not as experienced, not as strong, not as good a fighter. The issue displayed a good view of what Spidey could do taking IM on with his wits in a moment of IM's hesitation.

I have a feeling I'm gonna be flamed now. But I'm not surprised by that really. I can't recall a time in the last ten years any comic fans have as a majority been pleased with comics. I agree with most of you guys that the last few years in Marvel have been ****e. But I think Civil war as a whole has been pretty damn Good. Spidey is portrayed realistically, and is incredibly heroic in turning his back on IM's side. It's easy to see why a hero would join either side, and Spider-man showed that very well. But all I see on here is comments that seem to appear out of a desire to whine about ANYTHING and everything in the comic. "Spidey can't break reinforced glass? LOL" Uh...he wasn't runnign up to it and super-spidey punching it. He was trying to leap through normal glass, thus a no no. The fact he managed to get shot up by shield agents, fall off a building, beat IM and then run off was impressive, but that a wounded Spidey got beat in a surprise attack makes people whine. "But his spider sense would have warned him!" more ignoring the comics. Read in detail and you'll remember civil was has caused "white-noise" on his Spidey-sense so it's almost totally unreliable.

Gah, sorry for the tirade. But SM beating up IM in a legendary confrontation, to show who has bigger balls? Not a Spidey thing to do at all. That's LESS like Spidey than JMS has been writing him.

 

[pussywillow1972]

Meh...
Hate to break the back-patting, but come on folks. This is like a nerdy spider-fanboy wetdream. The character wouldn't react like this, and there's no way Spidey could (like the second scenario suggests) reverse engineer something Tony Stark created unless Stark was high when he made it. Stark is ten times the genius Pete is, even though Pete is very very smart. I love Spidey, but in terms of fighting ability and power, Spidey would lose. He's not as experienced, not as strong, not as good a fighter. The issue displayed a good view of what Spidey could do taking IM on with his wits in a moment of IM's hesitation.

I have a feeling I'm gonna be flamed now. But I'm not surprised by that really. I can't recall a time in the last ten years any comic fans have as a majority been pleased with comics. I agree with most of you guys that the last few years in Marvel have been ****e. But I think Civil war as a whole has been pretty damn Good. Spidey is portrayed realistically, and is incredibly heroic in turning his back on IM's side. It's easy to see why a hero would join either side, and Spider-man showed that very well. But all I see on here is comments that seem to appear out of a desire to whine about ANYTHING and everything in the comic. "Spidey can't break reinforced glass? LOL" Uh...he wasn't runnign up to it and super-spidey punching it. He was trying to leap through normal glass, thus a no no. The fact he managed to get shot up by shield agents, fall off a building, beat IM and then run off was impressive, but that a wounded Spidey got beat in a surprise attack makes people whine. "But his spider sense would have warned him!" more ignoring the comics. Read in detail and you'll remember civil was has caused "white-noise" on his Spidey-sense so it's almost totally unreliable.

Gah, sorry for the tirade. But SM beating up IM in a legendary confrontation, to show who has bigger balls? Not a Spidey thing to do at all. That's LESS like Spidey than JMS has been writing him.

 

[diespinne]

Well, this is a fan forum, so I don't see the harm in exploring other scenarios like the two above. I'm actually fine with the way things played-out in the comic... BUT, it's not just about this Spidey vs. Ironman confrontation. The contrivance of Spider-man being the joe-schmuck fall guy in this storyline has ruffled a lot of feathers. Maybe those scenarios presented above are not the way things would play out 'realistically' in your opinion, but in my opinion, 'realistically' Peter Parker would never have revealed his identity to the world... pro-registration or not-- not after what he's been through.

 

[diespinne]

Oh... and here's another scenario straight outta the House of Ideas back when Spidey wasn't mystically-enhanced Iron Spidey... :

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

In that issue is Spidey wearing the Symbiote or the cloth version of the black suit... God that looked sweet...

 

[diespinne]

He's wearing the cloth costume judging by the way he spins webs earlier in the issue. Funny too how most of the dialog in this sequence could be applied to current events.

 

[pussywillow1972]

Oh... and here's another scenario straight outta the House of Ideas back when Spidey wasn't mystically-enhanced Iron Spidey... :

That was Arno Stark, Iron Man 2020, not Tony in the armor. Arno was unskilled in using the armor and had nowhere near the experience in combat as Tony does. He couldn't come close to matching Spidey in a fight. That was a great issue though.

 

[HoratioRome]

for the record, everything in my depiction is "realistic". I would never take the approach of making SM do things I know he couldn't, just because I'm a fan.
so fact are:
1)SM especially with his Spider-sense is fast enough to avoid IM. (both punches and repulsor shots)
2) SM is strong enough to do damage to IM. This has been established in the past and is in fact established in issue #536. In fact my version takes a more modest apporach as it takes SM multiple punches rather than a single one to finally damage IM
3) SM is skilled enough as a fighter to do what he did. I gave Tony credit as a fighter as well by having him adjust to SM's tactics and making him hurt SM.
4)I stayed within the tactics, skills, and fighting styles of both characters. I did not make IM less capable nor did I make SM more capable. For thos who do not know or understand that SM is in fact capable of fighting like this I have many many books I can refer you,..(the above included)

Finally though it was Arno Start SM fought, it was in fact a more sophisticated version of the IM armor, and the point was that SM is capable of damaging an Iron man

 

[arachnid-guy]

Meh...
Hate to break the back-patting, but come on folks. This is like a nerdy spider-fanboy wetdream. The character wouldn't react like this, and there's no way Spidey could (like the second scenario suggests) reverse engineer something Tony Stark created unless Stark was high when he made it. Stark is ten times the genius Pete is, even though Pete is very very smart. I love Spidey, but in terms of fighting ability and power, Spidey would lose. He's not as experienced, not as strong, not as good a fighter. The issue displayed a good view of what Spidey could do taking IM on with his wits in a moment of IM's hesitation.

I have a feeling I'm gonna be flamed now. But I'm not surprised by that really. I can't recall a time in the last ten years any comic fans have as a majority been pleased with comics. I agree with most of you guys that the last few years in Marvel have been ****e. But I think Civil war as a whole has been pretty damn Good. Spidey is portrayed realistically, and is incredibly heroic in turning his back on IM's side. It's easy to see why a hero would join either side, and Spider-man showed that very well. But all I see on here is comments that seem to appear out of a desire to whine about ANYTHING and everything in the comic. "Spidey can't break reinforced glass? LOL" Uh...he wasn't runnign up to it and super-spidey punching it. He was trying to leap through normal glass, thus a no no. The fact he managed to get shot up by shield agents, fall off a building, beat IM and then run off was impressive, but that a wounded Spidey got beat in a surprise attack makes people whine. "But his spider sense would have warned him!" more ignoring the comics. Read in detail and you'll remember civil was has caused "white-noise" on his Spidey-sense so it's almost totally unreliable.

Gah, sorry for the tirade. But SM beating up IM in a legendary confrontation, to show who has bigger balls? Not a Spidey thing to do at all. That's LESS like Spidey than JMS has been writing him.

 

[diespinne]

That was Arno Stark, Iron Man 2020, not Tony in the armor. Arno was unskilled in using the armor and had nowhere near the experience in combat as Tony does. He couldn't come close to matching Spidey in a fight. That was a great issue though.

Hehe... but Arno was fighting a less experienced, younger, PRE-Spider-Totem-Iron-Spider-Power-Up-Spidey. It's just nice to see a real slobber-knocker that lasts longer than a page or two. That's what I dug about HoratioRome's treatment--geek-tastic ACTION. For all the ballyhoo about superheroes fighting superheroes in this Civil War event, I have yet to see one good knock-down, drag-out brawl.

 

[MaxCarnage]

Meh...
Hate to break the back-patting, but come on folks. This is like a nerdy spider-fanboy wetdream. The character wouldn't react like this, and there's no way Spidey could (like the second scenario suggests) reverse engineer something Tony Stark created unless Stark was high when he made it. Stark is ten times the genius Pete is, even though Pete is very very smart.

Far from back-patting, you're being downright insulting. But that's fine, my "nerdy spider-fanboy wetdream" was a two-minute write-up that I thought I would share along with Horatio's scenario.

I find it interesting that you're wholly willing to accept that Peter could find and disable this failsafe in his suit, but it then becomes completely implausible that he could find a way to turn it on Stark. If Stark is indeed "ten times the genius Pete is", then how did he find and/or disable the failsafe in the first place?

I think you're being unfairly and unnecessarily critical. If you don't like either of these write-ups then more power to you. But to come in with both guns firing is a little bit out of proportion to the original posts.