BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS)

[Jordanstine]

SPOILERS abound so beware!

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Any suggestions and what improvements could've been made for those who've seen the movie?

Please take this thread as "constructive criticism" and not as another thread to bash the movie (coz we all know the sensitivity level here can get out of hand, literally). Some thoughts:

1) Death of Superman

Probably the biggest issue I had was when they shoehorned the Death of Superman in the last 10 mins of the film. The execution was poorly done. They tried the Lois/Clark love angle but there was just not a strong enough emotional attachment to it at least for me and my friends. Felt like I nor any of my friends believed Superman was going to die, I mean this was only Cavill's 2nd movie, and of course they did a fake out in the end with his casket moving. I felt they really ruined a perfectly good storyline that could've been it's own standalone Man of Steel 2 or 3 movie.


2) Finch and Wallace

Another storyline cut too short was the Senator Finch and Wallace Keefe story. They build up the first hour to be about people's fear of Superman, giving Finch and Keefe a lot of screen time to build up to the Superman hearing. Then when the court room explosion happened, except for a brief Nancy Grace cameo, it was like the movie had almost forgotten about it. That scene was the scene that gave me goose bumps but felt wasted with the aftermath. It just seemed like it was forgotten. People's fear against Superman was no longer being talked about because he now had to fight Batman and Doomsday. This story also could've been made into another standalone movie and executed much better.


3) Dawn of Justice

This movie felt more like "Dawn of Justice" than it did "Batman V Superman". Their fight was shorter than I had thought. It felt more just like a setup to Justice League with all the dream sequences, the cameos of the 3 heroes, all of which weirdly placed in the movie and broke up some of the flow. Cyborg's cameo was too long and basically showed his whole origin story. Would've been perfect if they had used this as an after credits scene instead.


4) Man of Steel

One of the silliest moments in the film was when the kept reminding us, the audience, at least twice that innocents were being killed whenever a big action sequence took place. There was a line in the movie about people not being inside those blown up office buildings because "they had gone home for the day". And then another line when Doomsday crashed and exploded, that where he landed was "uninhabited" so all those buildings being destroyed were empty. It just made the movie a little silly. I was half joking that the actors who said those lines was just gong to look into the camera and give us a wink or something. The director or story writer had so much fear about the critics of Man of Steel that they had to do this.

Others?

 

[DaNaNaNaNaNaNa]

Your last point is super apt, and basically undermines Snyder's repeated defense of Man of Steel - that there was so much collateral damage for the sake of realism. Now we have the opposite, in an attempt to pander to angry fanboys - no collateral damage, but absurd, crushing convenience.

In my opinion, Snyder and co took away the wrong message from the reaction to Man of Steel. It wasn't the presence of death and destruction - as Snyder himself mentioned, many more people (or aliens, I guess?) die in Star Wars. The issue is how those deaths are dealt with - in Man of Steel, they're basically there to up the "cool factor." They have no impact on Superman or anyone else for that matter.

 

[Poni_Boy]

SPOILERS abound so beware!

***************************************

Any suggestions and what improvements could've been made for those who've seen the movie?

Please take this thread as "constructive criticism" and not as another thread to bash the movie (coz we all know the sensitivity level here can get out of hand, literally). Some thoughts:

1) Death of Superman

Probably the biggest issue I had was when they shoehorned the Death of Superman in the last 10 mins of the film. The execution was poorly done. They tried the Lois/Clark love angle but there was just not a strong enough emotional attachment to it at least for me and my friends. Felt like I nor any of my friends believed Superman was going to die, I mean this was only Cavill's 2nd movie, and of course they did a fake out in the end with his casket moving. I felt they really ruined a perfectly good storyline that could've been it's own standalone Man of Steel 2 or 3 movie.


2) Finch and Wallace

Another storyline cut too short was the Senator Finch and Wallace Keefe story. They build up the first hour to be about people's fear of Superman, giving Finch and Keefe a lot of screen time to build up to the Superman hearing. Then when the court room explosion happened, except for a brief Nancy Grace cameo, it was like the movie had almost forgotten about it. That scene was the scene that gave me goose bumps but felt wasted with the aftermath. It just seemed like it was forgotten. People's fear against Superman was no longer being talked about because he now had to fight Batman and Doomsday. This story also could've been made into another standalone movie and executed much better.


3) Dawn of Justice

This movie felt more like "Dawn of Justice" than it did "Batman V Superman". Their fight was shorter than I had thought. It felt more just like a setup to Justice League with all the dream sequences, the cameos of the 3 heroes, all of which weirdly placed in the movie and broke up some of the flow. Cyborg's cameo was too long and basically showed his whole origin story. Would've been perfect if they had used this as an after credits scene instead.


4) Man of Steel

One of the silliest moments in the film was when the kept reminding us, the audience, at least twice that innocents were being killed whenever a big action sequence took place. There was a line in the movie about people not being inside those blown up office buildings because "they had gone home for the day". And then another line when Doomsday crashed and exploded, that where he landed was "uninhabited" so all those buildings being destroyed were empty. It just made the movie a little silly. I was half joking that the actors who said those lines was just gong to look into the camera and give us a wink or something. The director or story writer had so much fear about the critics of Man of Steel that they had to do this.

Others?

Agree with all of this. Would also add Batman's characterization and the forced humor/one-liners.

 

[The_Shadow]

My only major complaint is they showed way too much in the trailers.

If they withheld the Trinity Shot, "haha jokes on you Batman" suit, Lex Bruce Clark conversation, and the Knightmare scene; I would've been blown away by this movie.


-

I disagree with point #4. Although they probably did mention that the area was abandoned one too many times, but that didn't bother me.

#3, it really didn't take up to much time. There was one dream sequence, the Flash moment, and then three 30 second shots of the cameos. And it is called Dawn of Justice.

 

[batman1115]

I am so saddened by it. It's such a long movie for a title fight that lasted less than 10 minutes. The acting was terrible. Effects were awful (and most in Snyder's movies are). Affleck didnt bring anything new to the table. So little of batcave, alfred mentoring moments, gadgets, etc. and bland superman. nothing felt like you were cheering anyone on.

 

[samsnee]

Agree with all of this. Would also add Batman's characterization and the forced humor/one-liners.

Did the forced humor feel like it was shoe-horned in as a defense to all the critics who say humor isn't allowed in the DCEU?

 

[batman1115]

oh and the non existent wonder woman thrown in served no purpose. and what is with all the identities known in this world. takes the fun out of it. I mean Lex knows all the identities now? come on.

 

[Defacto]

I agree with the op about everything. There was also lots of little silly things. Firstly, nobody had the sense to leave the Wayne Tower untill "The Boss" calls and tells them to get out? What? And Bruce couldn't call before he landed? What was that ****?

Second, why did Aquaman bother destroying the camera thingy? Why be aggressive a little bit and then just take off? Was that suppose to be cool?

And that "reveal" Batman had that Wonder Woman's been since WW I at least. With the music they made out like it's a huge thing that Batman realizes. It felt pretty flat because all that was already spoiled by trailers and basic knowledge. The music was epic but the moment itself was not.

 

[Defacto]

oh and the non existent wonder woman thrown in served no purpose. and what is with all the identities known in this world. takes the fun out of it. I mean Lex knows all the identities now? come on.

Not to mention that the freaking Batman learns all this stuff only by stealing it from Lex Luthor.

 

[Defacto]

Oh one more thing! So as feared previously in this forum, Superman, that dick, just left oll that Kryptonian **** laying around. He even left General Zod's body to be found. Just couldn't throw it in the sun or space or whatever. Such ********. Basically Superman can blame all this on himself.

 

[Rain in Gotham]

Zack Snyder

 

[writer0327]

Knightmare/Flashbacks/Dreams/Visions....way too many of these.

Just tell the story.

 

[writer0327]

oh and the non existent wonder woman thrown in served no purpose. and what is with all the identities known in this world. takes the fun out of it. I mean Lex knows all the identities now? come on.

Yes, didn't like that Lex figures out who all the superheroes are. He has dossiers on Flash, Cyborg, WW and Aquaman. Kind of makes any secret identities pointless. I guess then there is no real reason to have Clark Kent around anymore, so he might as well die.

The film ends on a sour, sad note as well. I felt depressed leaving the theater.

 

[SpideyZERO]

What went wrong?

1. Pacing over the place. Dull 1st hour. It's just random events being forced together

2. Lex Luthor. What is he trying to accomplish? Other than some throw away line about abusive father, he is evil for the sake of being evil

3. Superman. Somehow everyone and the universe hates him. Nothing went right for him. My girlfriend was thinking "Poor Superman "the whole movie

4. Batman. Batman is f**king insane. I get what they are going for. An angry Batman full of rage after years of failure. But the execution was just bad. (At least some of the action was great)

5. Speaking of the action. I was like "Am I watching a Michael Bay movie"? Everything explodes. Batmobile hit a car? Boom explosion. Doomsday roared? Explosion. The action were so excessively violent and I was wondering if it was necessary. Every car crashes, every time Batman using guns/missiles, they need to show clearly that people were still in these vehicles and exploded together with them. Don't get me started with the flamethrower guy. Batman shot him on his flamethrower. Normally the guy probably would have gone up in flame but no, somehow the entire f**king floor exploded and probably killed all the bad guys that Batman just knocked out.

6. All needless cram in of iconic Dark Knight Returns scene. I will leave out the BvS fights, but there are tons of straight lift from TDKR, from the "I believe you" line, Batman grabbing a bad guy through wall and Superman nuked and being skeletal. It wasn't bad, but incredibly jarring, but probably that's just me

7. The tie-ins to DCEU were badly forced in. The videos were still ok, but Lex Luthor going "Ding dong ding dong" was so random and pointless. Knightmare scene was badly forced in

8. The titular Batman VS Superman fight. The motives behind the fight made no sense. There was no real reason for Batman to take on Superman (the whole building explosion was a really weak excuse), Superman was uncharacteristically mean at Batman the first time they met. Superman also failed to scream out "Luthor has my mother and I need your help!!!" and ended the fight right there. The fight was so one sided that it wasn't even funny

So many things to get right and they get most of them wrong. The creative team being this movie needs to be replaced if WB wants Justice League to stand a chance.

....Ok the bgm was nice

 

[jmc]

I think the biggest issue is simply Batman's motivation against Superman. The world's greatest detective doing homework on everyone else other than Superman. And all it takes for him to suddenly call off his crusade is for them to both have mothers named Martha. I mean, seriously? That's it? C'mon.

 

[writer0327]

Supes being upset over the "Bat Vigilante" was sorta forced. It was like they had to give him a reason to hate Batman. But he seemed to get over that with no real explanation as to why, other than his mother was in trouble and he realizes Lex was using them.

 

[jmc]

What's worse is there was no difference between the two characters. Superman and Batman are suppose to be different but they both come across as exactly the same type of person in this. No contrast at all.

 

[SpideyZERO]

Supes being upset over the "Bat Vigilante" was sorta forced. It was like they had to give him a reason to hate Batman. But he seemed to get over that with no real explanation as to why, other than his mother was in trouble and he realizes Lex was using them.

The whole sequence made no sense. I can understand if he was angry. But Superman literally showed up when Batman was chasing BAD GUYS, got into his way, screwed up his car, threaten him and did nothing to apprehend the bad guys.

 

[hafizbat]

Supes being upset over the "Bat Vigilante" was sorta forced. It was like they had to give him a reason to hate Batman. But he seemed to get over that with no real explanation as to why, other than his mother was in trouble and he realizes Lex was using them.

Pretty much everything in the movie felt forced tbh.

A couple details off the top of my head.

-Batman going after the Kryptonite was not exciting. You'd think a Batmobile chase scene would be awesome, but as with most of the movie, it's just beat over the top of your head with BOOMS and BAMs. All he does is smash whatever he can and shoot whatever he can, with the dreadful score pounding overhead.

-The nuke was so laughably shoehorned in. Try to make it not so damn obvious you want to pay homage to TDKR, Snyder. There's just no emotion at all.

-The Doomsday fight was even worse than the MOS fight. My brain was numb from sensory overload at that point. And for all the effort to make things epic, the action in this movie was surprisingly dull and unoriginal.

 

[jmc]

I also feel Doomsday was wasted on this particular story.

 

[SpideyZERO]

I also feel Doomsday was wasted on this particular story.

What was Luthor trying to accomplish with Doomsday anyway? just to kill Superman? He couldn't even get the thing under control

 

[Jumpman]

I think the biggest issue is simply Batman's motivation against Superman. The world's greatest detective doing homework on everyone else other than Superman. And all it takes for him to suddenly call off his crusade is for them to both have mothers named Martha. I mean, seriously? That's it? C'mon.

Doing homework on everyone else? He wasn't.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

I think Zack Snyder Said in an interview somewhere that he feels he feels that Kal isn't Superman yet. He wanted Kal to finally step into the proper Superman role by JL 1.

I feel like this was a bad call. Kal hasn't fully committed himself to being Supermanin this movie, he's still really conflicted and unsure. in MOS its understandable but here it feels unnecessary.

 

[Drz]

The Dawn of Justice marketing was too forced.

 

[Jumpman]

I think Zack Snyder Said in an interview somewhere that he feels he feels that Kal isn't Superman yet. He wanted Kal to finally step into the proper Superman role by JL 1.

I feel like this was a bad call. Kal hasn't fully committed himself to being Supermanin this movie, he's still really conflicted and unsure. in MOS its understandable but here it feels unnecessary.

I don't think he's unsure when the big moment in the climax arrives considering what he told Lois in that moment.

Just a thought.