Why is the Red Skull considered Cap's archnemesis?

[yenaled]

Zemo is a fun name to say.

His name is also far to stupid to be anyones arch nemesis.

 

[Cyclops]

Not to mention he wears far too much pink.

("Vhat's wrong vith pink?")

 

[The Overlord]

Also, The Red Skull has made a massive impact. He infiltraited the United States government at it's highest levels and initiated a terrorist atack from within that killed thousands. Was it personal? No. But I'm certain that Cap felt responsible for every body on the pile.

That's because the Marvel US government is hopelessly incompentent.

Seriously the Red Skull needs a step up though, he can be a real bone head sometimes. One time he tried to take over the Kingpin's empire and he was fighting Fisk one on one. The Skull has winning, because he was faster, so he could strike and dodge before Fisk could hit him. But then the Skull became arrogant and decided to finish things by standing his ground and Kingpin proceeded to crush him.

Then there were all the times he gained cosmic power only for Cap to snatch it away. You think he would have learned his lesson and killed Cap right away, but he never does. His training sessions are designed more to pump his own ego rather than give him a real work out.

Then there was the time the Skull joined the Acts of Vengeance Team. This was a group that had a Gypsy, a Jew and a Chinese guy as members. All three of those guys were powerful enough to kill the Skull with a thought and he makes racial slurs at them. He's lucky Magneto decided to enact an ironic punishment or he would be dead now. The Skull can be really stupid sometimes, he really needs to work that.

 

[CBK]

Well said overlord. He hasn't done anything to anyone besides the us government. I would say the serpernt squad is more successfull then the skull.

 

[Cyclops]

Killing thousands of innocent people is now equatable to not doing anything to anyone besides the US government? Ummm.........

 

[ShadowBoxing]

DING! And considering that Zemo is long dead anyway.

Well to be fair. Zemo lives on in Baron Helmut Zemo, who is essentially there to carry on the legacy. So technically Baron Zemo is not dead, just like Green Goblin wasn't dead when Harry took the reigns. Both are relatively the same character with relatively the same axe to grind.

However, Red Skull is still his archnemesis, I agree. The reason, just because. There is no real reason Red Skull IS Caps archnemesis, unlike Magneto or Doom, Red Skull was not really anything personally related to Cap. No real axe to grind. However you have to take things in context. Red Skull is the archnemesis because he was created in a time when heroes had ONE archnemesis and stories tended to be stand alones. Therefore villains were not given real hard reasons or backstories (like Magneto) for hating their heroes. Remember there was a time when Joker was just another serial murderer. However because he was such a recurring character, and writers used him a lot he became Batman's archnemesis. There eventually came a time when they wanted to explain WHY Joker hated and was obsessed so much with Batman, but back in the 40s that did not much matter. Cap fought Red Skull because Red Skull was a Nazi, there is your grand answer.

 

[The Overlord]

Killing thousands of innocent people is now equatable to not doing anything to anyone besides the US government? Ummm.........

Can I have some details on that?

 

[The Overlord]

Well to be fair. Zemo lives on in Baron Helmut Zemo, who is essentially there to carry on the legacy. So technically Baron Zemo is not dead, just like Green Goblin wasn't dead when Harry took the reigns. Both are relatively the same character with relatively the same axe to grind.

However, Red Skull is still his archnemesis, I agree. The reason, just because. There is no real reason Red Skull IS Caps archnemesis, unlike Magneto or Doom, Red Skull was not really anything personally related to Cap. No real axe to grind. However you have to take things in context. Red Skull is the archnemesis because he was created in a time when heroes had ONE archnemesis and stories tended to be stand alones. Therefore villains were not given real hard reasons or backstories (like Magneto) for hating their heroes. Remember there was a time when Joker was just another serial murderer. However because he was such a recurring character, and writers used him a lot he became Batman's archnemesis. There eventually came a time when they wanted to explain WHY Joker hated and was obsessed so much with Batman, but back in the 40s that did not much matter. Cap fought Red Skull because Red Skull was a Nazi, there is your grand answer.

Okay that kinda makes sense, still I think the Red Skull could use a step up, it isn't the 40s anymore, perhaps he can find a way hurt Cap personally. The Skull is evil enough to hurt Cap personally, but it seems he is never to do so, I mean he got him fired as Cap for a while, but that seems more like an incovience than anything else.

 

[Red Mask]

That's because the Marvel US government is hopelessly incompentent.

So is DC's. That's why every comic universe needs a Miracleman to teach them what's what. t:

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Okay that kinda makes sense, still I think the Red Skull could use a step up, it isn't the 40s anymore, perhaps he can find a way hurt Cap personally. The Skull is evil enough to hurt Cap personally, but it seems he is never to do so, I mean he got him fired as Cap for a while, but that seems more like an incovience than anything else.

You might have a point here. I own a good 100 or so Caps from the 80s to the 90s, and a lot from the 60s. The biggest thing Red Skull ever did to Cap was the attack(s) with the cosmic cube. Most notably the first one, I have the issue; just not on me at the time...but I remember it being good. Red Skull is somewhat now like a dime store Kingpin, throwing robots and villains at Captain America. But he lacks the finesse of Wilson Fisk or the grandeur of Dr. Doom. Zemo, however doesn't do much either.

You have to understand, Captain America has never been known for a great rogues gallery. Despite the interesting quirks of his various villains, I've always considered them sub par and sometimes highly uninteresting. Organizations like AIM, HYDRA, Masters of Evil, Serpent Society or the Resistants have always driven me to buy more Cap books than Red Skull or Zemo (although hands down Scourge of the Underworld was the best). So I think your complaint is across the board.

Some thought Cap should be made more about terrorism these days. Cap is a consistently bad peacetime hero, since the essence of his character is linked to war. And it's really hard to come up with Nazi threats after 66 years (and I believe the last Nazi has died).

So I don't know what to tell you. I think though that Captain America does need to return to these terrorist groups as mainstays, avoid these Nazi based characters.

 

[Mr. Green]

The Skull is Cap's archfoe because he is the Anti-Cap. Cap is an American supersoldier who has persisted since WWII to fight evil, while Red Skull is a Nazi supersoldier who has persisted since WWII to perpetrate evil.

He's Cap's archfoe because he is Cap's polar opposite.

Exactly! Like Hulk and Abomination. Or Wolverine and Sabretooth. Or Flash and that Yellow Flash.

As for the Zemos being dead, isn't Red Skull kind of Dead? For the most part anyway?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Exactly! Like Hulk and Abomination. Or Wolverine and Sabretooth. Or Flash and that Yellow Flash.

As for the Zemos being dead, isn't Red Skull kind of Dead? For the most part anyway?

Answer A) Which one ? B) Yes and C) a couple times over at this point.

 

[roach]

Some thought Cap should be made more about terrorism these days. Cap is a consistently bad peacetime hero, since the essence of his character is linked to war. And it's really hard to come up with Nazi threats after 66 years (and I believe the last Nazi has died).

So I don't know what to tell you. I think though that Captain America does need to return to these terrorist groups as mainstays, avoid these Nazi based characters.

Yes Steve Rogers should be the Marvel equivalent to Jack Bauer

 

[The Question]

That's because the Marvel US government is hopelessly incompentent.

No, it isn't. Red Skull's plan was pretty genius. He spend several years building up a seperate identity, Dell Rusk, as a well liked politician in the United States, until he could get a cabinet seat as the Secritairy if Defense. It's not incompitent to be outsmarted by a genius with an intricate, decades long plan. And it still doesn't change the fact that that is a massive impact on the world, especially Cap.

Seriously the Red Skull needs a step up though, he can be a real bone head sometimes. One time he tried to take over the Kingpin's empire and he was fighting Fisk one on one. The Skull has winning, because he was faster, so he could strike and dodge before Fisk could hit him. But then the Skull became arrogant and decided to finish things by standing his ground and Kingpin proceeded to crush him.

That was a pretty cool fight, I thought. Still, since the Skull has Cap's strength, he should have been able to lift Fisk over his head.

Then there were all the times he gained cosmic power only for Cap to snatch it away. You think he would have learned his lesson and killed Cap right away, but he never does. His training sessions are designed more to pump his own ego rather than give him a real work out.

Well, of course he didn't kill Cap. If he did, the series would be over. Still, those stories probably should have been handled a little better.

Then there was the time the Skull joined the Acts of Vengeance Team. This was a group that had a Gypsy, a Jew and a Chinese guy as members. All three of those guys were powerful enough to kill the Skull with a thought and he makes racial slurs at them. He's lucky Magneto decided to enact an ironic punishment or he would be dead now. The Skull can be really stupid sometimes, he really needs to work that.

I suppose, in that instance, you're right. But still, they all knew he was Hitler's #2 guy, so Magneto probably would have ended up doing that anyay.

 

[The Question]

You might have a point here. I own a good 100 or so Caps from the 80s to the 90s, and a lot from the 60s. The biggest thing Red Skull ever did to Cap was the attack(s) with the cosmic cube. Most notably the first one, I have the issue; just not on me at the time...but I remember it being good. Red Skull is somewhat now like a dime store Kingpin, throwing robots and villains at Captain America. But he lacks the finesse of Wilson Fisk or the grandeur of Dr. Doom. Zemo, however doesn't do much either.

You have to understand, Captain America has never been known for a great rogues gallery. Despite the interesting quirks of his various villains, I've always considered them sub par and sometimes highly uninteresting. Organizations like AIM, HYDRA, Masters of Evil, Serpent Society or the Resistants have always driven me to buy more Cap books than Red Skull or Zemo (although hands down Scourge of the Underworld was the best). So I think your complaint is across the board.

Some thought Cap should be made more about terrorism these days. Cap is a consistently bad peacetime hero, since the essence of his character is linked to war. And it's really hard to come up with Nazi threats after 66 years (and I believe the last Nazi has died).

So I don't know what to tell you. I think though that Captain America does need to return to these terrorist groups as mainstays, avoid these Nazi based characters.

To be fair, many of the nazis Cap fights are in fact neo-nazi terrorist groups (HYDRA and Axis Mundi, for example).

 

[roach]

No, it isn't. Red Skull's plan was pretty genius. He spend several years building up a seperate identity, Dell Rusk, as a well liked politician in the United States, until he could get a cabinet seat as the Secritairy if Defense. It's not incompitent to be outsmarted by a genius with an intricate, decades long plan. And it still doesn't change the fact that that is a massive impact on the world, especially Cap.

which all went out the window the moment he just twisted his villain name around into a separate identity...i mean seriously Dell Rusk.....maybe Osama Bin Laden is really Senator Amaden Obinlas

 

[Cyclops]

Are you saying that Barack Obama is really Osama?!?!

 

[roach]

Are you saying that Barack Obama is really Osama?!?!

I cracked the code...I cracked the[gets hit over head]

NO...OBAMA...IS...NOT...OSAMA....VOTE DEMOCRAT....MORE OVALTINE PLEASE...WHERE'S THE BEEF...THE POODLE IS THE BLACK MAN OF THE DOG WORLD

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Yes Steve Rogers should be the Marvel equivalent to Jack Bauer

With my limited exposure to 24, I agree. Jack Bauer, on steroids, with a shield.

 

[roach]

U need to watch more 24...best show on TV

and Zemo cant be Cap's archvillain...he shares the same mask as Mushmouf from Fat Albert

 

[CaptainCanada]

which all went out the window the moment he just twisted his villain name around into a separate identity...i mean seriously Dell Rusk.....maybe Osama Bin Laden is really Senator Amaden Obinlas

Well, "Dell Rusk" is a takeoff of Truman's Secretary of State, Dean Rusk.

 

[Darthphere]

Well to be fair. Zemo lives on in Baron Helmut Zemo, who is essentially there to carry on the legacy. So technically Baron Zemo is not dead, just like Green Goblin wasn't dead when Harry took the reigns. Both are relatively the same character with relatively the same axe to grind.

Thats just stupid.

 

[LadyMoira]

I suppose they give the honor to Red Skull because being an actual Nazi is much better than being the son of a Nazi like our current Baron Zemo but still, the Baron is a lot more interesting I always thought.

 

[The Overlord]

No, it isn't. Red Skull's plan was pretty genius. He spend several years building up a seperate identity, Dell Rusk, as a well liked politician in the United States, until he could get a cabinet seat as the Secritairy if Defense. It's not incompitent to be outsmarted by a genius with an intricate, decades long plan. And it still doesn't change the fact that that is a massive impact on the world, especially Cap.

Its still very silly. There was no way Red Skull could have create a fool proof fake ID, do you know how many security checks one would have to go through in order get a cabinet position like that? I think the CIA would wonder why this guy only has a real tracible history for the last decade or so. I think the US government was jobbing to the Red Skull, if his feat was only achievible through jobbing that's kinda sad. Besides what's going to affect someone more the deaths of thousands of strangers or death of one loved one? Carange has killed way more people than the Green Goblin, but who does Spider-Man hate more?

That was a pretty cool fight, I thought. Still, since the Skull has Cap's strength, he should have been able to lift Fisk over his head.

Kingpin has metahuman level strength, in a issue of Spider-Man where tore off part of a stair case to beat up Spider-Man. Kingpin is a freak, he may very well be stronger than cap, but not faster. The fact that the red Skull sacerficed his best advanatage near the end of the fight shows him to be an arrogant fool.

Well, of course he didn't kill Cap. If he did, the series would be over. Still, those stories probably should have been handled a little better.

Still it seems like every time the Skull gets cosmic power Captain America is able to trick him or take it away from him somehow. at least when Doom loses his cosmic powers its either because a great cosmic force takes the powers away or because he gets bored with with them and allows the heroes to take them away. The Skull constantly getting cosmic powers and then losing them to captain America makes him look like a fool who doesn't learn from his mistakes.

I suppose, in that instance, you're right. But still, they all knew he was Hitler's #2 guy, so Magneto probably would have ended up doing that anyay.

Still showing up in meeting with Mags and directing racial slurs at him, will make the Skull far easier to find then not meeting with mags and not directing racial slurs at him.

The Skull really a step up. He has potenial, but it hardly gets tapped proprely. Seriously using robots, super villains and convoluted plans to take over the US government make him seem like a very generic villain. The Red Skull is pure evil and I'm pretty sure he knows who Cap really is and the worst thing he can do to Cap is get him fired, that's weak. He should do something to hurt Cap on personal level, not a political one, a very simple, yet evil act to hurt Cap in a very personal level.

 

[The Overlord]

You might have a point here. I own a good 100 or so Caps from the 80s to the 90s, and a lot from the 60s. The biggest thing Red Skull ever did to Cap was the attack(s) with the cosmic cube. Most notably the first one, I have the issue; just not on me at the time...but I remember it being good. Red Skull is somewhat now like a dime store Kingpin, throwing robots and villains at Captain America. But he lacks the finesse of Wilson Fisk or the grandeur of Dr. Doom. Zemo, however doesn't do much either.

You have to understand, Captain America has never been known for a great rogues gallery. Despite the interesting quirks of his various villains, I've always considered them sub par and sometimes highly uninteresting. Organizations like AIM, HYDRA, Masters of Evil, Serpent Society or the Resistants have always driven me to buy more Cap books than Red Skull or Zemo (although hands down Scourge of the Underworld was the best). So I think your complaint is across the board.

Some thought Cap should be made more about terrorism these days. Cap is a consistently bad peacetime hero, since the essence of his character is linked to war. And it's really hard to come up with Nazi threats after 66 years (and I believe the last Nazi has died).

So I don't know what to tell you. I think though that Captain America does need to return to these terrorist groups as mainstays, avoid these Nazi based characters.

Still the Red Skull is Captain America's arch nemesis, but it seems like he was handed that title rather than earned it. The Red Skull is Cap's arch nemesis, he is pure evil and he knows who Cap is, yet the worst he has done to Cap is get him fired. That's weak. Instead of relying on robots and super villains and convoluted plans to take over the White House, why doesn't he just commit a simple, yet evil act that would hurt Cap on a personal level, instead of a political level.