Justice League will Justice League be like X-Men?

[KangConquers]

oops, it was early when I read that.

And I agree that Marvel comics was way more exciting in the 60s/early 70s. But I don't think that lasted. Even if they were more exciting, a large portion of the characters weren't very original at all, they were just a cool spin on things at a time when DC was boring as ****.

Some of your criticisms were quite accurate (for example, Tony taking from Bruce Wayne.) Some were far reaching (Claiming that Captain America ripped off Superman, or that Green Goblin ripped off Green Lantern and Arrow by having "Green" in his name.)

I'd say Spider-Man, X-Men, The Hulk, The Fantastic 4 were all quite original characters and concepts. The only major Marvel franchise that rips off DC is the Avengers, which of course, has the same core concept as Justice League.

I don't think Nova, a top 30 Marvel character if he's lucky, ripping off Green Lantern is cause for dismissing Marvel as a whole as a rip-off company.

 

[shauner111]

Sure. I agree with that. Except the "Green" part. That part is just obvious to me. DC were calling a couple of their characters that for years, you would think Marvel would be more original but they jumped on the "Green THIS , Green THAT" bandwagon. As much as I like that character (Osborn), and think his look in the comics stands alone, I still feel like Marvel said "We need him to be Lex Luthor by day, and be Spider-Man's Joker by night. How do we make the ultimate arch nemesis...we'll mix the two biggest villains there is into one character".

That's how I see it.

 

[KangConquers]

Sure. I agree with that. Except the "Green" part. That part is just obvious to me. DC were calling a couple of their characters that for years, you would think Marvel would be more original but they jumped on the "Green THIS , Green THAT" bandwagon. As much as I like that character (Osborn), and think his look in the comics stands alone, I still feel like Marvel said "We need him to be Lex Luthor by day, and be Spider-Man's Joker by night. How do we make the ultimate arch nemesis...we'll mix the two biggest villains there is into one character".

That's how I see it.

Green Hornet predated Lantern and Arrow, and was a great deal more popular than either.

 

[NosfeRomas]

Green Lantern actually borrows a lot from Edward Elmer Smith's Lensman series of science fiction books.

Most creations where rip offs or had drawn inspiration from something out of a pulp magazine. Comics in fact is a continuation or the evolution of the Pulp Magazine in many many ways.

Both companies' characters draw heavily either from Mythology or Classic Stories like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde or Pulp Magazines. Spiderman was basically a name then Stan Lee told that name to Steve Ditko and his genius made Spiderman.

Stan Lee was a really intelligent man, he kinda knew what people wanted, relatable characters. He attracted minorities with Xmen, teens with Spidey. DC tried very hard to make the characters relatable (maybe because most of DC characters were already grown ups) . It took a decade and the awesome duo of Denny O'Neal and Neal Adams to address real problems.

 

[shauner111]

Yes DC had characters that took inspiration from pulp magazines, etc. Batman was based on Zorro and more. That's not the point of what im saying at all.

Im talking strictly comic book companies. Marvel and DC.

I don't find it creative when they're ripping off a character completely and just dressing him up a little different. Or changing his or her race. Or doing an amalgam of 2 characters.

DC for example, Man-Bat and Killer Croc are rip-offs of Marvel's Lizard. Man-Bat in execution and character. Croc in terms of the whole concept. They just, over the years, made him a black man, dumbed down his character to nothing more than a thug instead of having him be this intelligent scientist.

Every one of those companies are guilty at some point. But Marvel started it, and more than half of their characters are far too much like the characters DC created decades prior.

But like I said, ill give credit to Marvel and Stan Lee because back in the 60s they were more creative and fresh even if some of those creations were rip-offs.

 

[KangConquers]

Yes DC had characters that took inspiration from pulp magazines, etc. Batman was based on Zorro and more. That's not the point of what im saying at all.

Im talking strictly comic book companies. Marvel and DC.

I don't find it creative when they're ripping off a character completely and just dressing him up a little different. Or changing his or her race. Or doing an amalgam of 2 characters.

DC for example, Man-Bat and Killer Croc are rip-offs of Marvel's Lizard. Man-Bat in execution and character. Croc in terms of the whole concept. They just, over the years, made him a black man, dumbed down his character to nothing more than a thug instead of having him be this intelligent scientist.

Every one of those companies are guilty at some point. But Marvel started it, and more than half of their characters are far too much like the characters DC created decades prior.

But like I said, ill give credit to Marvel and Stan Lee because back in the 60s they were more creative and fresh even if some of those creations were rip-offs.

I just think it's a slippery slope to say "Marvel ripped of DC by using the color green in a character's name" when DC clearly ripped it off from some place else.

And for the record, I don't look at Killer Croc as a Lizard rip off. I like Lizard, I like Killer Croc. Neither are in my top 10 for their respective companies, but both entertain me. The whole idea of who did what first becomes incredibly arbitrary when you have to be 60 years old (or in the case of DC, 80 years old) to remember vividly the early issues of the characters we're talking about. The pissing contests just seem like a waste of time to me.

 

[shauner111]

It's not a slippery slope IMO. Even if they're not looking directly at DC wanting to rip them off in that situation. As a creator, you should be aware that there is a Green Lantern and a Green Arrow that's existed in the medium, even after Green Hornet, and say "that's been done before. Let's do something else."

Sorry but after all these years of being a fan of certain spidey villains, Green Goblin being one of them. I can say that the "Green" has always been unnecessary in the name. They could have called him "The Goblin" and it would work just fine. He's not even all green in classic form. But instead im sure they tried to cash in somehow on the catchiness of the name and having their own "Green something" in their gallery.

Just look at Hawkeye as another example of wanting their own Green Arrow. DC had a "Hawkman". Was it really necessary to have another Hawk-something?? Get original Marvel.

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

It's not a slippery slope IMO. Even if they're not looking directly at DC wanting to rip them off in that situation. As a creator, you should be aware that there is a Green Lantern and a Green Arrow that's existed in the medium, even after Green Hornet, and say "that's been done before. Let's do something else."

Sorry but after all these years of being a fan of certain spidey villains, Green Goblin being one of them. I can say that the "Green" has always been unnecessary in the name. They could have called him "The Goblin" and it would work just fine. He's not even all green in classic form. But instead im sure they tried to cash in somehow on the catchiness of the name and having their own "Green something" in their gallery.

Just look at Hawkeye as another example of wanting their own Green Arrow. DC had a "Hawkman". Was it really necessary to have another Hawk-something?? Get original Marvel.

you are reaching

 

[shauner111]

Reaching for creativity, yeah.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Green Lantern actually borrows a lot from Edward Elmer Smith's Lensman series of science fiction books.

Hah I was actually reading about the Lensman the other day! Wonder what inspired them...

Most creations where rip offs or had drawn inspiration from something out of a pulp magazine. Comics in fact is a continuation or the evolution of the Pulp Magazine in many many ways.

Both companies' characters draw heavily either from Mythology or Classic Stories like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde or Pulp Magazines. Spiderman was basically a name then Stan Lee told that name to Steve Ditko and his genius made Spiderman.

Stan Lee was a really intelligent man, he kinda knew what people wanted, relatable characters. He attracted minorities with Xmen, teens with Spidey. DC tried very hard to make the characters relatable (maybe because most of DC characters were already grown ups) . It took a decade and the awesome duo of Denny O'Neal and Neal Adams to address real problems.

 

[Kevin Smith]

@Shauner

I'm a bigger DC guy than a Marvel guy and I honestly never thought to look at the whole Lizard VS Man Bat/Killer Croc thing that way, lol. They never seemed anything alike to me. Interesting observation, though I really don't think one is trying to rip the other off in this case.

Now that's not to say there's never been any rip-offery in comics before; there's been PLENTY (The Flash VS The Wizzer, etc, lol), but I just don't see it here.

 

[cleverusername8]

With Killer Croc, isn't he usually just a guy with crocodile like skin? Like in Batman TAS? It seems like half of the incarnations of the character don't even give him a crocodile form unlike Lizard who is always a giant Lizard.

Also, rip off is a strong word for any of the DC/Marvel similarities. Rip off implies a cut and paste with minor details changed. They companies seem to make very similar characters but then own them and make them personal to the universe that the comics have created for them.

For instance, Ant Man and Atom. They are both scientists who didn't set out to be heroes, rather their work granted them their abilities and they eventually join their universes' respective superhero teams. But Ant Man deals a lot with insects and making robots while Atom deals with molecular type things. Also, Ant Man can manipulate his size upwards as well while Atom seems to make himself infinitely small. I see those as big enough differences to not warrant the word "rip off".

 

[metaphysician]

Hah I was actually reading about the Lensman the other day! Wonder what inspired them...

Probably the idea of the divinely-blessed and chosen knight, from legend. Beyond that, if they weren't innovative, I haven't heard from whence they came.