You say Justice League movie is going to suck? Why?

CConn

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Okay, this may be considered a double thread (and merged), but I simply had to make it, and ask you all this question.

There's been a couple very distinct complaints that have been floating around that I simply don't...understand. Don't see how someone could see them as negatives. They are as follows:

"Batman shouldn't be in a Justice League movie! He's too dark!"

Batman's been in about 95% of the Justice Leagues that have ever existed in the comics. He needs to be a film. It's as simple as that. You may not like it, but then, you don't have to watch it if you don't want to. The people who DO want to see it, the people who DO want a Justice League movie should be allowed to have one and not have a giant piece of the League's puzzle missing just because YOU don't want it to happen.


"Bale and Routh should be in it!"

Should they? As the first "complaint" I detailed shows, there's a large percentage of people who don't even want to see Batman in the film. They want Nolan's movies to be totally disconnected from anything remotely fantasy or sci-fi. And y'know what? Not having Bale in the movie does EXACTLY that. With Bale not in it, the Justice League movie can be a completely different entity than Nolan's Batman movies.
It could instead tie into Keaton's Batman or Kilmer's or whatever you want. The Nolan movies will exist in their own, realistic, adult, gritty world, and the JL movie will be in it's own fantasy, sci-fi world. Everyone gets what they want - Batman in a JL movie, a seperation of the Nolan films from everything else, Bale being guaranteed to appear in a third Nolan Batman film - with as little possible sacrafice as possible.

Also, due to having different actors, we'll end up being treated to different interpretations of the characters, and different ways of playing the characters. Y'know, we're going to see at least three movies with Bale as Batman, hopefully we'll see three with Routh as Superman - but what recasting them in the JL movie does is give us - the audience, the fans - a chance to see another interpretation, another version of the characters without sacraficing seeing Bale or Routh or whoever. We'll still have the Nolan movies. We'll still have Bale's performances in them. But now, we'll have something else. We'll have something MORE.


"The production is being rushed!"

How on Earth is the production being rushed? The script was commissioned in February, they've been done writing (at least drafts of) it for quite some time now. As for filming, they're planning for filming to start in the beginning of 2008. The release date is Summer 2009.

When did the filming of Batman Begins start? The beginning of 2004. It's release date was Summer 2005. When did Superman Returns start filming? The beginning of 2005. It's release date was Summer 2006. When did The Dark Knight start filming? The beginning of 2007. With a release date of Summer 2008.

Starting to see a trend here? All of DC's films - good films, at that - have been produced in the same time frame as they're giving the Justice League movie. If those movies weren't rushed (and I haven't heard ANYONE every say they were), why would the JL movie be rushed?

While it's true, I'll admit, WB IS pushing for JL to come out quickly; they're not having it be developed over 5, 10, 15 years like the Superman and Batman movies. But - and this is a fact, not just my opinion - if you have a good script, a good director, you don't need 5, 10, 15 years to properly develop a film. You need 6 months for pre-production, a year for production and post...and that's exactly what Justice League is getting.


"It doesn't have a good director!"

Alright, while it's true, George Miller hasn't made a lot of films in his career, it's also true - the films he has made - have been EXTREMELY well recieved and well liked by the majority of viewers. Whether it be a family film like Babe, or a cult favorite like Mad Max, or an Oscar-winning annimated film, it's obvious - IMO, at least - Miller knows what he's doing, and has been successful in making films. Does his style match the Justice League? Well, he obviously could throw the JLA into Babe or Happy Feet's universes, but to say he couldn't adapt - find - a style to fit the JLA and work with the JLA...that just doesn't hold water to me. Especially since - as I said - he has been successful in multiple genres.

"It'll be really cheesy."

Now that, I can see. Granted, I never consider cheesiness to be a bad thing in its own right, but it's definitely a possibly/probably true statement.


"The script sounds bad."

Okay, that's another complain I can see. I don't quite agree with it as I personally have liked everything I've heard about the film, if you don't like it, that's your right, I certainly can't argue against it.
Well, that's all I can think of now. Just let me say, in closing, I'm not saying I think the Justice League movie is going to be great or good or whatever - it could be anything. It could be great or it could suck. What I AM saying is I don't believe at this time there's any way to actually tell which it will be; whether it will be great or horrible. Good or bad. It's just not far enough along in production, there's just not enough information yet, AND - as I've detailed above - I don't believe people are giving it a fair chance at it being good and are making up reasons for it being bad that frankly don't make any sense, and don't really have much logic behind them.

So yeah, if you don't like the idea of a Justice League movie and have some reasoning I didn't think of and didn't included, please post it, I'd love to hear it, and see if it has any merit, but I don't think I'll ever understand most of the complaints above.
 
It's really immaterial at this point because this movie is starting to sound as likely as Goyer's Flash or Whedon's Wonder Woman.
 
I wouldn't be quite so sure. They didn't come close to casting Flash or Wonder Woman like they are with JLA.

Besides, even if it doesn't happen, it still doesn't change that I just don't think that most of the arguments against the movie have an ounce of weight to them.
 
"Batman shouldn't be in a Justice League movie! He's too dark!"

Batman's been in about 95% of the Justice Leagues that have ever existed in the comics. He needs to be a film. It's as simple as that. You may not like it, but then, you don't have to watch it if you don't want to. The people who DO want to see it, the people who DO want a Justice League movie should be allowed to have one and not have a giant piece of the League's puzzle missing just because YOU don't want it to happen.

The anti-JLA movie people are not a homogenous group, and there are different opinions. Some people are Nolan/"realism" purists, and don't want to see Nolan's Batman (or Batman period) in the movie, because they think there's too much fantasy and scifi in it. I don't agree with that view, since Batman has a long history with the JLA, and the JLA is supposed to be an All-Star team of the world's greatest heroes. And even Batman Begins was science fiction, with "memory cloth" gliding wings, roof-jumping cars, and a high-tech microwave weapon which can vaporize water but somehow not harm people standing right next to it.

"Bale and Routh should be in it!"

Should they? As the first "complaint" I detailed shows, there's a large percentage of people who don't even want to see Batman in the film. They want Nolan's movies to be totally disconnected from anything remotely fantasy or sci-fi. And y'know what? Not having Bale in the movie does EXACTLY that. With Bale not in it, the Justice League movie can be a completely different entity than Nolan's Batman movies.
It could instead tie into Keaton's Batman or Kilmer's or whatever you want. The Nolan movies will exist in their own, realistic, adult, gritty world, and the JL movie will be in it's own fantasy, sci-fi world. Everyone gets what they want - Batman in a JL movie, a seperation of the Nolan films from everything else, Bale being guaranteed to appear in a third Nolan Batman film - with as little possible sacrafice as possible.

A lot of people like continuity. Ongoing continuity between movies makes the fictional universe a lot richer, and gives fans who stick around a much more rewarding feeling. I want the JLA movie to be a big payoff after DC's primary heroes are properly introduced. I also think that Bale's Batman is the definitive movie portrayal, and want to see more of him.

"The production is being rushed!"

How on Earth is the production being rushed? The script was commissioned in February, they've been done writing (at least drafts of) it for quite some time now. As for filming, they're planning for filming to start in the beginning of 2008. The release date is Summer 2009.

When did the filming of Batman Begins start? The beginning of 2004. It's release date was Summer 2005. When did Superman Returns start filming? The beginning of 2005. It's release date was Summer 2006. When did The Dark Knight start filming? The beginning of 2007. With a release date of Summer 2008.

Starting to see a trend here? All of DC's films - good films, at that - have been produced in the same time frame as they're giving the Justice League movie. If those movies weren't rushed (and I haven't heard ANYONE every say they were), why would the JL movie be rushed?

The question shouldn't be how long the movies take to film (since it's going to be approximately the same for all movies), but how long they were planned. Both Batman Begins and Superman Returns were in development in one form or another for years.

They were also movies that were not trying to pull off anything nearly as big as the Justice League movie is trying to. The way things are turning out, the movie will be trying to introduce a half dozen, if not more major characters with vastly different backgrounds, who have never appeared in movies before. And it's pretty much a sure bet that in any Justice League movie, Batman and Superman will be given the lion's share of the focus. I'm not very confident that characters like the Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, or Aquaman will be fleshed out very much at all. And according to some rumors, Martian Manhunter (a founder, and the member with the longest service on the team) won't even be in the movie.

But - and this is a fact, not just my opinion - if you have a good script, a good director, you don't need 5, 10, 15 years to properly develop a film. You need 6 months for pre-production, a year for production and post...and that's exactly what Justice League is getting.

But DO they have a good script? No one can say for sure until they've read it. But I can say that there are red flags raising my concern, such as the WB blatantly giving up on developing solo movies (all their plans thus far have failed), the rush to push this movie out the door, rumors of Batman and Superman being written "younger," etc.

"It doesn't have a good director!"

Alright, while it's true, George Miller hasn't made a lot of films in his career, it's also true - the films he has made - have been EXTREMELY well recieved and well liked by the majority of viewers. Whether it be a family film like Babe, or a cult favorite like Mad Max, or an Oscar-winning annimated film, it's obvious - IMO, at least - Miller knows what he's doing, and has been successful in making films. Does his style match the Justice League? Well, he obviously could throw the JLA into Babe or Happy Feet's universes, but to say he couldn't adapt - find - a style to fit the JLA and work with the JLA...that just doesn't hold water to me. Especially since - as I said - he has been successful in multiple genres.

I don't think there's a lot of people actually saying that George Miller is a bad director. Rather, there are concerns that he was picked ONLY because Happy Feet, a recent children's movie, was successful. A "who's hot" pick, rather than choosing a director because the WB actually thought he would do a good job. IF the WB wants him to turn out a family-friendly money maker, they could restrict and pressure him into dumbing down the movie.
 
This sounds much more likely than the Flash and Wonder Woman movies. Did either of those have auditions like the JL is having now? Also, I don't ever remember a director being attached to those either. I'm not very informed about either of those now dead projects, so I could be wrong. However, the Justice League seems like it's going to happen.
 
The WB is simply incompetent at getting its comic properties on the big screen. Batman Begins, and to a far lesser extent Superman Returns are the only projects that have been turned into successful movies. It seems like a miracle that they were even made. CINO was a disgrace. Goyer's Flash, Whedon's Wonder Woman, Superman vs. Batman, etc. have all died in developmental hell.

There's a lot of TALK about the Justice League movie, and it's further along than the above-mentioned projects. It has a script - but so did the Jack Black Green Lantern movie (which WAS real, but thankfully killed off due to fan backlash). I say there's still a good chance that the WB is blowing a lot of hot air. As someone who's against the idea of making this movie so soon, before solo movies for each of the major members, I'm still holding out hope that this project will be abandoned.
 
The anti-JLA movie people are not a homogenous group, and there are different opinions.
Well, duh. I'm just summarizing the most popular opinion. Or, at least, the opinion I've seen the most of.
Some people are Nolan/"realism" purists, and don't want to see Nolan's Batman (or Batman period) in the movie, because they think there's too much fantasy and scifi in it. I don't agree with that view, since Batman has a long history with the JLA, and the JLA is supposed to be an All-Star team of the world's greatest heroes. And even Batman Begins was science fiction, with "memory cloth" gliding wings, roof-jumping cars, and a high-tech microwave weapon which can vaporize water but somehow not harm people standing right next to it.
I agree.
A lot of people like continuity. Ongoing continuity between movies makes the fictional universe a lot richer, and gives fans who stick around a much more rewarding feeling. I want the JLA movie to be a big payoff after DC's primary heroes are properly introduced. I also think that Bale's Batman is the definitive movie portrayal, and want to see more of him.
Y'know, I really haven't heard of anyone argue for continuity. It's either for separation, or - like you - they just think Bale's the best and they want him to be in every movie that has Batman in it.

That said, I do not understand nor agree with that concept of limiting yourself to one actor and one portrayal of a character. All it does is LIMIT the character, all it does is LIMIT what we - as an audience - are getting from these differing films and interpretations. To purposefully, willfully turn away from something new and something different and be so rigidly set on one actor, one interpretation is - to me - a very ignorant and stubborn way of thinking. It's certainly not one I could ever agree with.

The question shouldn't be how long the movies take to film (since it's going to be approximately the same for all movies), but how long they were planned. Both Batman Begins and Superman Returns were in development in one form or another for years.
No, "one form or another" doesn't count. The Tim Burton Superman movie had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the Singer Superman movie and did nothing for it. If anything, it hurt it.

Each project, by each different director/producer/whatever is a protect in and of itself. I know neither Batman Begins with Nolan as its director - nor Superman Returns with Singer - were in pre-production for very long. When WB heard Nolan and Singer's respective pitches, they moved both films along VERY quickly. Which is a good thing. If you have direction, if you have a script, you should move ahead with a movie.

And, again, you DO NOT need 5 years of planning in "one form or another" for a movie to be good. As I said, if anything, that could actually hurt the movie's creative and financial success as much as help it.

They were also movies that were not trying to pull off anything nearly as big as the Justice League movie is trying to. The way things are turning out, the movie will be trying to introduce a half dozen, if not more major characters with vastly different backgrounds, who have never appeared in movies before. And it's pretty much a sure bet that in any Justice League movie, Batman and Superman will be given the lion's share of the focus. I'm not very confident that characters like the Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, or Aquaman will be fleshed out very much at all. And according to some rumors, Martian Manhunter (a founder, and the member with the longest service on the team) won't even be in the movie.
But that really doesn't have anything to do with the amount of time this movie has to be produced. Y'know, if the movie's only two hours long, 50 years of pre-production and planning won't save it from shortchanging a character or two.

That - along with MM not being in it - is a SCRIPT problem. And again, I can't argue with anyone who has a script problem.

I will argue, however, that X-Men - a multi-character film like JLA would be, wasn't even two hours long, dealt with just as many characters as a JLA movie would, and - unfortunately - under characterized one or two, but it was still VERY well received, and did VERY well critically and financially. But, again, that's a seperate matter not pertaining to production time in the least.
But DO they have a good script? No one can say for sure until they've read it. But I can say that there are red flags raising my concern, such as the WB blatantly giving up on developing solo movies (all their plans thus far have failed), the rush to push this movie out the door, rumors of Batman and Superman being written "younger," etc.
But that's my point; we don't know the quality of the script. I'm not assuming it's good. I'm just saying, you really can't assume it's bad either. At this point.

But, like I said, if you don't like the idea of Maxwell Lord, or OMAC being in it, I'm FINE with you not liking the idea of the movie. That is, IMO, a perfectly legitimate complaint, and one I can't argue with...unlike the several I listed above.

I don't think there's a lot of people actually saying that George Miller is a bad director. Rather, there are concerns that he was picked ONLY because Happy Feet, a recent children's movie, was successful. A "who's hot" pick, rather than choosing a director because the WB actually thought he would do a good job. IF the WB wants him to turn out a family-friendly money maker, they could restrict and pressure him into dumbing down the movie.
But we don't know if they want that. That's a complete and utter BLIND assumption. There's ABSOLUTELY no actual evidence to back that up in any way, shape, or form.

What IS factual, what we DO have evidence of, is that Miller is a good director - and THAT'S what we should be paying attention to - not conspiracy theories we're cooking up in our own heads.
 
The WB is simply incompetent at getting its comic properties on the big screen. Batman Begins, and to a far lesser extent Superman Returns are the only projects that have been turned into successful movies. It seems like a miracle that they were even made. CINO was a disgrace. Goyer's Flash, Whedon's Wonder Woman, Superman vs. Batman, etc. have all died in developmental hell.

There's a lot of TALK about the Justice League movie, and it's further along than the above-mentioned projects. It has a script - but so did the Jack Black Green Lantern movie (which WAS real, but thankfully killed off due to fan backlash). I say there's still a good chance that the WB is blowing a lot of hot air. As someone who's against the idea of making this movie so soon, before solo movies for each of the major members, I'm still holding out hope that this project will be abandoned.
You forgot WB's made Superman: The Movie, Superman II, Batman, Batman Returns, Constantine, V For Vendetta, A History of Violence, Road to Perdition, and 300.

And y'know, honestly, this is another thing that bugs the hell out of me; you - like so many others - are letting your own pessimism and pre-conceived, bias and faulty notions prevent you from making any logical, unbias statement or opinion on the JLA movie.

I'm not saying WB hasn't made a lot of bad movies. I'm not saying they haven't let a lot of projects rot in production hell. That's all happened. And, yeah, they suck for it. But to say that - because of that - ALL of their future projects are doomed? That's baseless. To make that statement, to form that opinion means to loose all logic and all intelligence on the subject. IMO.
 
That said, I do not understand nor agree with that concept of limiting yourself to one actor and one portrayal of a character. All it does is LIMIT the character, all it does is LIMIT what we - as an audience - are getting from these differing films and interpretations. To purposefully, willfully turn away from something new and something different and be so rigidly set on one actor, one interpretation is - to me - a very ignorant and stubborn way of thinking. It's certainly not one I could ever agree with.

It's "limiting" the character to stick with a portrayal of him that is almost universally regarded as good, and is all of two years old? There is NO guarantee that another portrayal of Batman will be good, and there is even reason to believe that it will be bad (the rumors of him being written "younger" - even though Bale's portrayal was Year One Batman).

No, "one form or another" doesn't count. The Tim Burton Superman movie had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the Singer Superman movie and did nothing for it. If anything, it hurt it.

I think it does count. People make mistakes, and time allows them to see it and correct them before the final product. The WB has shown over and over again that it makes a TON of mistakes along the way before arriving at something decent.

I will argue, however, that X-Men - a multi-character film like JLA would be, wasn't even two hours long, dealt with just as many characters as a JLA movie would, and - unfortunately - under characterized one or two, but it was still VERY well received, and did VERY well critically and financially. But, again, that's a seperate matter not pertaining to production time in the least.

X-Men is not nearly the same thing as JLA. JLA is an All-Star team of heroes with vastly different backgrounds. The X-Men are all mutants who can be conveniently explained with a few lines of exposition.

A lot of people are also of the opinion that the X-Men movies were more like "Wolverine" movies, with everyone else getting far less time than they deserved. IMO, that's just plain unacceptable for a team with as many stars as the JLA, many of whom haven't even been introduced in solo movies yet.

But we don't know if they want that. That's a complete and utter BLIND assumption. There's ABSOLUTELY no actual evidence to back that up in any way, shape, or form.

What IS factual, what we DO have evidence of, is that Miller is a good director - and THAT'S what we should be paying attention to - not conspiracy theories we're cooking up in our own heads.

It's HARDLY a "conspiracy theory" to think that the WB is like all other companies, and wants to make big bucks. Every other big studio has made huge profits by pandering to the lowest common denominator and turning out shallow blockbusters and unimaginative sequels, and I don't think the WB is too proud to not stoop to that. Especially after Superman Returns, a movie that was praised by the critics but thrashed by the common man on the street for having no fighting and having too much drama, disappointed at the box office.

It's not proven fact. It's just a SUSPICION, which I think has reasoning behind it.
 
Yeah, no one should be judging this as a failed project right from the start. We only know the director and a possible casting for Superman. I understand everyone's opinion about having the characters in their own solo movies first, but I'm kinda against it.

Completing that many movie projects would take a long time. They would have to make a Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Flash movie to get it done. Then to bring them all of them together would be a huge challenge in itself. Actors who played the lead roles in the other movies might not want to do a team-up for various reasons (Bale for example). All of the movies would have to share the same universe(another reason Bale isn't Batman in this movie).

Also, the WB needs to beat Marvel to the punch. They can't lose this super hero battle anymore. Marvel is going to continue to pump out movies(while many will argue their quality) and eventually the Avengers. If the WB is going to have a chance, they need to introduce their big guns all at once, and then go from there.
 
You forgot WB's made Superman: The Movie, Superman II, Batman, Batman Returns,

Made decades ago, and hardly relevant to discussion of the current situation.

Constantine, V For Vendetta, A History of Violence, Road to Perdition, and 300.

OK, the WB sucks at getting its mainstream comic properties on the big screen.

That better for you?:whatever:

And y'know, honestly, this is another thing that bugs the hell out of me; you - like so many others - are letting your own pessimism and pre-conceived, bias and faulty notions prevent you from making any logical, unbias statement or opinion on the JLA movie.

What a load of crap. If I hear good news, then I'll give it props. But IMO, I HAVEN'T heard good news about this movie. It's not sounding like the kind of JLA movie I want to see, and yet I've also been careful so far in many of my posts to say that the movie hasn't come out yet so all we have so far are rumors and early suspicions. God forbid I have an opinion.:whatever:
 
Also, the WB needs to beat Marvel to the punch. They can't lose this super hero battle anymore. Marvel is going to continue to pump out movies(while many will argue their quality) and eventually the Avengers. If the WB is going to have a chance, they need to introduce their big guns all at once, and then go from there.

I don't agree that WB has anything to fear from Marvel. Marvel can keep pumping out its Elektras and FFs, or screwing its few good movie franchises like Spider-Man. WB is not totally dependent on its subsidiary DC comics, and can be quite successful making non-comic blockbusters (Harry Potter). I'd rather not see comic movies, than to see a bad one.
 
It's "limiting" the character to stick with a portrayal of him that is almost universally regarded as good, and is all of two years old?
But we ARE sticking with Bale's Batman...in Christopher Nolan's movies.

JLA Batman would simply be something different.
There is NO guarantee that another portrayal of Batman will be good
No, and that's exciting.
and there is even reason to believe that it will be bad (the rumors of him being written "younger" - even though Bale's portrayal was Year One Batman).
That isn't an inherently bad thing.
I think it does count. People make mistakes, and time allows them to see it and correct them before the final product. The WB has shown over and over again that it makes a TON of mistakes along the way before arriving at something decent.
But you don't always need to make a ton of mistakes for a movie to work. Not at all. IF the script is good (and I'm not saying it is), there's no reason why WB should DELAY the film just so "mistakes can be made" on it. That's utterly ridiculous.
X-Men is not nearly the same thing as JLA. JLA is an All-Star team of heroes with vastly different backgrounds. The X-Men are all mutants who can be conveniently explained with a few lines of exposition.
Part of the point of the X-Men was uniting characters of vastly different backgrounds.
A lot of people are also of the opinion that the X-Men movies were more like "Wolverine" movies, with everyone else getting far less time than they deserved. IMO, that's just plain unacceptable for a team with as many stars as the JLA, many of whom haven't even been introduced in solo movies yet.
That's an opinion I share, actually (on the X-Men movies). But if a JLA movie doing well means Wonder Woman and Flash and Green Lantern getting their own films, I honestly won't have a problem with it ending up a Batman and Superman showcase or whatever. God knows those are the characters people like most. And God knows (most) of us want to see those various solo movies happen anyhow.
It's HARDLY a "conspiracy theory" to think that the WB is like all other companies, and wants to make big bucks. Every other big studio has made huge profits by pandering to the lowest common denominator and turning out shallow blockbusters and unimaginative sequels, and I don't think the WB is too proud to stoop to that. Especially after Superman Returns, a movie that was praised by the critics but thrashed by the common man on the street for having no fighting and having too much drama disappointed at the box office.
Alright, even if WB went with having Justice League be more of a children's film, how is hiring an academy award winning director "pandering to the lowest common denominator"? If they wanted to do that, if they wanted to pander, they'd go out and hire some crappy Disney director to turn out a fluff piece. But no, they didn't do that. Hiring Miller - AT LEAST - shows a desire for the movie to actually be a quality film. Sure, it's possible they're aiming for it to be a film for a younger audience, but that has nothing to do with actual quality.
It's not proven fact. It's just a SUSPICION, which I think has reasoning behind it.
And what I'm saying is it's a bias, foolish reasoning that is had by pessimistic people who aren't even giving a JLA A CHANCE at being good. That's what you're doing. You hear it's coming out and immediately think "okay, what's WB doing wrong here?" And y'know, maybe they are doing something wrong. But, at the same time, they may very well be doing something right. But the truth is you don't know, and I don't know which of those are true. And these "suspicious" are worthless and do nothing but - as is obvious - slant your entire outlook on the project to a doom and gloom view.
 
There is one reason.WB is being cheap about the JLA film,and is afraid to put Bale or Routh into this film,and enganger the solo film franchises..when only Batman is worth it.
 
OK, the WB sucks at getting its mainstream comic properties on the big screen.

That better for you?:whatever:
No, it's not, because if you want to start picking and choosing which movies are "relevant" we could say Superman III and IV and Batman Forever and Robin aren't "relevant". Then we only have Catwoman in a sea of good mainstream comic property movies.
What a load of crap. If I hear good news, then I'll give it props.
I never said you wouldn't.
But IMO, I HAVEN'T heard good news about this movie. It's not sounding like the kind of JLA movie I want to see, and yet I've also been careful so far in many of my posts to say that the movie hasn't come out yet so all we have so far are rumors and early suspicions. God forbid I have an opinion.:whatever:
I've said numerous times I have no problem with anyone having an opinion on something. Whether I agree with it or not. The problem is when you having an opinion that simply isn't logical. And - as I said in my last post - to prescribe to ONLY negative rumors and suspicions is NOT logical and IS doing nothing but pandering to pessimism.

If you haven't seen anything you like that, then that's it. That's all you have to say. You haven't seen anything you like yet. Instead of doing that, instead of saying the ration, logical, and factual thing, you're taking about suspicious and rumors and whatnot, and what I'm saying is, that's where the problem lies.
 
You're correct in that the WB isn't dependable on it's comic book properties. They've been very successful with franchises such as Harry Potter like you've mentioned. However, how do you think they'll feel 5-10 years from now? Captain America, Ironman, Spider-man, the Hulk, and Avengers will all make huge bucks at the box office. They're franchises that have the chance to last for years on end. Franchises like Harry Potter and The Matrix come to an end. The WB has a very good chance to do something right with their comic book properties. They can create a successful team-up with their most iconic characters. This one movie could start a JLA franchise that rakes in over $500 million every time, or it could open up the possibility for other movies with the characters introduced.
 
IMHO it's pretty clear by now that the suits at WB really don't care about respect for the spirit of the source material (if nothing else about it), how the fan base that pours their own money into these properties to make them successful feels, or even how to effectively translate such fantastic elements into a functional movie - they just want people with a history of making something profitable to be involved. Hence the reason WB has made so many mistakes with their comic-book properties (and probably will for the forseeable future). When they hired the director of The Omen to make Superman: The Movie, they got a guy who recognized the character and the mythology of the comics he came from as something iconic; when they hired the director of the first two X-Men movies to make Superman Returns, they got a guy whose image of the character was built SOLELY on Donner's film and didn't have squat to do with the comics from which it all originated.

As for the non-mainstream titles being made into the movies, there's lower risk involved there - mainly, you don't have to worry about f***ing up the portrayal of a character or plot line if the moviegoing public by and large has never heard of them. Most non-fans remember the Justice League back when they were called the Super Friends; on that same coin, most non-fans probably don't even realize that Road To Perdition was based on a comic.
 
IMHO it's pretty clear by now that the suits at WB really don't care about respect for the spirit of the source material (if nothing else about it), how the fan base that pours their own money into these properties to make them successful feels, or even how to effectively translate such fantastic elements into a functional movie - they just want people with a history of making something profitable to be involved. Hence the reason WB has made so many mistakes with their comic-book properties (and probably will for the forseeable future). When they hired the director of The Omen to make Superman: The Movie, they got a guy who recognized the character and the mythology of the comics he came from as something iconic; when they hired the director of the first two X-Men movies to make Superman Returns, they got a guy whose image of the character was built SOLELY on Donner's film and didn't have squat to do with the comics from which it all originated.

As for the non-mainstream titles being made into the movies, there's lower risk involved there - mainly, you don't have to worry about f***ing up the portrayal of a character or plot line if the moviegoing public by and large has never heard of them. Most non-fans remember the Justice League back when they were called the Super Friends; on that same coin, most non-fans probably don't even realize that Road To Perdition was based on a comic.

such as myself. and i agree with your other points as well. to me this feels like an arms race between marvel and WB and there just churning out movie after movie no matter the quality.
 
I for one, think everyone should just sit back and shut up and wait until we get something more concrete about the film before declaring that it's going to "suck" or "pwn"

It's obvious that no one here or elsewhere in fan land really knows much of anything about this project right now.
 
But we ARE sticking with Bale's Batman...in Christopher Nolan's movies.

Point is, people like Bale's Batman, a version which is TWO YEARS OLD (as in the difference of time between Spider-Man 1 and 2). They want to see him in more movies, and don't want the WB to take an unnecessary risk that has the potential of confusing and pissing off the mainstream audience.

No, and that's exciting.

I don't get the logic here. They're going AWAY from a proven, good version of the character, and you have NO evidence either way if this new version is good, and you think it's "exciting?"

That isn't an inherently bad thing.

The early impression from the movie's detractors is that they're making the character lighter, hipper, and more "fun" to appeal to younger audiences. The idea also doesn't make sense, because Bale's Batman is Year One Batman. Batman simply is not a character whose personality can be described as "young."

But you don't always need to make a ton of mistakes for a movie to work. Not at all. IF the script is good (and I'm not saying it is), there's no reason why WB should DELAY the film just so "mistakes can be made" on it. That's utterly ridiculous.

You also don't need to practice at anything, IF you have enough natural skill and you're a very quick learner. But that doesn't mean that it should be expected and acceptable for people not to practice at something. The WB's past performance when it comes to developing their comic movies is NOT one that makes me confident that they can make such a big, ambitious movie so fast.

Part of the point of the X-Men was uniting characters of vastly different backgrounds.

Sure, X-Men has some characters with different ethnic backgrounds. Storm's African, Wolverine is Canadian, Nightcrawler is German, whatever. Point is, they're ALL mutants, all fight for the same cause, and can all be explained with some quick exposition about mutants.

JLA is not nearly the same thing.

Alright, even if WB went with having Justice League be more of a children's film, how is hiring an academy award winning director "pandering to the lowest common denominator"? If they wanted to do that, if they wanted to pander, they'd go out and hire some crappy Disney director to turn out a fluff piece. But no, they didn't do that. Hiring Miller - AT LEAST - shows a desire for the movie to actually be a quality film. Sure, it's possible they're aiming for it to be a film for a younger audience, but that has nothing to do with actual quality.

But did they hire Miller because they think he's good, or because he made Happy Feet, which recently made a ton of money? That is the question on a lot of people's minds.

And the rumor about Superman and Batman being written "younger" is seen as a cause for concern. Especially when Superman was already played by baby-faced Brandon Routh, and Bale's Batman is already a Year One portrayal.

And what I'm saying is it's a bias, foolish reasoning that is had by pessimistic people

It's "foolish" and "pessimistic" when you don't like the rumor of "younger" Supes and Bats, when SR and BB were already very young portrayals of the characters?

It's "foolish" and "pessimistic" to doubt the WB's ability to make a good JLA movie, a movie which will be cluttered by a half dozen or more characters that audiences aren't familiar with yet, when the WB seems incapable of launching movies focusing on ONE character?:whatever:

And what about the OTHER side of things? Are people being blindly loyal and overly optimistic if they hear these rumors, and immediately think the movie will be awesome, even though they haven't read the script and have no real details about the movie?
 
No, it's not, because if you want to start picking and choosing which movies are "relevant" we could say Superman III and IV and Batman Forever and Robin aren't "relevant". Then we only have Catwoman in a sea of good mainstream comic property movies.

Wow. Seriously, in a discussion of WB's ability to make comic movies, you think Superman, a film made thirty years ago (more than a lifetime by Hollywood standards) is relevant?

Don't bring crappy analogies to try to make a point.

The problem is when you having an opinion that simply isn't logical.

Is it logical to be OPTIMISTIC about this film? Have you made posts denouncing the people who are already excited and pumped for this movie?

And I DON'T think that being negative is necessarily illogical. Look at CINO. All the "haters" called that crap from the beginning, as they heard bits of bad news. You DON'T need to stick your head in crap to call it what it is, if you can smell it from a distance.

Not to jump to conclusions and declare JLA to be crap already, just saying that I'm not liking what I'm hearing so far.
 
This sounds much more likely than the Flash and Wonder Woman movies. Did either of those have auditions like the JL is having now?
They had stars, directors and writers all attached.
Also, I don't ever remember a director being attached to those either.
Goyer was directing and writing Flash, Whedon was directing and writing Wonder Woman. We even heard rumors about other people attached to the project...the whole nine yards.
I'm not very informed about either of those now dead projects, so I could be wrong. However, the Justice League seems like it's going to happen.
Much like many other dead properties did.
 
I am so sick of people saying there isn't enough time to introduce characters like Flash, ww, gl, and so forth in one film cuz they've never been in a movie before...

WTF? Have you seen the original Star Wars? George Lucas not only introduced a plethera of characters who were brand new to the audience, but an entire universe people had never seen before. He did it in 2 hours, 20 minutes. There is more than enough time to introduce established pop-culteral icons like Flash and Wonder Woman in this film.


My only hope is that will find time for Martian Manhunter too.
 
the director isnt even signed on yet, and they're already trying to start casting....thats rushing a production. hell, they'd even admit thats the case with the impending strike.
 
just because a director hasnt been formally announced yet doesnt mean he hasnt signed on.
 

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