Should We Water Board Terror Suspects To Save Lives?

[bell110]

What if we torture someone how is innocent?

 

[Memphis Slim]

What if we torture someone how is innocent?

What if we don't torture someone who is guilty?

 

[bell110]

Isn't it better NOT to torture the innocent then to torture someone who is "guilty"?

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

oooooooooh....look at all the big font and pretty colors!!

Being the Bible Scholar that you are, you'd know that Jesus is the same God of the Old Testament. You'd also know that His sacrifice only cancelled the ceremonial laws and civil laws.
***disingenuous copy/pasted rubbish***

I don't know which right wing Christian tub of malarky you got that from, but it's bulls***.

According to your delusions, everything changed when Jesus came. We don't slaughter sheep and doves anymore, we can touch menstruating women, etc.

One of the biggest changes is, your "Lord" was made flesh.
Here's what he f***ing had to say. Ignore him at your imaginary peril.



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39


All you've proved is that your Bible is worthless, chock full of contradictory teachings, and a schizophrenic "God", blathering nonsense at whatever whim he fancies.

Was Hitler evil? Yes.
Did we resist him? Yes.
Direct defiance of Jesus' command.


Whenever he sounds like a pacifist, a pacifist can find a way to twist his warlike words into something "less literal" or more "symbolic", or "poorly translated"............as they ALWAYS do with Matthew 10:34
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]And any Warhawk can find the admonitions HE likes, where Jesus sounds like a f***ing BAD-ASS, and can twist the wussy, Pacifist things he said to mean something else as well.

You're all pathetic.
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• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If you think Jesus would have a Hoochie Mama shaking her naked ass for an avatar, then you're stupid like Mr. 7000+[/FONT]

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• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If you think Jesus would burn the faces off of children, after he said WOE to anyone who harms children, they'd be better off putting a mill stone around their necks, then you're stupid like Memphis Slim.[/FONT]

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[bell110]

There is an old saying that goes something like, "I'd rather have 100 guilty people go free then 1 innocent person go to jail." Do you get what that means?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Millions could be at risk one day. You deny that? You don't think we should do everything possible to get that info?

And I want YOU (Mr. Speckle) to understand that I could care less about what you want me to do.

Especially since this a hypothetical.

LOL again

I ( "I" meaning me, mr sparkle) want you ( "you" meaning Celldog) to name an example of a terrorist attack in the US or and attack on US interests in the world in which " millions" died.(get it?, now I'd like you to answer)

 

[Addendum]

Which none of them follow at all.

And that's a piss-poor reason for us to throw out the rule book

 

[Mister Sinister]

Surely treating people humanely is what separates us from our enemies?

 

[Addendum]

That's such a civilized and ethical answer. Our country doesn't have time for that. You think this A stands for France?

 

[Figs]

And that's a piss-poor reason for us to throw out the rule book

Ok then, we won't throw out the rule book. We'll just pamper them and simply ask them question after question after question. Which of course they will either keep silent the entire time til their let go, or lie to every question..........til their let go.

Yes, torture can make someone admit to something that they didn't really do or know. If anything, if we capture known and proven terrorists, instead of torture and since other methods won't make them speak the truth, we should just lock them up for the rest of their lives.....no joke.

 

[Addendum]

Doesn't matter if they're terrorists or an army from another country that doesn't follow the rules of war. While this country has done some things that are shameful, just like any other country in the world, this nation has always valued the rules of war and rules of engagement, despite the efforts of some people to throw out the rule book.

 

[Figs]

Doesn't matter if they're terrorists or an army from another country that doesn't follow the rules of war. While this country has done some things that are shameful, just like any other country in the world, this nation has always valued the rules of war and rules of engagement, despite the efforts of some people to throw out the rule book.

My point/belief, isn't to throw out the rule book entirely. More like bending one, I repeat one rule in regards to terrorists and only terrorists. Like I said in a previous post, to me they don't belong to a governed country, their basically rebels. I don't believe in torture when it comes to the enemy in a possible war were the enemy is an actual country that would also follow the rules of war. With terrorists, screw 'em.

Yeah, I know that it makes us look bad and we shouldn't do it because it's what seperates us from them and all. I just don't think those suicidal religious psycho wackjobs deserve fair treatment. That's just me though.

 

[danoyse]

My point/belief, isn't to throw out the rule book entirely. More like bending one, I repeat one rule in regards to terrorists and only terrorists. Like I said in a previous post, to me they don't belong to a governed country, their basically rebels. I don't believe in torture when it comes to the enemy in a possible war were the enemy is an actual country that would also follow the rules of war. With terrorists, screw 'em.

Yeah, I know that it makes us look bad and we shouldn't do it because it's what seperates us from them and all. I just don't think those suicidal religious psycho wackjobs deserve fair treatment. That's just me though.

And if were that simple, we wouldn't have any more terrorists, would we?

But we're detaining people suspected of terrorism, not always terrorists. Many of them wound up not being charged with a crime. Torture has lead to false confessions, lies, and revenge from existing terrorist groups. There's no value in it.

 

[Memphis Slim]

Isn't it better NOT to torture the innocent then to torture someone who is "guilty"?

It depends on what is at stake. It is unfortunate. But please tell me when was the last time the "innocent" did not suffer in a conflict? Most of these guys made their own beds with their associations.

 

[Memphis Slim]

I don't know which right wing Christian tub of malarky you got that from, but it's bulls***.

According to your delusions, everything changed when Jesus came. We don't slaughter sheep and doves anymore, we can touch menstruating women, etc.

One of the biggest changes is, your "Lord" was made flesh.
Here's what he f***ing had to say. Ignore him at your imaginary peril.



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 5:39[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]All you've proved is that your Bible is worthless, chock full of contradictory teachings, and a schizophrenic "God", blathering nonsense at whatever whim he fancies.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Was Hitler evil? Yes.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Did we resist him? Yes.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Direct defiance of Jesus' command.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Whenever he sounds like a pacifist, a pacifist can find a way to twist his warlike words into something "less literal" or more "symbolic", or "poorly translated"............as they ALWAYS do with Matthew 10:34[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]And any Warhawk can find the admonitions HE likes, where Jesus sounds like a f***ing BAD-ASS, and can twist the wussy, Pacifist things he said to mean something else as well.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You're all pathetic.[/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If you think Jesus would have a Hoochie Mama shaking her naked ass for an avatar, then you're stupid like Mr. 7000+[/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]If you think Jesus would burn the faces off of children, after he said WOE to anyone who harms children, they'd be better off putting a mill stone around their necks, then you're stupid like Memphis Slim.[/FONT]

You just can't handle it can you?

 

[Memphis Slim]

 

[Memphis Slim]

There is an old saying that goes something like, "I'd rather have 100 guilty people go free then 1 innocent person go to jail." Do you get what that means?

Letting a 100 guilty people go free to rape and murder again makes no sense.


And there's the one that says "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the the one".

That's how real heroes are born. Guys that throw themselves on grenades to save their squad.

If I can save hundreds, thousands or millions (sorry Mr Spakle ) I will do just that. If this one guy has known associates who are known terrorists and intel has them plotting something, wellllllll guess what.

 

[danoyse]

It depends on what is at stake. It is unfortunate. But please tell me when was the last time the "innocent" did not suffer in a conflict? Most of these guys made their own beds with their associations.

Tell that to the innocent guy who has panic attacks in his own shower after being waterboarded.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/02/14/050214fa_fact6?currentPage=1

Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/N.Y.U. Program for Survivors of Torture, told me that he had treated a number of people who had been subjected to such forms of near-asphyxiation, and he argued that it was indeed torture. Some victims were still traumatized years later, he said. One patient couldn’t take showers, and panicked when it rained. “The fear of being killed is a terrifying experience,” he said.

So by your logic, was slavery "unfortunate"? How about interning Japanese Americans during WWII? I don't see "unfortunate" listed in history books regarding things we've done in this country that haven't been right. It's just plain wrong.

 

[jaguarr]

We should bind their arms and legs in chains and throw them in a lake. If they float, they're a terrorist. If they sink, then they were innocent.

jag

 

[Memphis Slim]

My point/belief, isn't to throw out the rule book entirely. More like bending one, I repeat one rule in regards to terrorists and only terrorists. Like I said in a previous post, to me they don't belong to a governed country, their basically rebels. I don't believe in torture when it comes to the enemy in a possible war were the enemy is an actual country that would also follow the rules of war. With terrorists, screw 'em.

Yeah, I know that it makes us look bad and we shouldn't do it because it's what seperates us from them and all. I just don't think those suicidal religious psycho wackjobs deserve fair treatment. That's just me though.

This ain't Stratego!

 

[danoyse]

We should bind their arms and legs in chains and throw them in a lake. If they float, they're a terrorist. If they sink, then they were innocent.

jag

Then it would be "unfortunate."

 

[Memphis Slim]

Tell that to the innocent guy who has panic attacks in his own shower after being waterboarded.

Unfortunate. Therapy???

So by your logic, was slavery "unfortunate"? How about interning Japanese Americans during WWII? I don't see "unfortunate" listed in history books regarding things we've done in this country that haven't been right. It's just plain wrong.

Unfortunate still. But probably necessary at the time. Would we have won the war without it? No one can say.

But they were not tortured either.

 

[Memphis Slim]

Then it would be "unfortunate."

yes.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

You just can't handle it can you?

Your hypocrisy?

The way you outright lie to support your argument, and then pretend not to notice when you're called on it?

The way you are an evil brute with a decrepit, limping, corrupt sense of logic and the ethics of cartoon character and yet insanely think you are morally superior based on fairy tales, delusions and your own sick pronouncements and twisting of facts?

Certainly I can "handle" it. It's one reason I come here. It's entertaining to watch evil morons spout off and then rub their noses in their own filth.
Makes the workday fly right by.

 

[danoyse]

Unfortunate still. But probably necessary at the time. Would we have won the war without it? No one can say.

But they were not tortured either.

Are you honestly saying that slaves weren't tortured?

I need you to explain how interning the Japanese (when half of the people interned were children) helped us win WWII.

It's unfortunate how little you really know about these things.