BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Par

[Keyser Sushi]

A more fun way to use Jimmy would be to actually have him be Clark's friend at the DP and provide some banter.

Absolutely.

 

[chintai80]

Anyway, I don't feel that way about BvS or MoS... when you can use violence and darkness to tell a compelling story, I don't mind it. I don't feel that the stuff that happens here happens only to be shocking for the sake of it.

^ i agree, and i think snyder was successful in that with MoS. he defied expectations and went a bit outside the box but was able to use it tell a compelling story (i.e., superman being forced to take the life of zod).

but i think he went overboard with it in BvS, to the detriment of the movie, imo.

 

[MrsKent26]

I didn't find BVS was trying to be "dark for the sake of dark" or just in it to be shocking. I think it had something to say (that didn't always come through right) and that Snyder likes darker stories and characters, which is not a bad thing on its own.

Whether or not people think this darkness suits all the characters involved or was enjoyable is another thing altogether.

 

[chintai80]

too much darknesss! no parents!! more darkness!!!

 

[jmc]

Darkness is fine as long as along the way we are reminded there is a light we are heading towards. TDK was a pretty bleak movie in its theme and ended on a bittersweet note but even that film has a positive undertone to it, right up until the last shot of the movie. In fact all of Nolan's movies have a positive light present at all times. Where Snyder goes wrong is that he's only focused on the darkness, not the dawn that follows it. These particular superhero have to be the light, if you're only going to put them in darkness they are the wrong characters to be using.

 

[Logan0327]

the nolan films are also filled with levity something everyone forgets

 

[matt47]

the nolan films are also filled with levity something everyone forgets

Yep. Especially BB, there is a lot of lol moments, at least for me there was.

 

[SupermanFanboy]

Darkness is fine as long as along the way we are reminded there is a light we are heading towards. TDK was a pretty bleak movie in its theme and ended on a bittersweet note but even that film has a positive undertone to it, right up until the last shot of the movie. In fact all of Nolan's movies have a positive light present at all times. Where Snyder goes wrong is that he's only focused on the darkness, not the dawn that follows it. These particular superhero have to be the light, if you're only going to put them in darkness they are the wrong characters to be using.

No Dawn?? After Lex cruely turned the public against superman in the senate hearing scene. Metropolis & Gotham saw that Superman risked his life to destroy doomsday to protect the humans he "loves very much" (words of Zod)! and in doing that he gained the trust and respect and admiration of the public ( the Candle light Ceremony/Military Funeral)! He also Inspired Batman/Bruce Wayne to be a better Hero and a better man after he lost his way a bit after 20 years of fighting crime; and he inspired Wonder Woman/Diana that Humans can still be good and worth saving after she walked away from helping them a century ago! Superman Was the Symbol of Hope the world needed and even the Justice League Needed! The movie Beautifully in my opinion explored all of these themes and was touching for me to see superman have his greatest story told thus far! It was Truly the Dawn of Justice!

 

[AnneFan]

Bruce and Diana will seek out other metahumans, and it's suggested Superman is still alive. There's light at the end of the tunnel. And it's not coming from an oncoming truck's headlights.

 

[Predator jp]

it would've been more convincing and emotional if the movie had shown how Superman won over the civilian's trust during the battle against Doomsday rather than just showing the result of it.

 

[Jumpman]

it would've been more convincing and emotional if the movie had shown how Superman won over the civilian's trust during the battle against Doomsday rather than just showing the result of it.

The ceremony didn't do it for you?! What, it needs to be EXPLICITLY shown in order for you to get it?

"If you seek his monument, look around you". And this is Zack Snyder not being subtle (that whole sequence).

 

[Light]

it would've been more convincing and emotional if the movie had shown how Superman won over the civilian's trust during the battle against Doomsday rather than just showing the result of it.

Yes have Superman pushed to his limits have his speed pushed to as far as he can take it as well as his strength. Have him save civilians as doomsday wrecked the city while also fighting Doomsday. It would have been even better if the fight ended with him and Doomsday beating each other to death as opposed to a *****y spear. Hell it was way to early to bring in the death of Superman to an audience that hadn't connected with him. Imagine if Christopher Reeeve Superman was killed years after his introduction I guarantee you people would have been weeping like a baby because of the connection built with the audience and watching the character grow and evolve.

 

[SupermanFanboy]

it would've been more convincing and emotional if the movie had shown how Superman won over the civilian's trust during the battle against Doomsday rather than just showing the result of it.

Could you Describe to me 3 well thought out scenes of your own that you would have included to prove your thesis if you don't mind?

I'm scratching my head as to how you would take the end results and put it somehow during the fight of doomsday befor the impact of his sacrifice! The sacrifice he made is the emotional push to the people of Metropolis & Gotham and to The Leaguers

I really loved the fact Superman took Doomsday to space to keep him away from humans very VERY Clever!! And the government wanting to destroy Doomsday and hoping superman comes out of it only to have the opposite happen....you can tell the military was devastated emotionally

 

[Light]

The ceremony didn't do it for you?! What, it needs to be EXPLICITLY shown in order for you to get it?

"If you seek his monument, look around you". And this is Zack Snyder not being subtle (that whole sequence).

No it didn't do it because it wasn't earned, read and watch a lot of people's reviews and the complaint with the death of Superman being implemented in the story at this stage. A lot of people feel that this story arc was not earned because no one really knows or even cares about this Superman. Imagine in Justice League 2 or 3 a scene similair to this after the audience has got to know this Superman.[YT]http://youtu.be/pmU6SyMUD9Y[/YT]

 

[Jumpman]

Well I can't help you then. I don't have the attachment to the character of "Superman" that you do. Nor does it matter much to me. I look at these as movies, not as adaptations of comics. The same way I look at any adaptation first and foremost really. How it stands on its own, not how it stands as an adaptation.

Not saying that you're wrong for having expectations of a character either, btw.

This. 100%.

 

[Jumpman]

No it didn't do it because it wasn't earned, read and watch a lot of people's reviews and the complaint with the death of Superman being implemented in the story at this stage. A lot of people feel that this story arc was not earned because no one really knows or even cares about this Superman. Imagine in Justice League 2 or 3 a scene similair to this after the audience has got to know this Superman.[YT]http://youtu.be/pmU6SyMUD9Y[/YT]

Agree to disagree that this wasn't earned in the slightest. We'll leave it at that.

 

[SupermanFanboy]

Yes have Superman pushed to his limits have his speed pushed to as far as he can take it as well as his strength. Have him save civilians as doomsday wrecked the city while also fighting Doomsday. It would have been even better if the fight ended with him and Doomsday beating each other to death as opposed to a *****y spear. Hell it was way to early to bring in the death of Superman to an audience that hadn't connected with him. Imagine if Christopher Reeeve Superman was killed years after his introduction I guarantee you people would have been weeping like a baby because of the connection built with the audience and watching the character grow and evolve.

Have doomsday and Superman beating each other to death would have been better huh??

Ok so what would you have batman and Wonder Woman doing? This is The Dawn Of Justice to begin with!

Doomsday and superman can't beat each other to the death because their both Kryptonians!!! They can beat the **** out of each other all they want but they can't kill each other! The Kryptonite spear made beautifully by our caped crusader was the only thing that could kill doomsday and even superman! I loved how Snyder utilized the whole trio to take down doomsday! Truly Embodied the Team dynamic of the justice league!! Wonder Woman holding doomsday steady in her unbreakable lasso; to Batman firing his Kryptonite gas at him and superman flying in with the Kryptonite spear for the final blow to defeat him! Beautiful scene

 

[Predator jp]

The ceremony didn't do it for you?! What, it needs to be EXPLICITLY shown in order for you to get it?

"If you seek his monument, look around you". And this is Zack Snyder not being subtle (that whole sequence).

i never said it needs to be EXPLICITLY shown in order for me to get it. i get it. it just didn't speak to me emotionally that's all. if it did for you, then great. i wouldn't even try to take that away from you.

 

[Greens]

Have doomsday and Superman beating each other to death would have been better huh??

Ok so what would you have batman and Wonder Woman doing? This is The Dawn Of Justice to begin with!

Doomsday and superman can't beat each other to the death because their both Kryptonians!!! They can beat the **** out of each other all they want but they can't kill each other! The Kryptonite spear made beautifully by our caped crusader was the only thing that could kill doomsday and even superman! I loved how Snyder utilized the whole trio to take down doomsday! Truly Embodied the Team dynamic of the justice league!! Wonder Woman holding doomsday steady in her unbreakable lasso; to Batman firing his Kryptonite gas at him and superman flying in with the Kryptonite spear for the final blow to defeat him! Beautiful scene

Yeah, beautiful team work. I love how the trinity didn't talk to each other once before the trinity became a duo again.

 

[SupermanFanboy]

No it didn't do it because it wasn't earned, read and watch a lot of people's reviews and the complaint with the death of Superman being implemented in the story at this stage. A lot of people feel that this story arc was not earned because no one really knows or even cares about this Superman. Imagine in Justice League 2 or 3 a scene similair to this after the audience has got to know this Superman.[YT]http://youtu.be/pmU6SyMUD9Y[/YT]

I'm confused at who your trying to describe as people.....the viewers or civilians of metropolis/Gotham?? Or both?

Well for the viewers we have had 2 full movies of this superman and we're talking about movies here with a story and fictional civilians and characters. Don't compare what these fictional civilians are feeling to how you feel!

As for the Civilians of metropolis & Gotham.....he saved kids from a bus; he saved metropolis and the world from Zod! He saved people from around the world from burning buildings, floods, etc...And he Saved Metropolis & Gotham from Doomsday! He has done more than enough to have these fictional civilians know who he is, to worship him like a god, to rally for him at the senate, etc! There was collateral damage along the way from Zod & very little to none from doomsday cause that last scene was at the abandoned place on that island in Gotham! That collateral damage have deeply affected many people as well and made them hate superman so you have those too that do not like him! (Like the divided world we live in today that's brilliant)

 

[Light]

Have doomsday and Superman beating each other to death would have been better huh??

Ok so what would you have batman and Wonder Woman doing? This is The Dawn Of Justice to begin with!

Doomsday and superman can't beat each other to the death because their both Kryptonians!!! They can beat the **** out of each other all they want but they can't kill each other! The Kryptonite spear made beautifully by our caped crusader was the only thing that could kill doomsday and even superman! I loved how Snyder utilized the whole trio to take down doomsday! Truly Embodied the Team dynamic of the justice league!! Wonder Woman holding doomsday steady in her unbreakable lasso; to Batman firing his Kryptonite gas at him and superman flying in with the Kryptonite spear for the final blow to defeat him! Beautiful scene

Ehhh do it like the comics minus the other leaguers being present, Doomsday wrecks them despite WW putting up a monumental battle against doomsday(this way she makes a great impression on her first introduction) have it be that it reaches a point where the only one that can put this monster down is Superman and then have him and Doomsday beat on each other like never witnessed in a comic book movie before. Have it play like a Rocky fight scene that despite the amount of beating Supes takes he won't back down or stop because he knows his the last thing standing between this monster and humanity and Superman never backs down from overwhelming odds.

 

[SupermanFanboy]

Yeah, beautiful team work. I love how the trinity didn't talk to each other once before the trinity became a duo again.

First off they never were a duo before!! So "again" is false!! And Bruce and Diana knew superman from the world coverage and collateral damage! Bruce and Clark did not know who Diana was at all she was the most perfect at being quiet and not giving away identity! Clark found out who batman was when he heard brusce and Alfred's conversation at the party! And Bruce eventually found out about Diana from that harddrive or whatever! Plus talking with her again later at a museum exhibit!

 

[Light]

I'm confused at who your trying to describe as people.....the viewers or civilians of metropolis/Gotham?? Or both?

Well for the viewers we have had 2 full movies of this superman and we're talking about movies here with a story and fictional civilians and characters. Don't compare what these fictional civilians are feeling to how you feel!

As for the Civilians of metropolis & Gotham.....he saved kids from a bus; he saved metropolis and the world from Zod! He saved people from around the world from burning buildings, floods, etc...And he Saved Metropolis & Gotham from Doomsday! He has done more than enough to have these fictional civilians know who he is, to worship him like a god, to rally for him at the senate, etc! There was collateral damage along the way from Zod & very little to none from doomsday cause that last scene was at the abandoned place on that island in Gotham! That collateral damage have deeply affected many people as well and made them hate superman so you have those too that do not like him! (Like the divided world we live in today that's brilliant)

I am referring to the audience which is who the movie is catering to, If we don't feel anything then it doesn't matter what the civilians in the movies are portrayed to be feeling as there is no resonance with the audience. From what we have seen in the movie Superman has not inspired in the movie world. Anyone with his powers could have accomplished the things he has but Superman should be beyond powers and more about his character.

 

[Greens]

I am referring to the audience which is who the movie is catering to, If we don't feel anything then it doesn't matter what the civilians in the movies are portrayed to be feeling as there is no resonance with the audience. From what we have seen in the movie Superman has not inspired in the movie world. Anyone with his powers could have accomplished the things he has but Superman should be beyond powers and more about his character.

This is something a lot of people don't seem to understand. You can describe all kinds of cool things and on paper they will sound amazing, but the execution can be lacking. That Superman montage in BvS sounds awe-inspiring on paper, but in the movie it barely works at all. You can show a whole city crying and mourning Superman, but if it isn't set up correctly... who cares?

 

[Reek]

First off they never were a duo before!! So "again" is false!! And Bruce and Diana knew superman from the world coverage and collateral damage! Bruce and Clark did not know who Diana was at all she was the most perfect at being quiet and not giving away identity! Clark found out who batman was when he heard brusce and Alfred's conversation at the party! And Bruce eventually found out about Diana from that harddrive or whatever! Plus talking with her again later at a museum exhibit!

Why are you screaming at everyone?