Has the MCU peaked?

[Iceman]

I'm 41 now and I cant wait for X-men and FF.

I know we're getting Deadpool 3 net year, but it feels weird to get that relatively early from the end of the Fox era(2020) , but have to wait X years afterwards to get a "full" X-men film.

Yeah it’s the opposite way round lol. The parody many years before the real thing. But I’m certain they are taking the X-Men very seriously and want to give it a huge focus once Secret Wars is out of the way.

 

[Link]

In popularity, MCU has probably peaked. In overall quality? It's hard to say. Marvel used to have a really high quality control, which sometimes resulted in formulaic stuff, but at least you always knew they wouldn't release anything truly bad. Those days are gone. The MCU has tried to be more director-driven, but somehow that hasn't worked out either. Eternals appears to truly be Chloé Zhao's film, but many people dislike it and it wasn't a hit. MoM and LoT were intended to be very director-driven, but by my understanding that wasn't entirely true for the end result and neither one of those films is universally liked. Something that needs to be done (and has been said before in this thread) is paying more attention to characters that have been recently introduced, instead of constantly introducing new ones. But then again, I'm really excited to see their versions of X-Men and Fantastic Four and that's true for a big portion of the fan base. It's all a bit of a mess.

 

[psylockolussus]

They did need to work on fewer projects.

With a dozen movies + shows all in their timetable, I really doubt any studio/producer could do it all successfully and not have a single miss.

Marvel Studios not getting a single rotten film during the Infinity Saga was so impressive because not a lot of franchises, can even last for 5 films without a poorly reviewed movie.

If they have to can several projects to have better quality control so be it, it would be good for the long run of the MCU.

 

[MadVillainy]

In popularity, MCU has probably peaked. In overall quality? It's hard to say. Marvel used to have a really high quality control, which sometimes resulted in formulaic stuff, but at least you always knew they wouldn't release anything truly bad. Those days are gone. The MCU has tried to be more director-driven, but somehow that hasn't worked out either. Eternals appears to truly be Chloé Zhao's film, but many people dislike it and it wasn't a hit. MoM and LoT were intended to be very director-driven, but by my understanding that wasn't entirely true for the end result and neither one of those films is universally liked. Something that needs to be done (and has been said before in this thread) is paying more attention to characters that have been recently introduced, instead of constantly introducing new ones. But then again, I'm really excited to see their versions of X-Men and Fantastic Four and that's true for a big portion of the fan base. It's all a bit of a mess.

I agree with a lot of this.
I said a bit ago that Infinity Saga worked so well because it was character focused. They really got people to care about the characters for the most part. Especially in the first 2 phases. Now it's plot focused and they're introducing so many characters that they introducing so many characters that they don't know what to do with and that don't have a clear role in the story. When looking back at Infinity Saga the only character I think wasn't introduced that well was Captain Marvel (no it's nothing to do with Brie Larson) and how she felt a bit shoehorned in between IW and EG when she could've been introduced earlier in Phase III or even in Phase IV.
There are so many characters that I'm confused how they factor into the saga's plot or when their next major appearance was suppose to be. The Eternals, Kate Bishop (when's her next appearance even supposed to be), Blade, America Chavez, Echo (has a show coming out which I don't really get why), She Hulk (is she gonna stay in her own show pocket or be an Avenger), Moon Knight, and that's just to name a few. They really should've held off on a lot of these characters.

Only thing I'll dispute what you said is LoT not being director focused. From what I could tell, LoT seemed to be a classic case of a director being given waaaaay too much free reign. I know some, not saying you, think that it's always a studio's fault when a movie is bad. But in some cases, especially seen in Netflix original films, they let the director just go wild and I feel that most directors don't know when to say when. The same thing happened with Taika and Thor imo.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Besides GOTG3 and NWH, this phase has been trash. But I think we will get a second peak within the MCU if they can get Maguire and Jackman in Secret Wars

 

[MadVillainy]

Besides GOTG3 and NWH, this phase has been trash. But I think we will get a second peak within the MCU if they can get Maguire and Jackman in Secret Wars

Imo and this might not be popular with us fanboys, but they need more than cameos and bringing back older versions of characters to improve things.
Cameos should not be the make or break for quality or excitement

 

[Venom 1988]

Imo and this might not be popular with us fanboys, but they need more than cameos to improve things.
Cameos should not be the make or break for quality or excitement

I actually agree with this. Not saying every project needs to be bombarded with cameos but a few more sprinkled throughout if it makes sense for the context of the movie. I thought Doctor Strange's cameo in Ragnarok was great. And not sure how people feel about the scene nowadays but I really liked Falcons fight in the 1st Ant-Man. It kind of felt like a tiny Marvel Team Up scene.

IMO things like that help the shared universe feel more connected, especially for characters that may not pop up again for awhile.

 

[MadVillainy]

I actually agree with this. Not saying every project needs to be bombarded with cameos but a few more sprinkled throughout if it makes sense for the context of the movie. I thought Doctor Strange's cameo in Ragnarok was great. And not sure how people feel about the scene nowadays but I really liked Falcons fight in the 1st Ant-Man. It kind of felt like a tiny Marvel Team Up scene.

IMO things like that help the shared universe feel more connected, especially for characters that may not pop up again for awhile.

Small cameos are great and that's what they did for a while. I feel like the Ant-Man/Falcon thing was about as far as I'd go in terms of what's considered a "cameo"

But now it's not just cameos. They're like full roles in the movie. The Spideys in NWH, Logan in Deadpool 3, etc. And it's just a cheap way to get audiences into the movie. I'm not against it completely but the way it's been handled so far makes it feel very forced.

Now it works with stuff like NWH and MoM at least box office wise. But that party trick is gonna get old and they should focus on telling good stories rather than "Look look look! Look who we got back"

Like for instance I'd be way more excited for Deadpool 3 if it was continuing the story of Wade, Cable, and Domino rather than this FOXverse fest

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Jackman and Maguire teaming up is something I have wanted to see for twenty years. It’s hoped for and implied that the story would be good too if indeed another peak for the MCU is to be reached. When someone calls for cameos or character appearances no one in their right mind wants that to mean cameos at the expense of story or character, that’s stupid

 

[MadVillainy]

I nor anyone on this page said that cameos automatically means compromising on story or character. I said nostalgia bait does. And it doesnt have to be, but in many cases recently it has been

 

[Iceman]

Small cameos are great and that's what they did for a while. I feel like the Ant-Man/Falcon thing was about as far as I'd go in terms of what's considered a "cameo"

But now it's not just cameos. They're like full roles in the movie. The Spideys in NWH, Logan in Deadpool 3, etc. And it's just a cheap way to get audiences into the movie. I'm not against it completely but the way it's been handled so far makes it feel very forced.

Now it works with stuff like NWH and MoM at least box office wise. But that party trick is gonna get old and they should focus on telling good stories rather than "Look look look! Look who we got back"

Like for instance I'd be way more excited for Deadpool 3 if it was continuing the story of Wade, Cable, and Domino rather than this FOXverse fest

NWH was a huge gimmick (saying that positively) with a half decent film behind it.

Deadpool is a crazy meta-comedy first, backed by some not-bad-at-all character stuff.

Projects like these and Secret Wars and the whole multiverse aspect make (crazy) cameos natural. I'd hope that after Secret Wars the multiverse stuff is pretty much done and then outside of Deadpool films I'd only want organic appearances of other characters rather than cameos for their own sake.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Yes I think after the multiverse saga wraps up, they could maybe just have two main universes. I don’t need these cameos after the Multiverse saga wraps up. They won’t feel natural otherwise.

This might be an unpopular idea but
I think eventually they will probably want to do an Ultimate Universe. It could inject some life into the franchise in like 10-15 years.

I know the Ultimate Universe has been heavily referenced already in the regular universe, but they could do a more direct adaptation.

 

[psylockolussus]

I hope after the Multiverse saga, I hope they contain the stories in 1 universe/reality. So no Ultimate MCU to me. No more variants/alternate universe after the Multiverse Saga. The comics are wide enough for other stories to get inspiration from, especially the X-Men.

 

[Bayne]

I wouldn't ban variants or alternate universes from ever appearing again after SW, but they definitely should be far less common and I 100% agree there should be only one main universe that the movies follow.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I think after the multiverse saga the focus will be on one main universe. They'll have gotten all the multiversal cameos out of their system then. There are still some ways in which we might some multiverse content in the future, such as
- Maybe they'll still treat Sony's ongoing universe(s) as another universe in the same multiverse since they don't have control over those.
- Maybe they'll do another season of What If...? at some point that's just standalone hypothetical alternate universes with no plans to include anything in the main MCU movies.
- Maybe they'll start doing standalone movies that are completely separate from the MCU like how DC has "Joker" and "The Batman".
- And maybe eventually in 15 years we'll see Age of Apocalypse's Blink lead the Exiles or something like that.
But overall I definitely think after Secret Wars there will not be a second MCU or any major multiverse crossover in the MCU itself for a good long while.

 

[Batgirl0202]

NWH was a huge gimmick (saying that positively) with a half decent film behind it.

Deadpool is a crazy meta-comedy first, backed by some not-bad-at-all character stuff.

Projects like these and Secret Wars and the whole multiverse aspect make (crazy) cameos natural. I'd hope that after Secret Wars the multiverse stuff is pretty much done and then outside of Deadpool films I'd only want organic appearances of other characters rather than cameos for their own sake.

I think after the multiverse saga the focus will be on one main universe. They'll have gotten all the multiversal cameos out of their system then. There are still some ways in which we might some multiverse content in the future, such as
- Maybe they'll still treat Sony's ongoing universe(s) as another universe in the same multiverse since they don't have control over those.
- Maybe they'll do another season of What If...? at some point that's just standalone hypothetical alternate universes with no plans to include anything in the main MCU movies.
- Maybe they'll start doing standalone movies that are completely separate from the MCU like how DC has "Joker" and "The Batman".
- And maybe eventually in 15 years we'll see Age of Apocalypse's Blink lead the Exiles or something like that.
But overall I definitely think after Secret Wars there will not be a second MCU or any major multiverse crossover in the MCU itself for a good long while.

Yeah there's no reason why there can't be one main universe with standalone movies too. Just look at the comics. I've been reading the original Amazing Spider-Man run on Marvel Unlimited and not every issue featured cameos by Thor, Human Torch, Namor, or Iron Man, even though they all existed in the same universe. And that model didn't stop the fans from lapping up each new issue like it was sugar...

I know this is a Marvel thread but I think The Batman is a good recent example of a standalone CBM featuring an iconic character that didn't rely on multiple cameos to bring in audiences. It established the character's mythos and universe and I feel it succeeded on those fronts.

Lately some Marvel films have felt more like entries in a Team-Up franchise. As a fan I enjoy the easter eggs and cameos, provided they make sense within the context of the story. But if adding Hulk to a Thor film or Wolverine to a Deadpool movie keeps getting butts in seats, Marvel has no incentive to stop.

If DP3, Kang Dynasty, and Secret Wars all break the bank, expect to see the cameo-fest continue.

 

[Sean Holmes]

When you say less common, are excluding Sony's early version of Venom acted by actor Topher Grace?

 

[Bayne]

When you say less common, are excluding Sony's early version of Venom acted by actor Topher Grace?

When I say less common, I'm saying that *after* Secret Wars is done the individual films should go back to focusing on the main universe only except in rare cases where a multiverse element would greatly improve the story. That doesn't have anything to do with any specific character being included or not.

Though I personally would not be shedding any tears if Topher Grace never gets an MCU cameo. That was truly godawful casting.

 

[Docker2.0]

IDK how but they really need to fast track X-men. F4 is supposed to be centered around Sue Storm which is why Driver alledgely turned it down but...........is Marvel/Disney really trying to isolate the male audience? I get the need for female heroes but the way they are going about it is not good. Replacing most of the heroes with females and then making the men look dumb......it just isn't smart and I'm reading more and more articles from numerous outlets speak more about this.

 

[Venom 1988]

IDK how but they really need to fast track X-men. F4 is supposed to be centered around Sue Storm which is why Driver alledgely turned it down but...........is Marvel/Disney really trying to isolate the male audience? I get the need for female heroes but the way they are going about it is not good. Replacing most of the heroes with females and then making the men look dumb......it just isn't smart and I'm reading more and more articles from numerous outlets speak more about this.

My dude you always claim to be a "concerned fan" and yet you continue to make incel statements like this. The Sue report is unconfirmed and came from 1 scooper, with a very bad track record (RPK only really gets trailer release dates right, rarely anything else). All other reports are just linking back to this 1 person.

And we don't know why Driver left, only that it had to do with the script. There could be 100 reasons why but I guarantee you it's not cause Sue is allegedly the lead . And even if that is true, why exactly is that bad? This movie is called The Fantastic Four, she has just as much right as the other 3 members. Her being the focal point, doesn't lessen Reed's role or make him dumb.

The male heroes aren't being erased so calm your insecure, fragile mind.

 

[Spider-Fan]

My dude you always claim to be a "concerned fan" and yet you continue to make incel statements like this. The Sue report is unconfirmed and came from 1 scooper, with a very bad track record (RPK only really gets trailer release dates right, rarely anything else). All other reports are just linking back to this 1 person.

And we don't know why Driver left, only that it had to do with the script. There could be 100 reasons why but I guarantee you it's not cause Sue is allegedly the lead . And even if that is true, why exactly is that bad? This movie is called The Fantastic Four, she has just as much right as the other 3 members. Her being the focal point, doesn't lessen Reed's role or make him dumb.

The male heroes aren't being erased so calm your insecure, fragile mind.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So what if Sue ends up being the main character in FF? It doesn't mean the other characters won't be there and they can be focused on in future movies

 

[Docker2.0]

My dude you always claim to be a "concerned fan" and yet you continue to make incel statements like this. The Sue report is unconfirmed and came from 1 scooper, with a very bad track record (RPK only really gets trailer release dates right, rarely anything else). All other reports are just linking back to this 1 person.

And we don't know why Driver left, only that it had to do with the script. There could be 100 reasons why but I guarantee you it's not cause Sue is allegedly the lead . And even if that is true, why exactly is that bad? This movie is called The Fantastic Four, she has just as much right as the other 3 members. Her being the focal point, doesn't lessen Reed's role or make him dumb.

The male heroes aren't being erased so calm your insecure, fragile mind.

it's crazy how if ANYONE says something that A LOT of people are saying that you get labeled something. MCU audience has indeed shrunk, their last couple of shows have bombed as well as their movies except GoTG3 but yet if ANYONE says ANYTHING about the elephant in the room except that it is all good, they get labeled. Call me whatever name you want and it's crazy how the mods allow that to happen but the audience is very small for legacy heroes that no one knows or cares about and forced and not natural story telling. I stand by what I said and know it's true because the numbers don't lie despite all the fanatics getting in their feelings. Next bomb up: the Marvels! Dare I say Loki as well.

 

[Venom 1988]

it's crazy how if ANYONE says something that A LOT of people are saying that you get labeled something. MCU audience has indeed shrunk, their last couple of shows have bombed as well as their movies except GoTG3 but yet if ANYONE says ANYTHING about the elephant in the room except that it is all good, they get labeled. Call me whatever name you want and it's crazy how the mods allow that to happen but the audience is very small for legacy heroes that no one knows or cares about and forced and not natural story telling. I stand by what I said and know it's true because the numbers don't lie despite all the fanatics getting in their feelings. Next bomb up: the Marvels! Dare I say Loki as well.

That's a lot of word salad that amounts to nothing. For the umpteenth time, you seem to think I'm calling you out for criticizing the MCU. Newsflash I'm not. If you want to have criticism about the writing, character development, no clear road map, rushed projects or anything else I don't care. In fact, I've criticized the MCU many times as of late. However the moment your criticisms consist of things like male erasure, MSheU or any other incel talk, I call BS. I have zero tolerance for that crap.

If you get so hot and bothered by me calling out, you're free to stop at any time. I imagine there's plenty of echo chambers on the internet that will welcome your thoughts.

 

[Docker2.0]

So now it's incel talk to want to see a F4 movie about the team rather than Sue? Or a Moon Knight show but rather Scarab is the star? Or Loki in his show............I guess that's wrong.