The Israel-Palestine Politics Thread II

No true Christian would applaud what Hamas had done nor the extreme Jewish response. :cmad:
 
squeekness said:
No true Christian would applaud what Hamas had done nor the extreme Jewish response. :cmad:
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I'm Jewish, and I think that, all oppressed peoples have a right to violent resistance. That includes what Hamas did and it is not our role in the safe West to engage in moral equivocation between oppressed and oppressor.

Hamas, or someone in Gaza had to act, as they were facing annihilation. Israel/US were succeeding in erasing the Palestinians. They might still succeed, but the Palestinians are choosing not to go down without a fight.
 
I get why Hamas is mad, but it doesn't excuse raping and hostage taking and the cruelty of what they did. It only invites an equally cruel or even worse cruel response which is what they got. It solves nothing. :(
 
squeekness said:
I get why Hamas is mad, but it doesn't excuse raping and hostage taking and the cruelty of what they did. It only invites an equally cruel or even worse cruel response which is what they got. It solves nothing. :(
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The mass rapes looks to be a case of propaganda. Western media prayed on the centuries-old fear of men of color laying a finger on white women and people bought it.

As for what October 7th solves -- they're doing significant damage to Israel, and put the issue of Palestinian statehood back on the table.
 
DA_Champion said:
I'm Jewish, and I think that, all oppressed peoples have a right to violent resistance. That includes what Hamas did and it is not our role in the safe West to engage in moral equivocation between oppressed and oppressor.

Hamas, or someone in Gaza had to act, as they were facing annihilation. Israel/US were succeeding in erasing the Palestinians. They might still succeed, but the Palestinians are choosing not to go down without a fight.
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Terrorist just provide an opportunity for fascist to rise to absolute power.

The two sides feed off each other.
 
DA_Champion said:
A lot of important donors support Israel. If any one of Biden, Trump, or Kennedy veers, the other two could see a substantial funding increase.
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But 80% of your voters thinking Biden is totally wrong is substantial.

Surely not all of those people will tolerate genocide and it wouldn't take much of that 80% to give the election to Trump.
 
MessiahDecoy123 said:
Terrorist just provide an opportunity for fascist to rise to absolute power.

The two sides feed off each other.
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So what would you have them do? How can they resist?

MessiahDecoy123 said:
But 80% of your voters thinking Biden is totally wrong is substantial.

Surely not all of those people will tolerate genocide and it wouldn't take much of that 80% to give the election to Trump.
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I both agree and disagree with you.

Like I see all of your points, but at the same time, if pro-Zionism donors like Haim Saban, Michael Bloomberg, and Donald Sussman vacate the Democratic party, that will be catastrophic.

I think that Saban might be the largest donor to the Democratic party, or was recently.
 
DA_Champion said:
So what would you have them do? How can they resist?



I both agree and disagree with you.

Like I see all of your points, but at the same time, if pro-Zionism donors like Haim Saban, Michael Bloomberg, and Donald Sussman vacate the Democratic party, that will be catastrophic.

I think that Saban might be the largest donor to the Democratic party, or was recently.
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You resist by targeting the Isreali government/mlitary and avoid civilians.

These would cause outsiders to reflect on who is truly the monster.
 
DA_Champion said:
So what would you have them do? How can they resist?



I both agree and disagree with you.

Like I see all of your points, but at the same time, if pro-Zionism donors like Haim Saban, Michael Bloomberg, and Donald Sussman vacate the Democratic party, that will be catastrophic.

I think that Saban might be the largest donor to the Democratic party, or was recently.
Click to expand...
You resist by targeting the Isreali government/mlitary and avoiding civilians.

These would cause outsiders to reflect on who is truly the monster, Isreal or the Palestinians.

How much money does Biden need? He's already destroying Trump in raised funds.

The padding he gets from a few Jewish businessmen won't help if he loses Wisconsin or Michigan. The money is needed to convince people to back Biden. Isn't it cheaper to simply change course in Gaza. That's 80% of your voters elated their on the right side of history and they're no longer complicit in ethnic cleansing.
 
MessiahDecoy123 said:
You resist by targeting the Isreali government/mlitary and avoiding civilians.

These would cause outsiders to reflect on who is truly the monster, Isreal or the Palestinians.

How much money does Biden need? He's already destroying Trump in raised funds.

The padding he gets from a few Jewish businessmen won't help if he loses Wisconsin or Michigan. The money is needed to convince people to back Biden. Isn't it cheaper to simply change course in Gaza. That's 80% of your voters elated their on the right side of history and they're no longer complicit in ethnic cleansing.
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1) The Palestinians are the weaker party. They don't have the means to credibly attack Israeli military bases. They were also being ignored prior to October 7th. They were being erased. Biden's national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, celebrated one week before October 7th that the middle east had not been this quiet in decades. Israel was going to harvest the natural gas off Gaza 's coast and was going to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia.

2) I think you're underestimating the quantity of Zionist donor money. What happens if Biden stops supporting Israel, hundreds of millions get transferred to Trump and Kennedy?

All three candidates are deferential to Zionism.
 
MessiahDecoy123 said:
But 80% of your voters thinking Biden is totally wrong is substantial.

Surely not all of those people will tolerate genocide and it wouldn't take much of that 80% to give the election to Trump.
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What's wrong with that thinking is that Trump will only speed the genocide more quickly. He's said it out loud. Voting for Trump doesn't help Gaza at all. :(
 
Another factor that Biden, Trump, and Kennedy is that they believe that brown lives are inherently less valuable. They may simply be unable to cognitively register the horror of oppressing brown people.


 
DA_Champion said:
1) The Palestinians are the weaker party. They don't have the means to credibly attack Israeli military bases. They were also being ignored prior to October 7th. They were being erased. Biden's national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, celebrated one week before October 7th that the middle east had not been this quiet in decades. Israel was going to harvest the natural gas off Gaza 's coast and was going to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia.

2) I think you're underestimating the quantity of Zionist donor money. What happens if Biden stops supporting Israel, hundreds of millions get transferred to Trump and Kennedy?

All three candidates are deferential to Zionism.
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Saying you're too weak to fight the Isreali military so you murder women and children is beyond cowardice. You gain no sympathy and no one cares how Isreal deals with you. You just look like ISIS committing atrocities toward innocent people. In fact, October 7th's brutal attack is used endlessly to justify killing exponentially higher Palestinians. Zionist bring it up every time.

Okay what percentage of Biden's campaign money is from Zionist? If it's not something insane like 30% I say screw them. You know what's a thousand times more effective than ad money? Biden has a press conference where he states Isreal won't get another dime unless the genocide and ethnic cleansing ends. He'd be up instantly by 6 in every swing state guaranteed. It would show integrity, bravery, compassion and self respect. Young voters and Muslims would be shocked by the reversal.
 
MessiahDecoy123 said:
Saying you're too weak to fight the Isreali military so you murder women and children is beyond cowardice. You gain no sympathy and no one cares how Isreal deals with you. You just look like ISIS committing atrocities toward innocent people. In fact, October 7th's brutal attack is used endlessly to justify killing exponentially higher Palestinians. Zionist bring it up every time.
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Honestly, who are you or who is anybody else here to call them cowards? The only alternative they had was to quietly die, to walk off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings. Zionists indeed bring up October 7th as a justification, but the reality is that they've been genociding the Palestinians for decades, and nobody cared. The whole leadership of the world was either indifferent to it or supportive of the genocide. Now the issue of Palestinian statehood is back on the international agenda.

MessiahDecoy123 said:
Okay what percentage of Biden's campaign money is from Zionist? If it's not something insane like 30% I say screw them. You know what's a thousand times more effective than ad money? Biden has a press conference where he states Isreal won't get another dime unless the genocide and ethnic cleansing ends. He'd be up instantly by 6 in every swing state guaranteed. It would show integrity, bravery, compassion and self respect. Young voters and Muslims would be shocked by the reversal.
Click to expand...

I don't know what percentage of money is from zionist billionaires.

Your proposed solution sounds simple, but yet none of Trump, Biden, or Kennedy implements it. Isn't that kind of perplexing? If it's as simple as supportive the public will, at least one of them, probably all three would demand limits, but they're not doing it. They're all supporting it, all three of them, and one needs to excruciatingly over-analyze language in order to identify a difference in their positions. They're more similar on the Israel-Palestinian issue than they are on most issues. That's difficult to explain, in my opinion.

My honest best guess is it's a combination of money from donors, and white supremacy.
 
DA_Champion said:
Honestly, who are you or who is anybody else here to call them cowards? The only alternative they had was to quietly die, to walk off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings. Zionists indeed bring up October 7th as a justification, but the reality is that they've been genociding the Palestinians for decades, and nobody cared. The whole leadership of the world was either indifferent to it or supportive of the genocide. Now the issue of Palestinian statehood is back on the international agenda.



I don't know what percentage of money is from zionist billionaires.

Your proposed solution sounds simple, but yet none of Trump, Biden, or Kennedy implements it. Isn't that kind of perplexing? If it's as simple as supportive the public will, at least one of them, probably all three would demand limits, but they're not doing it. They're all supporting it, all three of them, and one needs to excruciatingly over-analyze language in order to identify a difference in their positions. They're more similar on the Israel-Palestinian issue than they are on most issues. That's difficult to explain, in my opinion.

My honest best guess is it's a combination of money from donors, and white supremacy.
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Yes walking off a cliff is preferable to murdering women and children.

Like way preferable.

Or join forces with sympathetic Isrealis, and global students and march/protest for a two state solution.
 
MessiahDecoy123 said:
Yes walking off a cliff is preferable to murdering women and children.

Like way preferable.

Or join forces with sympathetic Isrealis, and global students and march/protest for a two state solution.
Click to expand...
1) Easy to say when it's somebody else.

2) The marches don't do anything by themselves.
 
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