MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[InCali]

The Inedible Bulk

 

[Batmannerism]

Hulk is too powerful for the original 5 Guardians...
But, if the Guardians have Mantis they have the one thing that can neutralize the Hulk, possibly long enough for Rocket to put a bomb in his mouth and blow his head off, yuck !

 

[InCali]

Hulk is too powerful for the original 5 Guardians...
But, if the Guardians have Mantis they have the one thing that can neutralize the Hulk, possibly long enough for Rocket to put a bomb in his mouth and blow his head off, yuck !

A little guacamole on the side.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

The Inedible Bulk

A little guacamole on the side.

Does that count as cannibalism?

 

[metaphysician]

Punisher vs Taserface:

I mean, its *possible* Taserface may be too durable for Frank to hurt, as some aliens are, but there is no direct evidence for it. And also, he's an idiot. Honestly, even if he *is* too bricky for conventional guns to kill, I could easily see him doing something stupid and overconfident that gives Frank a chance to steal one of Taserface's weapons.

Hulk vs Guardians of the Galaxy:

I give this to the Guardians more often than not, especially with this roster and this version of the Hulk. The Guardians have two bricks who, while less bricky than the Hulk, should be able to tank him at least adequately, and between Gamora's sword and Rocket's various oversized weapons, they should be able to hurt the Hulk, too. If this were the Professor Hulk or Gladiator Hulk, someone with enough intelligence or battle savvy to spot and upend those issues, maybe it would be different, but this is basically the version of the Hulk that is both weakest and stupidest. Guardians 7/10, minimum.

 

[Docker2.0]

Punisher vs Taserface:

I mean, its *possible* Taserface may be too durable for Frank to hurt, as some aliens are, but there is no direct evidence for it. And also, he's an idiot. Honestly, even if he *is* too bricky for conventional guns to kill, I could easily see him doing something stupid and overconfident that gives Frank a chance to steal one of Taserface's weapons.

Hulk vs Guardians of the Galaxy:

I give this to the Guardians more often than not, especially with this roster and this version of the Hulk. The Guardians have two bricks who, while less bricky than the Hulk, should be able to tank him at least adequately, and between Gamora's sword and Rocket's various oversized weapons, they should be able to hurt the Hulk, too. If this were the Professor Hulk or Gladiator Hulk, someone with enough intelligence or battle savvy to spot and upend those issues, maybe it would be different, but this is basically the version of the Hulk that is both weakest and stupidest. Guardians 7/10, minimum.

Thank you! The GoTG took down a huge interdimensional being but now we are saying the Hulk is to much?! People are really underselling the Guardians!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

If this were the Professor Hulk or Gladiator Hulk, someone with enough intelligence or battle savvy to spot and upend those issues, maybe it would be different, but this is basically the version of the Hulk that is both weakest and stupidest.

This version of Hulk had to fight soldiers, and he held back a lot. Him knowing where to smash the jeep so the two soldiers in it got out without getting hurt is not a sign of stupidity, and he had to go easy on them. And like I said about the climax, he was weakened temporarily by the serum, but he knew what he was doing in the fight like kneeing Abomination to be able to get past him and douse the flames.

If you want stupidest Hulk then that actually goes to the one in Ragnarok, he's just a walking brick that uses force and instantly jumped on Surtur without thinking.

Thank you! The GoTG took down a huge interdimensional being but now we are saying the Hulk is to much?! People are really underselling the Guardians!

They took the creature down because Peter and Gamora figured its vulnerable point, and the team got into a lot of trouble trying to hurt it before that happened. Hulk wouldn't give them that chance, and he runs through the trees Drax was bumped into shattering them.

 

[Batmannerism]

Thank you! The GoTG took down a huge interdimensional being but now we are saying the Hulk is to much?! People are really underselling the Guardians!

To be fair, that was an interdimensional being with the equivalent of the thermal exhaust port on the Death Star.

Punisher vs Taserface:

I mean, its *possible* Taserface may be too durable for Frank to hurt, as some aliens are, but there is no direct evidence for it. And also, he's an idiot. Honestly, even if he *is* too bricky for conventional guns to kill, I could easily see him doing something stupid and overconfident that gives Frank a chance to steal one of Taserface's weapons.

Hulk vs Guardians of the Galaxy:

I give this to the Guardians more often than not, especially with this roster and this version of the Hulk. The Guardians have two bricks who, while less bricky than the Hulk, should be able to tank him at least adequately, and between Gamora's sword and Rocket's various oversized weapons, they should be able to hurt the Hulk, too. If this were the Professor Hulk or Gladiator Hulk, someone with enough intelligence or battle savvy to spot and upend those issues, maybe it would be different, but this is basically the version of the Hulk that is both weakest and stupidest. Guardians 7/10, minimum.

Sir, I must dispute your claim based on the combatants' observed feats:

1) Groot: given that both Gamora and Drax are able to rip up Groot's tendrils, I doubt Hulk would take less than a few seconds to tear him into splinters.

2) Quill: while a master of tactics, once the fight starts Other than momentary distraction, Qulll isn't much use.

3) Drax: What observed strength feats does Drax have that suggest he can even inconvenience Hulk ? He might be able to survive a direct hit or two from Hulk, but I suggest that that is it - based on how poorly he fared against Ronan.
He might be able to restrain one of Hulk's legs , as he did with Thanos but otherwise his ability to do much more than distract is limited.

4) Gamora, given her pathetic feats in GOTG VOL 1, against everyone but Nebula.... I can't see her as much of a threat. Her sword injured Thanos - in an illusory reality, so its difficult to say what actual effect it might have in the really real world. Assuming it can injure Hulk, he heals very very quickly and she could not handle a direct strike from Hulk ( especially given her lack of durability feats in Vol 1 - remember how she nearly got shanked in the prison showers).

5) Rocket: Its a big assumption that his weapons could harm Hulk at all. Do we have any observed feats of his guns harming anything of Hulk's durability ? Not really. He was able to construct a bomb, capable of destroying Ego's core - but only with the harbulary batteries ( joke intended). Not really his standard equipment. Certainly not in vol 1.


Add in Yondu and Mantis and I think the Guardians might have a shot, but without them I can't see any feats that support the idea that they can defeat the Hulk. While this is the least powerful MCU version of the Hulk, he still has sufficient feats in his film to crush them.

 

[Luigi]

Hulk smash , Hulk smash GOTG.

Don't gloat yet. Let's see what that second weekend will do. But I stand by my Eternals BO predictions. That ish will bomb hard AF!

I'm inclined to agree with this since the trailers haven't done much for me. Might skip this one.

 

[Docker2.0]

Hulk wins. Next up:

Captain America and Sam

vs the Juggernaut

Who you got peeps?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I'm gonna guess the duo of Cap and Falcon can't take down a JUGGERNAUT.
No lightning to the seating trick this time.

 

[Batmannerism]

Well...not sure how they can hurt Juggernaut. But unsure how Juggernaut could land a blow on him.

In a straight up fight Juggy is way too strong and tough for them, but Cap isn't dumb enough to fight him straight up.

Spider Man beat the Juggernaut once by tricking him into burying himself under so much concrete that he took months to dig himself out.

Cap is smart enough to do the same - so not win by overpowering or direct fighting but by trickery and tactical maneuvering.

Cap and Sam win.

 

[InCali]

I'll say Cap and Sam.

 

[metaphysician]

Juggernaut vs Cap and Falcon:

Look, I love Steve Rogers, I love Sam Wilson. They have nothing they can actually do here. I mean, could Falcon stay out of reach forever? Sure. Could Cap last a damn long time in melee, occupying Juggernaut's attention? Sure. But neither of them is going to do the slightest bit of damage to the guy. The only way they could possibly win is if you spotted them a stupidly-biased arena, with a bottomless pit on one side and a "free to a good home" crate of mutant power suppressors on the other.

 

[Luigi]

Juggernaut

It'll be Deadpool vs Colossus all over again. They have no way of harming him.

Also, having seen Shang-Chi, have to say that they did my boy Blonsky dirty.

 

[Bayne]

Cap and Sam. Characters like the Juggernaut pretty much always lose due to strategy and intelligence because they're almost always fighting people who technically can't hurt them directly.

Meanwhile, the movie versions of Juggernaut made the comics Juggy look absolutely brilliant by comparison. Captain America and Falcon should easily be able to outwit him.

 

[metaphysician]

You can outwit an opponent all you want, and it won't matter if you can't actually *do* anything to them. Which again, unless the arena is laughably biased, they can't.

If this were Cap, while he were wielding Mjolnir, sure, it'd be a different story. If you let Sam break into an Air Force base and steal the War Machine armor, *maybe* it might open up some options. But that. . . really isn't the case here.

 

[Docker2.0]

Juggernaut FINALLY wins a match! FINALLY!! Next up:

Shang Chi

vs Spiderman

Who you got peeps?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I haven't watched Shang Chi yet, but since he trained Spider-Man on Kung Fu (probably Jeet Kun Do, the most used fighting style in these stories) in the comics a decade ago I will be an assuming person and vote SHANG CHI.

 

[Luigi]

If this is Shang-Chi sans the rings, then Peter is going to run circles around him.

Spider-Man

 

[InCali]

Spider Man....and I've actually seen both the movies.

 

[Batmannerism]

Juggernaut FINALLY wins a match! FINALLY!! Next up:

Shang Chi

vs Spiderman

Who you got peeps?

Shang Chi, without his magic rings vs Spider Man?

No matter what kind of martial arts skills he has, he's still human - although the current trend in MCU films is to ignore this ( e.g Black Widow takes hits and impacts that would kill a human a bunch of times, but as my favorite Youtuber says " Nah, it'll be fine!).

Anyway, Spider Man is superhumanly fast, strong and tough enough to get hit by a train and only need a nap. He should kick SC's ass easily.

Spider Man.

 

[Batmannerism]

You can outwit an opponent all you want, and it won't matter if you can't actually *do* anything to them. Which again, unless the arena is laughably biased, they can't.

If this were Cap, while he were wielding Mjolnir, sure, it'd be a different story. If you let Sam break into an Air Force base and steal the War Machine armor, *maybe* it might open up some options. But that. . . really isn't the case here.

Stronger characters being defeated by weaker ones is a comic book trope. I suppose it really depends on what you call "victory".
In this case there's probably nothing Cap or Falcon can do that will physically harm Juggernaut.

The XMen have beaten Juggy a bunch of times without being able to physically harm him either - in terms of actually beating him down, it doesn't happen very often, even Hulk has struggled to do that . But they have still managed to "win" against him ( usually stopping him from obtaining something or harming someone).

If the conditions of this fight are such that only a physical beatdown is a win, and completely neutral terrain ( like a big featureless room with unbreakable walls and floors and no escape routes) then Juggernaut will win.

However, if this fight occurs in an urban setting, then it might be a different story:

 

[metaphysician]

Shang-Chi vs Spider-man:

Okay, I'm going to assume this is Shang-Chi without the rings or any Ta-Lo gear, and Spider-man with his "normal" Starktech suit, since that is what is shown in the pictures. Given that? Spider-man should win. Shang-Chi is good, real good. He's good enough I'd say he is the best martial artist in the MCU ( outside of other characters in his own story ), and good enough to actually be in the same weight class as super soldier types ( if at the lower end compared to someone like Steve Rogers ). That just isn't good enough against Spider-man, sadly, mainly because Peter has too many ranged attack options, and Shang-Chi just doesn't have many good counters to webbing. He can't catch it, he can't parry it, its hard to dodge it if its an area webbing attack, and he's not strong enough to just break it. 10/10 for Spidey, Shang-Chi just doesn't have the right tools for this match.

If you dropped them both naked in a boxing ring, it'd be a *little* better for Shang-Chi, but not great. Peter is a bit of a glass cannon as people in his weight class go, but while he's less skilled than Shang-Chi he's also superhumanly enhanced in agility and reflexes, the same area that Shang would otherwise be using as his own advantage. 8-9/10 to Spidey, with Shang-Chi winning a couple because he landed *all* his dodges and parries until Peter was worn down.

If you spotted Shang-Chi some Ta-Lo gear, *then* it becomes more competitive. A dragon staff gives him both a means to much more quickly hurt Spidey if he lands an attack, and a means to plausibly parry and cut webbing. I'd still say Spidey wins 6/10, but its a lot closer.

And naturally, if you give Shang-Chi the Ten Rings, well, he's basically going to win all the time, due to now being an entire power tier *above* where Spider-man lives.

 

[Batmannerism]

Shang-Chi vs Spider-man:

Okay, I'm going to assume this is Shang-Chi without the rings or any Ta-Lo gear, and Spider-man with his "normal" Starktech suit, since that is what is shown in the pictures. Given that? Spider-man should win. Shang-Chi is good, real good. He's good enough I'd say he is the best martial artist in the MCU ( outside of other characters in his own story ), and good enough to actually be in the same weight class as super soldier types ( if at the lower end compared to someone like Steve Rogers ). That just isn't good enough against Spider-man, sadly, mainly because Peter has too many ranged attack options, and Shang-Chi just doesn't have many good counters to webbing. He can't catch it, he can't parry it, its hard to dodge it if its an area webbing attack, and he's not strong enough to just break it. 10/10 for Spidey, Shang-Chi just doesn't have the right tools for this match.

Martial arts skills, no matter how amazing, do not make a person superhuman - although this is a common conceit in Kung fu films.

Remember how Karli, a relatively unskilled super soldier killed a highly trained spec ops soldier with a single punch?

Shang Chi might be able to avoid dying right away, but against any super soldier he's dead meat eventually. John Walker would break him in half, Cap or Bucky are going to crush him easily.

Spider Man is physically stronger than super soldiers, if he hits Shang chi once, its fight over - the tech suit is just overkill.

If you dropped them both naked in a boxing ring, it'd be a *little* better for Shang-Chi, but not great. Peter is a bit of a glass cannon as people in his weight class go, but while he's less skilled than Shang-Chi he's also superhumanly enhanced in agility and reflexes, the same area that Shang would otherwise be using as his own advantage. 8-9/10 to Spidey, with Shang-Chi winning a couple because he landed *all* his dodges and parries until Peter was worn down.

I am disappointed in you- as a guy who generally makes logical points based on observed feats. My friend you are demonstrably wrong about the "glass cannon" here

Look at Peter's durability feats:
- Peter survives being hit by a TGV train, at speed, with minimal injuries. If Shang Chi had a similar experience, he'd be reduced to paste.

Spider Man can feel pain but he takes full on kicks from Captain America and doesn't die or get KO'd.
The impact of Giant Man's arm hitting him and knocking him into a pile of crates would have easily killed a human being.

Shang Chi might have wonderfully flashy punches and kicks but they aren't going to do anything to Spidey.

If you spotted Shang-Chi some Ta-Lo gear, *then* it becomes more competitive. A dragon staff gives him both a means to much more quickly hurt Spidey if he lands an attack, and a means to plausibly parry and cut webbing. I'd still say Spidey wins 6/10, but its a lot closer.

And naturally, if you give Shang-Chi the Ten Rings, well, he's basically going to win all the time, due to now being an entire power tier *above* where Spider-man lives.

The Ten Rings I can only describe as having magical plot bull**** powers - they are a plot device that allow the writers to do whatever they need them to do to make the plot happen.

I might point out that Shang Chi's mom beat his dad ( with the ten rings) and if she's only human than Spidey is a lot faster, stronger and tougher than she is, victory for Shang is not a foregone conclusion at all.

So, in summary, I disagree.