Comics Amazing Spider-Man #800

[UltimateWebhead]

Wait, Renew Your Vows is ending?! See...this is why I no longer care to have a pull list anywhere.

I'll read ASM for a bit, if for no other reason than Ottley's artwork, but aside from that and the new Venom series (which I am loving), I'm becoming more about back issues lately.

grumble grumble cancelling Renew Your Vows grumble grumble

RYV ending is not necessarily a bad thing. While I definitely enjoyed the initial arcs with Conway/Stegman running the book, it definitely took a turn for the worse with the time jump and the creative team switch-up. Houser isn't a bad writer but they took away the focus of the book from what made it so great in the first place. Seeing Peter with MJ and going through the day to day issues of life while bringing up a super-powered little one was the dynamic that made it so successful. Once they lost that, they lost the audience and the sales dropped.

RYV is an alt universe title so we knew going in that it was gonna end at some point. However, the fact that it lasted 2 years is pretty darn good considering most alt titles don't make it nearly as long.

The other positive to take away from RYV ending is that while the book is in production, Marvel could always point to RYV as the book fans should read or could pick up and read who were fans of the marriage or at least seeing Peter and MJ together. Now that RYV is going away, Marvel can no longer use that book for that excuse anymore. This could lead into reuniting Peter and MJ in the main continuity. CB has already stated he has "big plans" for MJ. A build-up to undoing OMD is always a possibility. But I think it should also be mentioned that the super powered MJ in RYV aka Spinneret is going to be featured in the upcoming Fall Spidey event, Spidergeddon.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

The other positive to take away from RYV ending is that while the book is in production, Marvel could always point to RYV as the book fans should read or could pick up and read who were fans of the marriage or at least seeing Peter and MJ together. Now that RYV is going away, Marvel can no longer use that book for that excuse anymore. This could lead into reuniting Peter and MJ in the main continuity. CB has already stated he has "big plans" for MJ. A build-up to undoing OMD is always a possibility. But I think it should also be mentioned that the super powered MJ in RYV aka Spinneret is going to be featured in the upcoming Fall Spidey event, Spidergeddon.

This is what I'm hoping (not including Spidergeddon thing, I'm tired of them diluting Peter's uniqueness with all these Spider people).

 

[UltimateWebhead]

This is what I'm hoping (not including Spidergeddon thing, I'm tired of them diluting Peter's uniqueness with all these Spider people).

I won't disagree with you however it's possible to have multiple Spider-people without taking away from the importance of Peter Parker. Unfortunately Dan Slott was never able to grasp that concept. Batman is a perfect example. Other Bat people exist but Bruce Wayne is given the preferred treatment.

With regard to MJ, what I'm hoping for is a well built story that over time shows their reconciliation and more importantly gets back to why their relationship is so special.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I won't disagree with you however it's possible to have multiple Spider-people without taking away from the importance of Peter Parker. Unfortunately Dan Slott was never able to grasp that concept. Batman is a perfect example. Other Bat people exist but Bruce Wayne is given the preferred treatment.

With regard to MJ, what I'm hoping for is a well built story that over time shows their reconciliation and more importantly gets back to why their relationship is so special.

Definitely agree, particularly the MJ part.

 

[dkamphaus43]

There won't be any reconciliation between Peter and MJ. That's dead and buried at this point. And whatever Spencer's alleged plans for MJ are, I seriously doubt they'll have anything to do with mending the rift between the 2 characters, much less undoing OMD. Marvel doesn't want the characters together and views their relationship as an albatross, and I haven't seen any indication that they've changed their stance on the matter. And before you bring up RNV, that's in an alternate continuity that has no affect on the regular 616 universe.

 

[shinlyle]

RYV ending is not necessarily a bad thing. While I definitely enjoyed the initial arcs with Conway/Stegman running the book, it definitely took a turn for the worse with the time jump and the creative team switch-up. Houser isn't a bad writer but they took away the focus of the book from what made it so great in the first place. Seeing Peter with MJ and going through the day to day issues of life while bringing up a super-powered little one was the dynamic that made it so successful. Once they lost that, they lost the audience and the sales dropped.

RYV is an alt universe title so we knew going in that it was gonna end at some point. However, the fact that it lasted 2 years is pretty darn good considering most alt titles don't make it nearly as long.

The other positive to take away from RYV ending is that while the book is in production, Marvel could always point to RYV as the book fans should read or could pick up and read who were fans of the marriage or at least seeing Peter and MJ together. Now that RYV is going away, Marvel can no longer use that book for that excuse anymore. This could lead into reuniting Peter and MJ in the main continuity. CB has already stated he has "big plans" for MJ. A build-up to undoing OMD is always a possibility. But I think it should also be mentioned that the super powered MJ in RYV aka Spinneret is going to be featured in the upcoming Fall Spidey event, Spidergeddon.

Well, as soon as I fell in love with RYV, I resigned to myself the fact that it would be cancelled. It just seems to go that way since the OMD fiasco.

Spider-Girl...cancelled, new series, cancelled again, new series again, cancelled again, back-up in Spider-Man Family, cancelled again, brought back in Spider-Verse only to have her world destroyed and then she was ignored again....
Also, Spider-Man Family had the "Mr. and Mrs. Spider-Man" stories in the back-up that were SO GOOD.

With Renew Your Vows, they took the creative team, and gradually split them up, mixed it up, and then that time-jump...ugh. It has still been good and enjoyable, but I wanted to know what happened in those 8 years!!

Either way, I'm looking forward to Ottley's part in the upcoming ASM relaunch! Spencer...not as much. He's very much a mixed bag. Sometimes he gives you "Superior Foes", and other times, you get "Secret Empire".

 

[Ben_Reilly]

Spider-Girl in Spider-Verse is not the same Spider-Girl we were reading all those years.

There's an interview out there with Ron, Pat and Tom and they explained why it wasn't her.

 

[Ben_Reilly]

I liked Secret Empire... Or rather, the Captain America issues building up to the event. Then the event happened and tanked. All that buildup and nothing really happened.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I liked Secret Empire... Or rather, the Captain America issues building up to the event. Then the event happened and tanked. All that buildup and nothing really happened.

Which is pretty much the synopsis of every Marvel event that has occurred recently. Always being touted with phrases like "Nothing will ever be the same again!" "This will surely be a gamechanger!"--yet nothing actually happens. It wasn't just the saturation of so many events that turned off fans but the outcome of the events that lead nowhere. Another year and another bunch of new beginnings.

 

[shinlyle]

Which is pretty much the synopsis of every Marvel event that has occurred recently. Always being touted with phrases like "Nothing will ever be the same again!" "This will surely be a gamechanger!"--yet nothing actually happens. It wasn't just the saturation of so many events that turned off fans but the outcome of the events that lead nowhere. Another year and another bunch of new beginnings.

Which is why I haven't read one since Avengers Vs. X-Men. THAT was fun. Secret Invasion (before AVX, I know), Fear Itself, and everything else just...no.

I think that's why I read so few comics, nowadays. I want to buy them, but they are either unrecognizable versions of heroes I remember, watered down beyond repair, or they are so just a writer's soapbox that occasionally stars a superhero.

And at $4-5 a pop, I'm going to be quite picky.

 

[Ben_Reilly]

For me, Spider-Man truly ends with The Final chapter.

After that, it's all just mostly crap and Alternate Universe crap.

The only good thing to come of all this is that Ben and Kaine are back, but they even managed to mess those up.
At least PAD is writing Ben, so there's some hope. Kaine has mostly been ignored.

 

[shinlyle]

For me, Spider-Man truly ends with The Final chapter.

After that, it's all just mostly crap and Alternate Universe crap.

The only good thing to come of all this is that Ben and Kaine are back, but they even managed to mess those up.
At least PAD is writing Ben, so there's some hope. Kaine has mostly been ignored.

I loved the Scarlet Spider Kaine series...but it was sadly short-lived.

I enjoyed the Jenkins run on PPSM, and I loved the JMS stuff UNTIL Sins Past. There were a few fun times during/after Civil War...but I quit reading until Slott took over with Big Time, which I loved, and then Superior was fun...and then we got back to Peter, and it just didn't work anymore.

Slott's best Spider-Man story will always be Spider-man/Human Torch and the issue of She-Hulk he wrote with Spidey in it. I bear him no ill will, and I wish him all the best, but it was past time for him to move on.

 

[Ben_Reilly]

The lead up to Superior and everything since has been, for me, crap.

Scott long overstayed his welcome

 

[shinlyle]

The lead up to Superior and everything since has been, for me, crap.

Scott long overstayed his welcome

I'll never say it was all crap, but I think my main problem with Slott's run is the problem I have with any long run: At some point, when an out-of-character turn happens, there should be someone from editorial who comes in and says "NO"!

Back in MY DAYS (and...I'm old), Spider-Man's problems centered around his personal life, not his superheroing. It made for the best drama. In the 80s and 90s, you could have some awesome and interesting stories that just revolved around Peter Parker, and then throw some villains in it, and it was golden. Even the mediocre stories were fun and entertaining pre-Clone Saga.

After the Clone Saga, everything was about big overarching narratives to the point that we may as well only buy trades. Paul Jenkins was probably the last writer to really write one and done stories with ANY real flair or focus on Peter. Sales were low, so Marvel started making him write crap like Disassembled. Still, his first issue of Peter Parker Spider-man and his last Spidey issue of Spectacular Spider-man, were on point, and fit together perfectly.

Another weird example would be Bendis on Ultimate. The villains were cool, but Peter was the focus. Of course, I'm referring to the Parker issues, I never read the Miles stuff, although I heard good things.

There just needs to be only so far the heroes should be written differently before they are pulled back. Yeah, it won't be "THE NEXT BIG THING", but at least readers can pick up a comic and it feel like something they wanted, versus each of the Parker industries stories, where I found Peter to be a stranger.

 

[Ben_Reilly]

Scott had some good ideas, yes, but his writing and execution were terrible.

Gage should have been the next Amazing Spider-Man writer.



Anyway, I loved the idea of Pete having a business. It finally moved the character forward again. Unfortunately, the execution was crap, and it was taken away.



Now we get to see Peter homeless and bumming rooms off of people again. We saw this in the 70's. We saw this in the 2000s. This is just utter crap.


Spider-Man is a vastly broken character.

Anything done to move him forward will just be undone by the current writer at the end of their run, or by the one coming in.

 

[The Joker]

Best thing about this issue was the cliffhanger of Doc Ock being in a new body with a new alias. Opens up all kinds of intriguing possibilities.

 

[Ben_Reilly]

*slott

 

[MurkeNyou]

Not normally a fan of Slotts ideas, but Red Goblin really clicked for me. I thought it was great, wish we see it again.

 

[Will Nolte]

I like that Slott consolidated a lot of characters. Giving Phil his own identity as Goblin King instead of the the 2nd Hobgoblin while Kingsley was still running around was a good thing. Sucks that we now have 2 Spider-Men, 2 Scarlet Spiders, etc. all in the same universe.


Otherwise, Slott destroyed Peter's character, and I really dislike that.


as for RYV, that book is just becoming the Spider-Girl reboot at this point. They are even introducing a clone wearing an all dark blue costume of the teenage Anne a la "April Parker". The book clearly needs to end as they have run out of ideas at this point.