Comics Bendis Jab

[crivelliman]

Did anybody read the Stan Lee Meets Dr. Strange book? It's pretty good, though amazingly enough Strange is in two out of four stories, and one of them is just a reprint from an old Dr. Strange comic. Anyhoo, in one of the Bendis written stories there is a great jab at the Gwen Stacey decision which I think everyone who's been upset about it should check out. It's the Impossible Man story. There's also some choice jabs at his own work, specifically Avengers-related.

 

[wolvie2020]

Did anybody read the Stan Lee Meets Dr. Strange book? It's pretty good, though amazingly enough Strange is in two out of four stories, and one of them is just a reprint from an old Dr. Strange comic. Anyhoo, in one of the Bendis written stories there is a great jab at the Gwen Stacey decision which I think everyone who's been upset about it should check out. It's the Impossible Man story. There's also some choice jabs at his own work, specifically Avengers-related.

Yea, it's no secret in the industry that a lot of writers thought it was terrible and makes no sense. Two of the most vocal ones have been Alex Ross and Whedon.

In fact, in Whedon's back up story in Spider-Man meets Stan Lee, not only shows Whedon believes that ASM 121-122 was the birth of a more mature and serious take on super hero storytelling, but he clearly takes very strong jabs at Sins Past as well

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

That Bendis story pissed me off more than anythin'. Yeah, points were made but in th' end it was one big "shut the **** up" to fans who have been vocal lately.

Bendis can rot in hell.

 

[Marc]

Yea, it's no secret in the industry that a lot of writers thought it was terrible and makes no sense. Two of the most vocal ones have been Alex Ross and Whedon.

In fact, in Whedon's back up story in Spider-Man meets Stan Lee, not only shows Whedon believes that ASM 121-122 was the birth of a more mature and serious take on super hero storytelling, but he clearly takes very strong jabs at Sins Past as well

Really? At that con with JMS, he talks about hugging JMS at a meeting as a brother and saying how great JMS is doing.

 

[wolvie2020]

Really? At that con with JMS, he talks about hugging JMS at a meeting as a brother and saying how great JMS is doing.

Whedon? Really? Well, the writers at Marvel have some REALLY bizaare competitive relationships IMO. One article I read with Millar and Loeb, they totally ripped each others storytelling, while at the same time were being really friendly.

Well, I've read Whedon say plenty of times how Gwen would've never slept with Norman. Actually, I remember the actual quote. As Astonishing X-Men was being released, he was talking about writing such established characters, and how to still surprise them and make them fresh. It was a total X thing, but all of a sudden in the middle, he says "but there's always certain things that you now characters would never do. For example, Gwen Stacy would never sleep with Norman Osborn. Never." And then we have him clearly rip the piss out of Sins Past in Stan Lee meets Spider-Man. I thought it was hilarious too...

Well, to be honest, Gwen sleeping with Norman had nothing to do with JMS. We all now know that JMS finished the story, and Deodato did a lot of the character designs, (and a fair amount of art,) with Peter as the father. At the last second, Joey Q forced it to be that Gwen slept with Norman. Something like a year after the story, Joey Q has taken full responsiblity and has admitted that it was all him now anyway...

 

[Mara Jane]

While I have no love for Bendis, I think you are referring to JMS, who wrote Sins Past...

 

[Flint Marko]

Whedon? Really? Well, the writers at Marvel have some REALLY bizaare competitive relationships IMO. One article I read with Millar and Loeb, they totally ripped each others storytelling, while at the same time were being really friendly.

Well, I've read Whedon say plenty of times how Gwen would've never slept with Norman. Actually, I remember the actual quote. As Astonishing X-Men was being released, he was talking about writing such established characters, and how to still surprise them and make them fresh. It was a total X thing, but all of a sudden in the middle, he says "but there's always certain things that you now characters would never do. For example, Gwen Stacy would never sleep with Norman Osborn. Never." And then we have him clearly rip the piss out of Sins Past in Stan Lee meets Spider-Man. I thought it was hilarious too...

Well, to be honest, Gwen sleeping with Norman had nothing to do with JMS. We all now know that JMS finished the story, and Deodato did a lot of the character designs, (and a fair amount of art,) with Peter as the father. At the last second, Joey Q forced it to be that Gwen slept with Norman. Something like a year after the story, Joey Q has taken full responsiblity and has admitted that it was all him now anyway...

I actually applaud Joey Q for making the father NOT be peter.
That would have totally ripped spider-man to shreds for me. Of course, it would've been a lot better if they just screwed the idea all together and didn't make it, but atleast they took the lesser of two evils.

 

[Captivated]

I actually applaud Joey Q for making the father NOT be peter.
That would have totally ripped spider-man to shreds for me. Of course, it would've been a lot better if they just screwed the idea all together and didn't make it, but atleast they took the lesser of two evils.

I totally concur.

ALL "surprize Gwen twin" [SIZE=-1]scenarios sucked, but Peter being the daddy would have been a HUGE can of worms. [/SIZE]

 

[Flint Marko]

I totally concur.

ALL "surprize Gwen twin" [SIZE=-1]scenarios sucked, but Peter being the daddy would have been a HUGE can of worms. [/SIZE]

yep. All slimey and smelly...
also, i thought that sarah looking JUST like gwen was waaaay to convenient.

 

[Citizen_Kaine]

How would have Peter being the father been worse than the ****ing (no pun intended) Green Goblin!? At least that way they kept Gwens character
consistant, which was pretty much everyones problem with the story in the first place. Gwen was no longer every body's dream girl, she was just a "big cheating ****e, who got what was coming to her". As well we had

Mary Jane's absolutly horrendous characterization of hiding the fact that Gwen had children
Green Goblin being the mastermind again, and killing Gwen because she wouldn't let him have weekends. Spidey just happened to be there right?

but the whole Gwen slept around and got thrown off a bridge because of it crapped on a great story, and a great character.

Either way the story was ****e, and should have never ever been though up of

 

[CConn]

The Impossible Man: Have you seen what's going on in the Marvel Universe? There's no more mutants! The Avengers are NOT the Avengers! Gwen Stacy, you don't even want to know what happened with Gwen Stacy. The place is A MESS!

Stan Lee as written by Brian Michael Bendis: I know, I love it.

I'm sorry, but that ****'s just hilarious.

 

[wolvie2020]

How would have Peter being the father been worse than the ****ing (no pun intended) Green Goblin!? At least that way they kept Gwens character
consistant, which was pretty much everyones problem with the story in the first place. Gwen was no longer every body's dream girl, she was just a "big cheating ****e, who got what was coming to her". As well we had

Mary Jane's absolutly horrendous characterization of hiding the fact that Gwen had children
Green Goblin being the mastermind again, and killing Gwen because she wouldn't let him have weekends. Spidey just happened to be there right?

but the whole Gwen slept around and got thrown off a bridge because of it crapped on a great story, and a great character.

Either way the story was ****e, and should have never ever been though up of

Exactly. I'm sorry, but allowing this story, and Norman being the father is just unacceptable. The night Gwen Stacy died and the Green Goblins Last Stand are not only one of the most important Spidey comics of all time, they are very important comics, full stop.

They are considered the books that mark the end of the silver age, and opened the door to a more mature tone of story within super hero comics. And they've been 2 of my favourite for 15 years.

I have no idea why certain people keep pissing on this story and keep acting like it's okay...

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I thought it odd that they included Impossible Man in the Dr. Strange edition of "Stan Lee Meets"...

Wouldn't he have fit better in one of the upcoming Fantastic Four editions? (The Thing/Doom/Silver Surfer)...

 

[SpideyInATree]

Did anybody read the Stan Lee Meets Dr. Strange book? It's pretty good, though amazingly enough Strange is in two out of four stories, and one of them is just a reprint from an old Dr. Strange comic. Anyhoo, in one of the Bendis written stories there is a great jab at the Gwen Stacey decision which I think everyone who's been upset about it should check out. It's the Impossible Man story. There's also some choice jabs at his own work, specifically Avengers-related.

Whedon took a crack at the Gwen Stacy thing as well. It sounds like it's an ongoing thing in the Stan Lee Meets books now.

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

Well, to be honest, Gwen sleeping with Norman had nothing to do with JMS. We all now know that JMS finished the story, and Deodato did a lot of the character designs, (and a fair amount of art,) with Peter as the father. At the last second, Joey Q forced it to be that Gwen slept with Norman. Something like a year after the story, Joey Q has taken full responsiblity and has admitted that it was all him now anyway...

I still blame JMS to a point. Because, yeah, I get Editorial messing with your work and making you change it, but as it was coming out he was totally hyping the story. And when people started hating the story, he was like, "Um, yeah, it was Joe's fault." That, to me, shows a certain lack of...I don't know? Character? Credibility? There's something to be said about standing by your work regardless of fan outcry. I disrespect him for tarnishing the memory of Gwen, but I think I'd disrespect him just a little less if he was like, "You know what? Like it or not, this is my story. Deal with it."

 

[wolvie2020]

I still blame JMS to a point. Because, yeah, I get Editorial messing with your work and making you change it, but as it was coming out he was totally hyping the story. And when people started hating the story, he was like, "Um, yeah, it was Joe's fault." That, to me, shows a certain lack of...I don't know? Character? Credibility? There's something to be said about standing by your work regardless of fan outcry. I disrespect him for tarnishing the memory of Gwen, but I think I'd disrespect him just a little less if he was like, "You know what? Like it or not, this is my story. Deal with it."

I do agree with you...

But to be honest, the whole story was a bad idea on the whole. It was nice that he wanted to do a more traditional Spidey story, and finally leave behind the mysticm, but the story would still have many problems if Peter was the father. Another Goblin??? MJ LYING to Peter for their entire realtioinship?

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

I do agree with you...

But to be honest, the whole story was a bad idea on the whole. It was nice that he wanted to do a more traditional Spidey story, and finally leave behind the mysticm, but the story would still have many problems if Peter was the father. Another Goblin??? MJ LYING to Peter for their entire realtioinship?

There's no denying that. And I think JMS would have gotten a boatload of **** either way. Illegitimate childen are not really befitting for a flagship character like Spider-Man, especially one who's merchandise is aimed so much at children (which I suppose is why Joe Q nixed it in the first place). I don't think the story would have gone over no matter what.

I just think that as a writer JMS should have stood by it, terrible or not, instead of trying to share the blame.

 

[Dragon]

I actually applaud Joey Q for making the father NOT be peter.
That would have totally ripped spider-man to shreds for me. Of course, it would've been a lot better if they just screwed the idea all together and didn't make it, but atleast they took the lesser of two evils.

So, Gwen having children after a one night stand with her eventual murderer, thus giving the children a horribly tainted gene pool, ruining Peter and Gwen's relationship and making MJ into a lying, selfish ***** who left two innocent children in danger is the lesser evil to two people in love and planning a future together having children unexpectedly.

You live in a frightening universe my friend.

 

[TheFlyinRussian]

I remember about three years ago hearing that Kevin Smith was supposed to take over ASM, wha' happen'?

 

[Dragon]

It took him four years to finish a six issue miniseries. He could never handle a monthly book like Spidey.

 

[stillanerd]

There's no denying that. And I think JMS would have gotten a boatload of **** either way. Illegitimate childen are not really befitting for a flagship character like Spider-Man, especially one who's merchandise is aimed so much at children (which I suppose is why Joe Q nixed it in the first place). I don't think the story would have gone over no matter what.

I just think that as a writer JMS should have stood by it, terrible or not, instead of trying to share the blame.

Well, as soon as the original idea that Peter was going to be the father of Gwen's kids was scraped, then you might as well toss out the story entirely. Instead we got Norman and Gwen's mutant drug-addicted hyper-aging twins.

And yes, the idea of having Marvel's flagship character having illegitamate kids wouldn't have sit well at all. It was for that reason that former EIC Jim Shooter, at least the way he tells it, that he nixed a similar idea proposed by Bill Mantlo that Peter would father a child out of wedlock, and, considering who he was seeing at the time, guess who the mom would've been? The Black Cat! Now THAT would've been a REAL disaster.

 

[wolvie2020]

Well, as soon as the original idea that Peter was going to be the father of Gwen's kids was scraped, then you might as well toss out the story entirely. Instead we got Norman and Gwen's mutant drug-addicted hyper-aging twins.

And yes, the idea of having Marvel's flagship character having illegitamate kids wouldn't have sit well at all. It was for that reason that former EIC Jim Shooter, at least the way he tells it, that he nixed a similar idea proposed by Bill Mantlo that Peter would father a child out of wedlock, and, considering who he was seeing at the time, guess who the mom would've been? The Black Cat! Now THAT would've been a REAL disaster.

You know, I'm not that opposed to him having a child out of wedlock, seeing as that happens pretty often nowadays, (and for a while now.)

Not to say that Pete would be happy with it, it'd be nice to see him try to convince BC to marry him, and to deal with the fact that he has a child out of wedlock. Something that he's not happy with.

But to be honest, much prefer Pete and MJ having a baby... They deserve it!. It'll give him much more reason to live, and a closer connection to MJ and May at the same time. May and MJ could have some real cool bonding time too about it lol

 

[wolvie2020]

I remember about three years ago hearing that Kevin Smith was supposed to take over ASM, wha' happen'?

Yea, but Smith and deadlines don't match.

To be honest, it is a real shame. If Smith concentrated, used his strengths, and took over ASM when he should've, we would have some real good stories. But he's too busy trying to impress Hollywood, and doesn't always do that gooder job.. sadly

 

[Dragon]

There wouldn't have been any major backlash if the twins turned out to be Peter's. Certainly nothing comparable to their being Norman's.

As for the Black Cat thing, very different circumstances. That would have been during the start of the AIDS epidemic. So it's not so much that Marvel's flagship character had a baby out-of-wedlock, as he was having unprotected sex being the issue. And this would have been only aggravated by the fact that BC was a reckless character of shady morals who didn't really love Peter.

None of this was the case with Gwen.

 

[Marc]

Nah... I'd still have thought it was crap writing, because it is and it requires you to contradict known canon still to 'make' these babies. Plus what happens with them, do they do their idiotic, non-sensical aging thing again or are just babies. If they're babies then what the hell do you do with them storywise, would be completely pointless and if you want to throw a baby into the mix then just use May. At least that would fit.

Plus is Pete a moron to not think about the consequences of sex and the fact babies might happen unless you wear protection, great message and another example of our 'genius' acting a complete twonk. Real 'responsible' for two smart students.