The Dark Knight Rises I'd like to see Mr. Freeze taken seriously

[GaiusBaltar]

^ Can I get an amen?

 

[GaiusBaltar]

^ Can I get an amen?

 

[General_Obol]

Freeze should not be a serial killer, hitman for the mob, drug dealer or crook. He should be a scientists who runs amok causing people pain and suffering cause he feels it. Also trying to find a way to bring his wife back to life. That is what Freeze should be like.

That's a serial killer, and just a re-hashed Harvey Dent.

 

[BareYourTeeth]

David Strathairn

 

[GaiusBaltar]

That's a serial killer, and just a re-hashed Harvey Dent.

Perhaps the sentence right after that one, the one about him trying to save his wife, was much more important. Take the "causes suffering to others" idea as just an absolute lack of pity, an unstoppable drive to meet his goal (curing his wife).

 

[RicardusAlpert]

I don't think Freeze will be used either, but there's no denying of his value. He is a perfect storm of many important traits a Bat-villain usually has:

1. An unstoppable drive to achieve his goal toally lacking in morality if necessary.
2. A traumatic origin with a sympathetic side.
3. A cold approach to everything, like not fearing Batman.
4. Physical prowess that also challenges Batman in close fights and makes him not always rely on henchmen.
5. Almost sci-fi (yet possibly realistic) technological advances that play into the high-tech themes of the series.
6. Many psychological and thematic parallels to the Batman.
7. A shot at redemption.

His name is Victor Fries. He suffers from CIPA, which means he can't feel pain nor temperatures. He cannot feel heat nor cold, never could in his life due to his condition. He was brilliant but socially miserable until he met and married his wife Norah. He worked for many months in cold lab temperatures in a research about hibernation, which he fully commited to after his wife got sick with a rare fatal illness.
His desperate solution to the problem was to submit her into cryostasis to gain time to find a cure.
That goes on, until he suffers the tragic accident we all know about, but freakishly survives. In his new state, he loses all his hair, his skin turns pale blue due to little oxygen consumption (he goes cyanotic) and he needs to remain in the same low temperatures; a drastic change would give him a heat stroke and send him into hyperthermia and death. He begins wearing a powered exoskeleton suit that increases his body strength (reducing his waste of energy) and protects him from enviromental temperatures.
Basically, he is in the balance between life and death, and in that delicate health balance he must do whatever it takes to cure his wife.

There are many holes there but if you thought it sounded realistic, it was more than enough. If you didn't, well, that's all I've got.

EDIT:

Here are some didactic links to wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congeni...ith_anhidrosis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspend...an_hibernation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryosta...hrate_hydrates)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanosis#Central_cyanosis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton

Beautiful! If only Nolan would be interested

But forget Nolan, they should do this in the comics, in an Azarello's "Joker" kind of way.

 

[Rodrigo90]

they should do this in the comics, in an Azarello's "Joker" kind of way.

Easier said than done Im afraid. Im a huge fan of Azarello,but I dont even think he could think of the perfect solution.

 

[RicardusAlpert]

I was thinking that many people believe Mr. Freeze doesn't fir with Nolan's vision, but they're wrong. In fact, whencertain elements are considred, Mr. Freeze is the one villain that fits the most with that vision.

The Nolan brothers have a very constant tendency to direct/write stories about characters whose objective is fueled by the death of ther spouses/loved ones, or at least that aspect is present. Memento's Leonard Shelby is driven to find his wife's murderer. The magicians rivalry in The Prestige starts when Robert Angier's girlfriend dies, which finally leads him to killing one of the Borden twin brothers, which leads the surviving one (a widower after his wife hangs herself) to kill Angiers.
And his choice of villains for the Batman franchise is telling... Ra's al Ghul admits his crusade on crime began after his wife got murdered. Harvey Dent's main reason for falling into madness was the death of Rachel, who was also a loved one for Bruce, and we haven't seen all the rippling effects that death had on his conscience.

Spoiler

And spoilers of Nolan's latest feature Inception say DiCaprio's wife, played by Marion Cotillard, kills herself at some major point of the film.

And we keep seeing the main motivation for Nolan's character is consistently that: Death of a loved one.

The only other things people perceive as obstacles for Freeze are a campier look when compared to the Nolan's other designs and a strong sci-fi component. But after The Dark Knight, those aren't issues anymore. The Joker's arrival has been prophetized as a trigger for the coming of many more freak villains who will have distintive, more comics-faithful looks. And the sci-fi component for Freeze is MINIMAL, especially in a world that has non-lethal microwave emitters and sonar devices that encompass all the cell phones of a huge modern city like Gotham.

I'm calling it: Mr. Freeze is a more probable option for Nolan than The Riddler and people are not noticing it.

 

[Mister H.]

I was thinking that many people believe Mr. Freeze doesn't fir with Nolan's vision, but they're wrong. In fact, whencertain elements are considred, Mr. Freeze is the one villain that fits the most with that vision.

The Nolan brothers have a very constant tendency to direct/write stories about characters whose objective is fueled by the death of ther spouses/loved ones, or at least that aspect is present. Memento's Leonard Shelby is driven to find his wife's murderer. The magicians rivalry in The Prestige starts when Robert Angier's girlfriend dies, which finally leads him to killing one of the Borden twin brothers, which leads the surviving one (a widower after his wife hangs herself) to kill Angiers.
And his choice of villains for the Batman franchise is telling... Ra's al Ghul admits his crusade on crime began after his wife got murdered. Harvey Dent's main reason for falling into madness was the death of Rachel, who was also a loved one for Bruce, and we haven't seen all the rippling effects that death had on his conscience.

Spoiler

And spoilers of Nolan's latest feature Inception say DiCaprio's wife, played by Marion Cotillard, kills herself at some major point of the film.

And we keep seeing the main motivation for Nolan's character is consistently that: Death of a loved one.

The only other things people perceive as obstacles for Freeze are a campier look when compared to the Nolan's other designs and a strong sci-fi component. But after The Dark Knight, those aren't issues anymore. The Joker's arrival has been prophetized as a trigger for the coming of many more freak villains who will have distintive, more comics-faithful looks. And the sci-fi component for Freeze is MINIMAL, especially in a world that has non-lethal microwave emitters and sonar devices that encompass all the cell phones of a huge modern city like Gotham.

I'm calling it: Mr. Freeze is a more probable option for Nolan than The Riddler and people are not noticing it.

I disagree. I'm no big Riddler fan and I don't care whether he appears in the third installment or not, but based on the events of TDK, and espcially the finale, the Riddler would make much more sense if continuity is an issue. Batman will be Gothams's most wanted outlaw. There are myriad ways Riddler could be placed in that Gotham. But I don't see any good reason Mr. Freeze would be included in the third film.

 

[RicardusAlpert]

"based on the events of TDK, an especially the finale, the Riddler would make much more sense if continuity is an issue."

??? ... Why?

"Batman will be Gotham's most wanted outlaw."

And how that makes the Riddler make more sense as the next villain?

"There are myriad ways Riddler could be placed in that Gotham."

I don't think there are too many, not many more than the ways Freeze can be placed.

"I don't see any good reason Mr. Freeze would be included in the third film."

Maybe because you're not looking. Freeze has many things to bring to the table.

1. An unstoppable drive to achieve his goal toally lacking in morality if necessary.
2. A traumatic origin with a sympathetic side.
3. A cold approach to everything, like not fearing Batman.
4. Physical prowess that make shim also a physical foe who challenges Batman in close fights and doesn't have to rely always on henchmen.
5. Almost sci-fi (yet possibly realistic) technological advances that play into the high-tech theme of the series.
6. Many psychological and thematic parallels to the Batman.
7. A shot at Redemption, the most elusive thing for bat-villains.
8. A story similar to Harvey Dent's, which can give continuity to the themes of his interrupted story.
9. An opportunity for Batman to "reform" one of his enemies after he failed with Harvey.
10. An opportunity to make him related to Wayne Enterprises and tackle issues that deal with the public Bruce, maybe even breaking into W.E. and taking Fox hostage, which raises the stakes and hits the Batman right where it hurts him most, at his most valuable and almost last ally.
11. Freeze has been known for working for other villains, albeit in rare occasions, like when he worked as a hit-man for Black Mask. Although being more of a loner, he's not devoid of possibility for interaction with other villains. In fact, he can be in the same movie with any other villain who sees him as a tool for achieving something, in the vein of Scarecrow being used by Ra's al Ghul or Two-Face being used by the Joker.
12. A visual appearance that makes him more freak-like by necessity, not by campiness, which is an even smoother transition point to that new kind of criminal Joker was talking about.

What else do you want?

 

[RustyCage]

I'm calling it: Mr. Freeze is a more probable option for Nolan than The Riddler and people are not noticing it.

I don't disagree, but I also don't think one can be correctly called more probable than the other. They both seem right up his alley.

The trick is, it's typically harder to see that with Freeze because most everyone sees him as so 'sci-fi' or cartoony. Dunno how Nolan sees him, but I have faith in his ability to use him tastefully within this universe he's created, if he chooses to..

Apparently not many people saw "Subzero", which came out around the same time.

But that's a bad logic anyway. Schitmaker messed up too many things to count, yet that didn't stop other people from re-taking it and making it right.

But there are so many concepts here of "serial killer Freeze" and "hit man Freeze" (now drug dealer! WTF?) I'm afraid people are not very keen on using the now classic Dini concept.

What's wrong with these people?

"appearance matters" =/= "appearance is all that matters".

Maybe to avoid those unfamiliar with the character to wonder why a middle-eartern man rules a ninja society settled in Asia.
Maybe to lower expectations of those who were familiar, so they would rejoice later to see a character much more similar to the one they know from the comics. It's always a treat to see a cartoony character (playd by Watanabe) turn out to really be a riveting one (played by Neeson).

I come back after like a month and you're still the man.

 

[RustyCage]

David Strathairn

BEAUTIFUL choice! I'm totally backing this!

Listen to his voice!!! He is Freeze. [YT]LVQRhskfnlo[/YT]

(Probably want to ignore the obnoxious guy interviewing him. His voice hurts me really bad. )

 

[BareYourTeeth]

The video isn't showing up

 

[RustyCage]

The video isn't showing up

Try now, I think I fixed it.

 

[BareYourTeeth]

 

[RustyCage]

He could totally pull off the cold, demanding, almost robotic voice of what I consider to be the ideal Freeze (Dini's), while capturing the look at the same time. Just imagine those red goggles on him.. maybe a cold fog coming from his mouth when he says something. Yesss...

 

[Mister H.]

"based on the events of TDK, an especially the finale, the Riddler would make much more sense if continuity is an issue."

??? ... Why?

"Batman will be Gotham's most wanted outlaw."

And how that makes the Riddler make more sense as the next villain?

"There are myriad ways Riddler could be placed in that Gotham."

I don't think there are too many, not many more than the ways Freeze can be placed.

"I don't see any good reason Mr. Freeze would be included in the third film."

Maybe because you're not looking. Freeze has many things to bring to the table.

1. An unstoppable drive to achieve his goal toally lacking in morality if necessary.
2. A traumatic origin with a sympathetic side.
3. A cold approach to everything, like not fearing Batman.
4. Physical prowess that make shim also a physical foe who challenges Batman in close fights and doesn't have to rely always on henchmen.
5. Almost sci-fi (yet possibly realistic) technological advances that play into the high-tech theme of the series.
6. Many psychological and thematic parallels to the Batman.
7. A shot at Redemption, the most elusive thing for bat-villains.
8. A story similar to Harvey Dent's, which can give continuity to the themes of his interrupted story.
9. An opportunity for Batman to "reform" one of his enemies after he failed with Harvey.
10. An opportunity to make him related to Wayne Enterprises and tackle issues that deal with the public Bruce, maybe even breaking into W.E. and taking Fox hostage, which raises the stakes and hits the Batman right where it hurts him most, at his most valuable and almost last ally.
11. Freeze has been known for working for other villains, albeit in rare occasions, like when he worked as a hit-man for Black Mask. Although being more of a loner, he's not devoid of possibility for interaction with other villains. In fact, he can be in the same movie with any other villain who sees him as a tool for achieving something, in the vein of Scarecrow being used by Ra's al Ghul or Two-Face being used by the Joker.
12. A visual appearance that makes him more freak-like by necessity, not by campiness, which is an even smoother transition point to that new kind of criminal Joker was talking about.

What else do you want?

Probably based on what I said about Batman being Gotham City's most wanted.

The Riddler could be portrayed as a mysterious loner who wants to do his own investigation of Batman's alleged slayings, and eventually provides clues for law enforcement about the truth behind Harvey Dent.

Or maybe Riddler is a fed who wants to apprehend the Batman and will stop at nothing in his quest, going so far as to frame him for other crimes until he agrees to turn himself in.

The more traditional route could be taken as well, portraying the Riddler as an intellectual whose crimes are a puzzle. Upon cracking the code, Riddler reveals his identity, but not without unleashing horrible punishment on his enemies.

Okay, that isn't a "myriad" of possiblities, but those are three solid ideas that would fit nicely into Batman's inevitible "hunted by the law that still need his help" story arc of the third film.

Or, you could forget about the Riddler entirely, because I have my doubts about him being the next villain. I just think there are more interesting villains that haven't been on film yet that Nolan might like to explore.

 

[RicardusAlpert]

"Probably based on what I said about Batman being Gotham City's most wanted."

That could make any villain ideal, as long as they wanted to bring Batman down. Any big mob boss like the Penguin or Black Mask could send all his men after Batman now he's persecuted by the police. Anyone leading a Special Task Force after Batman would be a good villain. Hell, in that case even Harvey Bullock would make a terrible villain. If you're suggesting the Riddler to be that man, that's another deal, but what you're actually saying is that the Riddler would a mysterious behind-the-curtain slipping info to the cops... but to be honest, I'm pretty sure the Riddler is not the cooperative type. He wouldn't do other people's dirty work so the Police can claim the prize.

"Or maybe Riddler is a fed who wants to apprehend the Batman and will stop at nothing in his quest, going so far as to frame him for other crimes until he agrees to turn himself in."

Now THAT is something. You should have started there. Good idea.

"Okay, that isn't a "myriad" of possiblities (...) Or, you could forget about the Riddler entirely, because I have my doubts about him being the next villain. I just think there are more interesting villains that haven't been on film yet that Nolan might like to explore."

Maybe, but I can't think of any right now that fits more than Freeze, except Black Mask or the Penguin as big mob bosses and that would be more of ol' same. No matter how ruthless and malevolent they're still only mobsters, we've been there already. Maybe if the Penguin was controlling the politics of the Batman hunt, maybe he could be running for Mayor... or even be recently elected Mayor. And also give him some kind of technological edge, just to make him more interesting. But after that, we're out of choices and that doesn't really get to the dramatic level that Freeze can put on the table.

 

[Superboy-Prime]

I would like to see Mr. Freeze not actually needing to be at below zero temp.

I think a realistic Mr Freeze would be:

Mr Freeze uses some sort of high end technology to use ice as a weapon, due to the cold surrounds and such as using this technology, he needs a suit to keep his body at a normal human level or he could suffer from being exposed to this new ice block technology and could face death or a horrible injury, maybe his name could come from being a cold person with no regard for human life?

 

[Ipodman]

I would like to see Mr. Freeze not actually needing to be at below zero temp.

I think a realistic Mr Freeze would be:

Mr Freeze uses some sort of high end technology to use ice as a weapon, due to the cold surrounds and such as using this technology, he needs a suit to keep his body at a normal human level or he could suffer from being exposed to this new ice block technology and could face death or a horrible injury, maybe his name could come from being a cold person with no regard for human life?

I like this idea.... i dont mind either Riddler or Freeze if its a Nolan Film.. cause he does so well in reinventing villains already seen before...

 

[Jumpin' Jack]

My lord is that guy interviewing David annoying he is just so obnoxious!

 

[Ipodman]

has Nolan said anything about Freeze?
I remember him saying something about the Penguin being too unrealistic...
Wonder what makes him think that

 

[Drz]

has Nolan said anything about Freeze?
I remember him saying something about the Penguin being too unrealistic...
Wonder what makes him think that

Personally? I believe he doesn't know anything about the comic Penquin, but he's aware of Burton's Penquin.

 

[Cain]

bla

 

[Cain]

Personally? I believe he doesn't know anything about the comic Penquin, but he's aware of Burton's Penquin.

I'm inclined to agree as The Penguin is actually one of the main rogues that is the most "realistic". If you could adapt The Joker into his Batman universe than The Penguin should be a cakewalk. I never bought that he was a huge fan of the comic books at all there are a lot of things he seems to not really get.

Not that I mind though cause these movies are better served more often than not from not having a fanboy at the helm as it provides room for an inventive and fresh perspective. However Goyer was the bat fanboy out of those 2 quite evidently and Nolan even admitted that his brother Jonathan was the one who really was into Batman comic books growing up out of the two of them.