Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

[samsnee]

It’s because Harrison Ford is just too old to play the part as we remember it. He basically would be playing the Sean Connery role now.

 

[DarkKnight88]

An older Indiana Jones played by Harrison Ford is way more interesting to me than a rebooted Indiana Jones played by young Chris Take Your Pick.

See Solo.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I really hope they go for like a Rooster Cogburn or Eastwood in Unforgiven sort of thing. Indy has just become a grizzled guy. Ford would chew that up.

 

[Schlosser85]

I really hope they go for like a Rooster Cogburn or Eastwood in Unforgiven sort of thing. Indy has just become a grizzled guy. Ford would chew that up.

I get what you're saying, but if Indy turns into another Grumpy Old Man Harrison Ford Character.....then is Ford really still playing Indy?

 

[DarkKnight88]

I really hope they go for like a Rooster Cogburn or Eastwood in Unforgiven sort of thing. Indy has just become a grizzled guy. Ford would chew that up.

1000 times this. Also man out of time. 1930s man in the 1960s. Mangold is great at both.

I get what you're saying, but if Indy turns into another Grumpy Old Man Harrison Ford Character.....then is Ford really still playing Indy?

Maybe not so grumpy, but definitely out of his element. Indy in the 1960s is definitely something to explore.

I know it’s been discussed ad nauseam, but Indiana Jones is NOT Bond. He started off that way, but each film has given him more depth than before. Whether it be his faith, his relationships with his father, or son, Indy at this point is not just a character you reboot to fight Nazis. He’s become deeper than that. A much older Indy is definitely worth exploring.

 

[samsnee]

It wouldn’t make sense for him to be a grizzled hermit. He has Marion now and was in a happy place at the end of the last one. The series doesn’t need to go dark like that.

 

[Schlosser85]

It wouldn’t make sense for him to be a grizzled hermit. He has Marion now and was in a happy place at the end of the last one. The series doesn’t need to go dark like that.

Yea, don't pull a Logan.

 

[DarkKnight88]

He played Indy fairly light in the last one. His smile when he sees Marion again is perfect.

 

[Schlosser85]

He played Indy fairly light in the last one. His smile when he sees Marion again is perfect.

Yea, that's why I said don't turn Indy into a standard-issue grumpy old man Ford character. Because in KOTM, whatever you can say about the rest of the movie, Ford at least still felt like he was playing Indiana Jones, IMO.

 

[MasterBoss]

I grew up on the original 3 Indy films and love em (even Doom, despite it's serious issues) but does Indiana Jones even play the same way to a woke audience?

All you hear on social media is how "problematic" Indiana Jones is. Makes me wonder how they'll handle this one.

The trail will lead them around Europe in order not to offend anyone. If there are any foreign locations it will be from the previous movies but a desert is the likeliest one. Indy will be riding a horse and "punching Nazis." .

It's funny that you say that lol because that's exactly what they do in The Last Crusade, likely after the backlash that Doom received.

 

[Schlosser85]

I grew up on the original 3 Indy films and love em (even Doom, despite it's serious issues) but does Indiana Jones even play the same way to a woke audience?

All you hear on social media is how "problematic" Indiana Jones is. Makes me wonder how they'll handle this one.


It's funny that you say that lol because that's exactly what they do in The Last Crusade, likely after the backlash that Doom received.

Social media thinks everything and everyone is "problematic". That word has gotten frivolously overused to the point where it literally holds no weight or meaning anymore.

The Last Crusade did go back to the Middle Eastern desert though. Even in my review a long time ago, I said it felt like it was playing it safe by basically echoing Raiders' plot structure (Indy fights Nazis in the desert again).

 

[Gothamsknight]

I really hope they go for like a Rooster Cogburn or Eastwood in Unforgiven sort of thing. Indy has just become a grizzled guy. Ford would chew that up.

That would be cool. I'm expecting him to be more grizzled but maybe not full eastwood in unforgiven.

Btw Mangold confirmed on twitter his co-writer of Ford vs Ferrari wrote the Indy V script with him.

 

[MasterBoss]

Social media thinks everything and everyone is "problematic". That word has gotten frivolously overused to the point where it literally holds no weight or meaning anymore.

The Last Crusade did go back to the Middle Eastern desert though. Even in my review a long time ago, I said it felt like it was playing it safe by basically echoing Raiders' plot structure (Indy fights Nazis in the desert again).

Most of Crusade takes place in Europe though, even the stuff in the middle east is just like a tank battle in the mountain to get to the cave where the grail is being kept, and the conflict is always centered on the Nazis.

I've never agreed with the critique that Crusade is a Raiders rehash though. They have a few similarities but both films do vastly different things.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I grew up on the original 3 Indy films and love em (even Doom, despite it's serious issues) but does Indiana Jones even play the same way to a woke audience?

All you hear on social media is how "problematic" Indiana Jones is. Makes me wonder how they'll handle this one.


It's funny that you say that lol because that's exactly what they do in The Last Crusade, likely after the backlash that Doom received.

...

I've spend a lot of time on social media and have NEVER seen anyone calling the IJ franchise "problematic." And certainly not because it "takes place in non-European countries." That makes no sense. There have obviously been critiques of some of the elements (Indy's creepy af backstory with Marion, for example, or Short Round) But it remains pretty universally loved. (Excluding KOTC, of course, and that has nothing to do with being "woke") If anyone is out there blanketly attacking the whole franchise, then its most likely the same kids who try to go viral every year with "RDJ did blackface in Tropic Thunder" nonsense.

Basically, if a studio is considering an element of their movie "un-woke" they either have a terrible misconception of what that term means or, if they do understand it, the subject in question probably deserves to be cut.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

...

I've spend a lot of time on social media and have NEVER seen anyone calling the IJ franchise "problematic." And certainly not because it "takes place in non-European countries." That makes no sense. There have obviously been critiques of some of the elements (Indy's creepy af backstory with Marion, for example, or Short Round) But it remains pretty universally loved. (Excluding KOTC, of course, and that has nothing to do with being "woke") If anyone is out there blanketly attacking the whole franchise, then its most likely the same kids who try to go viral every year with "RDJ did blackface in Tropic Thunder" nonsense.

Basically, if a studio is considering an element of their movie "un-woke" they either have a terrible misconception of what that term means or, if they do understand it, the subject in question probably deserves to be cut.

I have seen it questioned based on the fact that you know Indy's job is rather... iffy. There has been a movement in recent years against museums and the general use of them when it comes to "stolen" property. A lot of attention paid to that in the UK, which makes sense because you know, The Empire. There is of course the racial caricatures and such.

I am not sure what any of this has to do with being woke of course. Then again, adding women and characters of color is apparently woke sacrilege so maybe I am wrong.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I get what you're saying, but if Indy turns into another Grumpy Old Man Harrison Ford Character.....then is Ford really still playing Indy?

If he's properly directed by Mangold with a quality script and it's earned then yes. The problem with those movies is he's just sleepwalking through milquetoast material.

Just do something interesting. He doesn't necessarily have to be grizzled to be interesting, that's just an idea, but if he's just the same guy he's been since the last movie that will be disappointing. There is that serialized aspect, but with an old Indy in the 60's, you kind of need to. There's a lot of good potential thematic stuff there.

 

[Schlosser85]

Most of Crusade takes place in Europe though, even the stuff in the middle east is just like a tank battle in the mountain to get to the cave where the grail is being kept, and the conflict is always centered on the Nazis.

I've never agreed with the critique that Crusade is a Raiders rehash though. They have a few similarities but both films do vastly different things.

I think the biggest thing Crusade does to mix things up is making the core relationship Indy’s dynamic with his father instead of a romantic entanglement.

 

[Doctor Jones]

A thing that I was thinking about they could do: Atlantis. Yes, it was a videogame and book, but I could see it. And in theory, that could be exciting. I'm okay with that choice. But when thinking it through the lens of Disney execs, it's interesting enough but it's also a fictional and extinct civilization to not offend anybody. And if we see people, they will probably be multi cultural. Unfortunately, it would probably be portrayed as an overly practical bland Roman city.

 

[Schlosser85]

Atlantis could be interesting.

 

[Doctor Jones]

One thing I really hope they can use is that Unreal Engine from The Mandalorian. That would fit Indy. Indy is more practical and should be but this is still 2021. You don't have to bend over backwards to not use green screen if you actually need it.

 

[MasterBoss]

...

I've spend a lot of time on social media and have NEVER seen anyone calling the IJ franchise "problematic." And certainly not because it "takes place in non-European countries." That makes no sense. There have obviously been critiques of some of the elements (Indy's creepy af backstory with Marion, for example, or Short Round) But it remains pretty universally loved. (Excluding KOTC, of course, and that has nothing to do with being "woke") If anyone is out there blanketly attacking the whole franchise, then its most likely the same kids who try to go viral every year with "RDJ did blackface in Tropic Thunder" nonsense.

Basically, if a studio is considering an element of their movie "un-woke" they either have a terrible misconception of what that term means or, if they do understand it, the subject in question probably deserves to be cut.

I wish but I got a bridge to sell you if you think that. Like the past few years especially I've seen people just ragging on Raiders of the Lost Ark, and the character of Indiana Jones in general.

The general complaints

-The Indiana Jones films support a colonialist viewpoint because it's about taking away cultural artifact from other countries (which isn't true, but people keep on peddling that one-sided nonsensical argument), with everyone taking the "That belongs in a museum" line out of context. The whole point is that Indiana Jones is a scumbag graverobber who learns over the course of his adventure to respect the artifact, with him ultimately learning that his early mindset is wrong. Apparently nuance or morally questionable protagonists with a dark side can't exist anymore. Indy's looting is never rewarded, and the filmmakers poke fun at his graverobbing tendencies.

-The films misrepresent archeology! Who on earth watches Indiana Jones for accurate history or genuine practices of archeology?

-Indiana Jones is problematic because the non-western countries are just used as a backdrop for Indy's exploits, and it's inherently told from a Eurocentric perspective. If that really bothers people, why would you be watching a globe trotting adventure film like Indy? That's like buying a ticket to sea world and then complaining about the mistreatment of sea lions.

-The non-white people are portrayed as savages or backwards! While that's obviously an issue with Temple of Doom (which plenty of people criticized back then in 1984), Raiders does a good job of showcasing both good and bad non-white characters. Yes there's some dated casting like John-Rhys Davies playing Sallah, but it's a product of it's time in that regard, back when Arabs were nearly always played by non-Arab actors.

-The Nazis in Raiders are exploiting the locals for their own gain! Like yeah, no duh. They're Nazis. Sallah even makes note of that, comparing the Nazis to the pharaohs.

I even heard people recently complaining about the portrayal of the Nazis, and how it's wrong to cartoonify them. People are so ridiculously jaded these days.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Atlantis could be interesting.

I could get excited about a 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea type of adventure. Give this movie an individual personality like the other four movies. At the very least give me that.

I know I joke about Europe, but to be fair, there are wholly separate European mythologies we haven't seen yet. I'd love to see something Nordic based and see Indy in the snow. I'd love to see Indy tackling Greek mythology.

I want pulp genre trash at the very least. Give me Indy battling a Frankenstein Monster in a castle like in Emperor's Tomb.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I could get excited about a 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea type of adventure. Give this movie an individual personality like the other four movies. At the very least give me that.

I know I joke about Europe, but to be fair, there are wholly separate European mythologies we haven't seen yet. I'd love to see something Nordic based and see Indy in the snow. I'd love to see Indy tackling Greek mythology.

I want pulp genre trash at the very least. Give me Indy battling a Frankenstein Monster in a castle like in Emperor's Tomb.

Less running in a sub.

 

[Arachnerd]

I would totally be onboard for an Atlantis-centric storyline.

 

[Filmfreak]

An adaptation of The Fate of Atlantis by LucasArts would be my ideal sequel film, even with a now much older Ford.