Invincible - Part 1

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]114990[/split]

 

[Lazarus440]

Has any one been reading Invincible? I just can’t wait for the next issue to come out, even if its late. What do you all think will happen?

i just got Invincible #12



Written by: Robert Kirkman
Art by: (A) Ryan Ottley and (C) Bill Crabtree
Color: Full Color
Pages: 32
Format: Monthly Ongoing Series
Price: $2.95
Order Code(s): FEB041318


The Concept:

Mark Grayson is just like most everyone else his age, except for the fact that his father is the most powerful superhero on the planet. And now he¹s begun to inherit his father's powers. It all sounds okay at first, but how do you follow in your father's footsteps when you know you will never live up to his standards?

This Issue:

"Perfect Strangers," Conclusion. Mark's world comes crashing down around him. After the events of last issue, Mark is left wondering how he'll survive. You have front row seats as Mark comes face to face with the most deadly foe of his short-lived superhero career. It's all been leading up to this, and you do not want to miss this

 

[Artistsean]

I love the idea of the [BLACKOUT]Viltrumites left, like 23 or them, living on Earth in secret. Supposedly not helping or hurting anyone, so they could replenish their species. And then, in like 100 years, they plan to start the war again, but my first thought was they plan to live on Earth like Nolan did. [/BLACKOUT]This leaves the story open for so many different possibilities. Maybe [BLACKOUT]some of the bad Viltrumites turn good like Nolan sort of did. Maybe some become reluctant heroes, and still maybe some turn into super villains or stay bad and hidden. [/BLACKOUT] Its a fun idea.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

I love the idea of the [BLACKOUT]Viltrumites left, like 23 or them, living on Earth in secret. Supposedly not helping or hurting anyone, so they could replenish their species. And then, in like 100 years, they plan to start the war again, but my first thought was they plan to live on Earth like Nolan did. [/BLACKOUT]This leaves the story open for so many different possibilities. Maybe [BLACKOUT]some of the bad Viltrumites turn good like Nolan sort of did. Maybe some become reluctant heroes, and still maybe some turn into super villains or stay bad and hidden. [/BLACKOUT] Its a fun idea.

I'm not overly thrilled with the ending to the Viltrumite war. To me it felt like Kirkman wrote himself into a corner and needed to end the arc with a cop out. But I AM interested to see [BLACKOUT]how Allen and the C.O.P. handle the V's being on Earth and Mark and Nolan's truce with them. Will this cause a rift between Mark and Allen, having friend fight friend? Does Allen unleash the Viltrumite virus on Earth? That certainly would go along with what the future Immortal referenced in issue 54 about Mark catching the virus and becoming the leader of the Viltrumite Empire.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[blksuperman2]

I liked the latest issue. I wish they'd get back on track w/ the schedule dates though.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

I liked the latest issue. I wish they'd get back on track w/ the schedule dates though.

I don't see why it wouldn't. The issues that were taking place in space had so much detail in the art that those pages must have taken forever to draw, not to mention one of them was double-sized. Now that the book's back to being on Earth, I think Ottley will bang them out quickly.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

Ottley posted on facebook that 79 is completely done and on it's way to the printer and that he's already started on 80.

 

[blksuperman2]

That's great news!

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I was about 3 issues behind, finally caught up. Thragg is stupid-strong, good God. And I'm soooo happy Oliver survived his dismembering.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

WTF! BS! Mark wouldn't just agree....true....he wouldn't want them to kill everyone, but ******** he doesn't flip his **** and lose it right there.

He even logically thinks it out, letting the remaining Viltrumites live on Earth and breed means that in 18-30 years there will only be more of them, possibly dozens or hundreds then they're super ****ed, just like he said.

I mean they won't know who, or where they are, so more than likely the Viltrumites will be able to build their numbers and rank....their only chance...and Kirkman maybe going for the big pay off, is that not all will fall into line and will rebel.

 

[blksuperman2]

Well if his dad could change because he fell in love w/ a human and had a son, then perhaps some of the Vitrumites will do the same. I don't see it has a lose lose situation really.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Well if his dad could change because he fell in love w/ a human and had a son, then perhaps some of the Vitrumites will do the same. I don't see it has a lose lose situation really.

I agree...to an extent. I mean the Viltrumite empire is known for being more loyal than a ****ing dog! So being brought up to hate the humans, know that one day in the next 10 years or so [assuming you're being told this when you're 5 like Mark] that you will be an utter bad ass and be able to punk all of this ****ing sissy's like it was going out of style?

You know what they say, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts, absolutely. I can see see some turning, but again, what maybe 5, 10 if they're lucky. Against was it 19 that's left...or 29? Not to mention one Regent/King who is a badass to end all badasses?

Logically [which I know is a problem with comics] they're ****ed. But Kirkman will probably come up with something, that I won't like, to explain it away.

 

[TheVileOne]

And I am now dropping Invincible. This book has officially jumped the shark. I love you Kirkman, but c'mon.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Hmmm...I think he may have jumped the shark a while back to be honest.

 

[TheVileOne]

Needless to say the shark as has been jumped and I've lost interest with the book. I don't really like reading the book anymore and I'm dropping it. I don't think Kirkman knows what he is doing with it anymore. Several years ago I thought this was the funnest, coolest, post-modern take on superhero comics. Not anymore.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Yeah to be honest I've thought he's kind of a hack for some time now. Being creative and having original ideas are not the same as being a good writer.

 

[Dread]

Been ages since I posted in an INVINCIBLE topic. Guess I should pay more attention.

At any rate, I still enjoy the title greatly. It is a shame the schedule has been thrown out of whack a bit since the "one time in 2009" era, but working on the Walking Dead TV show has likely bitten into Kirkman's schedule - and at the very least, he doesn't always throw his artists under a bus in terms of lateness. There have been lull periods, but I don't think these last ten issues have been among them. I enjoyed the last issue (although the change in colorist was noticeable)

Spoiler

and I liked the VILTRUMITE WAR (VW) story. I liked CONQUEST before it and so on. The challenge of the VW story was that Kirkman had built it up for years and thus had to deliver on a lot, but if he tied it up too completely, he'd pretty much write the book into a corner since it has been established that very few beings can challenge Invincible beyond another Viltrumite. A lot of writers stick themselves into corners trying to top themselves endlessly and then get stuck - Mark Millar and Brian Bendis being textbook examples. Thus, I didn't mind that the VW ended in a stalemate and Mark, Nolan & Allen didn't personally slay ALL of them. That would have been a bit blunt.

If I had one reservation with the VW story, it was that even at 8 issues long, a lot of bits were covered with pages of exposition dialogue and that sometimes felt like a case of "tell, not show". I mean there was lovely art and a lot of montage sequences, but because the lead characters were away from the battle for months of time, they weren't a part of it. The focus was having Nolan and Oliver bond for a few issues, not watching Allen, Tech-Jacket, Space-Racer and Nameless Extras fight war scenes. Telling a true "war" story is a delicate thing; to cover every angle in depth, the VW could have easily been twice as many issues. Perhaps that is what some people wanted; manga stories would think nothing of doing things like that, and some serialized live action TV as well. If memory serves, STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE spent at least two seasons doing a war story against the Dominion, maybe three. The dilemma is that if it is too long, thing can easily grow stale. INVINCIBLE has a lot of action and gore and I imagine it is a challenge to make things look unique. I thought when battles did happen in the VW, the stakes were high and they were different.

I do have a hard time reasoning why Thragg chose to spare Nolan and Mark when he could have simply killed them and simply NOT blown up earth in revenge and repopulated themselves there. Instead he spared them and forced them into a verbal treaty agreement. Of course, Nolan and Mark are major characters, of course. Did Thragg want them to live because they symbolized Viltrumite life on earth and mating with Earthlings? Did he take some pity on them because they'd essentially been led by Thaddeus, who Thragg saw as a traitor and who sparked the empire's problems? I sort of read it as Thragg choosing to spare them by sheer virtue of there being so few Viltrumites left now that icing another two would have been counter productive. I don't have a problem with the end result, it was just the manner of getting there that was a little awkward. Viltrumites have hardcore "warrior" mannerisms that as a culture they avoid altering, so maybe Thragg NEEDED their "agreement" to avoid "having" to destroy Earth, but....he was willing to buckle with tradition by offering the agreement anyway, in a position of short term strength. But now I am going in circles. I wouldn't give the VW story an A+ perfect grade, but its an A or A- which is still par for the course on the book and better than a damn lot of superhero comics.

That said, Kirkman has gone to the well of "fake out" death fairly often. It does prevent you from knowing when a "death" is "real" or not, which is good. On the other hand, it prevents me from taking ANY death scene at face value until the next issue ships, which sometimes is two months later. I didn't believe for a moment Oliver was dead in that first issue, and I was right. I suppose it was only a pattern after the Eve fake out, and honestly I'd prefer to keep major characters alive.

I did like the very raw human drama of the stuff between Mark and Eve in this issue. I do believe Invincible needs some new enemies now more than ever, but Kirkman is trying with Dinosaurus. Sadly, alongside SUPER DINOSAUR, it just seems like he has a dinosaur kick now. Dinosaurus is basically Stegron the Dinosaur Man, who was himself a riff on the Lizard. It will be difficult seeing where Debbie Grayson and Nolan go from here, but I imagine Nolan being on earth will provide no end of motivation for PowerPlex.

I do wish GUARDING THE GLOBE could come out more often, though. This issue seemed to clearly take place after the 8th issue, since Invincible thrashed a few members of the Order that they're struggling with.

 

[TheVileOne]

I didn't buy any of the raw human drama at all in this story. At least not anymore. It feels forced as hell. Kirkman has now turned this book into 90210 and Melrose Place.

Spoiler

When Eve said she had an abortion and "couldn't do it alone," I just rolled my eyes.

Yeah to be honest I've thought he's kind of a hack for some time now. Being creative and having original ideas are not the same as being a good writer.

I sort of agree with this. The last year of Invincible stories have disappointed me greatly.

 

[Artistsean]

To be honest, most comics are soap opera-ish. Spider-Man springs to mind.

Wait, so Immortal is [BLACKOUT]Abraham Lincoln[/BLACKOUT]?
Immortal says:

Spoiler

I felt sorry for John Wilks Booth, he did try to kill me but I wasn't dead and he was punished for it anyway.

Then his kids names are

Spoiler

Abe and Mary.

But he also said he was undercover and didn't want to blow it, so does that mean he was pretending to be [BLACKOUT]Lincoln[/BLACKOUT], and really wasn't?

I like the comic, even this one, it is interesting. Not sure how Mark and Eve can stay together though, she is going through some major stuff with [BLACKOUT]her powers bringing her back to life, then altering her body, Rex dying, then the abortion, all this happening plus Mark just got back after being gone for months. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[TheVileOne]

That doesn't mean I have to like it and read it.

 

[Artistsean]

Never said that,

Also, I just noticed on the cover there is [BLACKOUT]a bust of Lincoln[/BLACKOUT] in the Immortal's house.
So I guess [BLACKOUT]the Immortal is Lincoln[/BLACKOUT].

 

[Dread]

By "undercover", I assumed that it meant the Immortal means living in public society without revealing his nature that he is immortal and can never die (at least so long as his head is on his shoulders, and even if not he will revive if it is reattached). At one point in the 1800's he served as the President of the United States - likely as an attempt to do good in an era before super heroes. However, he could not reveal himself as an immortal then, especially since people were less accepting of "freaks". Thus, when Booth shot "Lincoln", he had to pretend to die and then abandon the presidency and find another identity. At this point I believe the Immortal is supposed to have once been Abe Lincoln as one of his many prior identities over the centuries.

Kirkman's not the only creator who liked to add some oddness to Lincoln - Mike Mignola's AMAZING SCREW-ON HEAD was about the titular mystical robotic being who defended America from magical threats during Lincoln's administration (and reported directly to Lincoln).

I could buy the drama because Eve has been through a lot lately, as mentioned.

Spoiler

She also had dysfunctional parents, including a creepy father, so that adds pressure to raising a kid, especially alone. Of course, Eve and Debbie had "gotten closer" over the last 10 months so for all intents and purposes Debbie likely would have supported Eve if she'd gone through with it. Debbie has an uncanny ability to raise children - she accepted Oliver even though he has no genetic link to her (at best, she is his step-mother). But, that's the road not traveled.

I do believe Kirkman is aware of "the drama" - he literally has Dupli-Kate scold Eve on a panel for "all her baggage". The dilemma here is that they were built up as THE couple for so long that even if Kirkman were to decide to give Mark and Eve a break, it would be difficult for it to see legitimate - unless Mark decided to take back his ex because her boyfriend had gotten too abusive or something.

Comics have always had cheesy soap opera drama, at least since the 60's era when Stan Lee made that popular, especially with Spider-Man. Despite the fact that virtually all comics are written by liberals, abortion still remains a touchy subject in them, and not a story that comes up often. Babies are "lost" in many ways in comics, but rarely in a manner as "mundane" as an abortion. Would it have been better had Eve been attacked by Angstrum Levy and had the fetus yanked out?

One angle that hasn't really been mentioned much is that if Mark and Eve were to sire a child...that kid would basically be the messiah. It would have Mark's Viltrumite powers as well as some degree of Eve's powers. So eventually you could have someone like Nolan or Thragg with the ability to create anything.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

To be honest, most comics are soap opera-ish. Spider-Man springs to mind.

Wait, so Immortal is [BLACKOUT]Abraham Lincoln[/BLACKOUT]?
Immortal says:

Spoiler

I felt sorry for John Wilks Booth, he did try to kill me but I wasn't dead and he was punished for it anyway.

Then his kids names are

Spoiler

Abe and Mary.

But he also said he was undercover and didn't want to blow it, so does that mean he was pretending to be [BLACKOUT]Lincoln[/BLACKOUT], and really wasn't?

I like the comic, even this one, it is interesting. Not sure how Mark and Eve can stay together though, she is going through some major stuff with [BLACKOUT]her powers bringing her back to life, then altering her body, Rex dying, then the abortion, all this happening plus Mark just got back after being gone for months. [/BLACKOUT]

See and that I get, not that I like it, but I get it. Spider-Man, IronMan, Hulk, Thor, X-Men, Superman, Batman, etc have been around for so long that it makes sense after 400, 600, 800 issues that there are going to be huge lull periods and the story line is going to suffer, sometimes so much so that you wonder who the **** was high on coke when they approved this **** that my four year old nephew could write.

But Invincible has been around for just under 80 issues? I mean come on, there should be so much he can do with it and not have to resort to jumping the shark this early on. If we were say 200 issues deep I could understand it, but honestly around issue 55 or so I started to love my love affair.

That's really early on, I'll still read it but I don't have the same enthusiasm that I once did for it.

 

[TheVileOne]

By "undercover", I assumed that it meant the Immortal means living in public society without revealing his nature that he is immortal and can never die (at least so long as his head is on his shoulders, and even if not he will revive if it is reattached). At one point in the 1800's he served as the President of the United States - likely as an attempt to do good in an era before super heroes. However, he could not reveal himself as an immortal then, especially since people were less accepting of "freaks". Thus, when Booth shot "Lincoln", he had to pretend to die and then abandon the presidency and find another identity. At this point I believe the Immortal is supposed to have once been Abe Lincoln as one of his many prior identities over the centuries.

Kirkman's not the only creator who liked to add some oddness to Lincoln - Mike Mignola's AMAZING SCREW-ON HEAD was about the titular mystical robotic being who defended America from magical threats during Lincoln's administration (and reported directly to Lincoln).

I could buy the drama because Eve has been through a lot lately, as mentioned.

Spoiler

She also had dysfunctional parents, including a creepy father, so that adds pressure to raising a kid, especially alone. Of course, Eve and Debbie had "gotten closer" over the last 10 months so for all intents and purposes Debbie likely would have supported Eve if she'd gone through with it. Debbie has an uncanny ability to raise children - she accepted Oliver even though he has no genetic link to her (at best, she is his step-mother). But, that's the road not traveled.

I do believe Kirkman is aware of "the drama" - he literally has Dupli-Kate scold Eve on a panel for "all her baggage". The dilemma here is that they were built up as THE couple for so long that even if Kirkman were to decide to give Mark and Eve a break, it would be difficult for it to see legitimate - unless Mark decided to take back his ex because her boyfriend had gotten too abusive or something.

Comics have always had cheesy soap opera drama, at least since the 60's era when Stan Lee made that popular, especially with Spider-Man. Despite the fact that virtually all comics are written by liberals, abortion still remains a touchy subject in them, and not a story that comes up often. Babies are "lost" in many ways in comics, but rarely in a manner as "mundane" as an abortion. Would it have been better had Eve been attacked by Angstrum Levy and had the fetus yanked out?

One angle that hasn't really been mentioned much is that if Mark and Eve were to sire a child...that kid would basically be the messiah. It would have Mark's Viltrumite powers as well as some degree of Eve's powers. So eventually you could have someone like Nolan or Thragg with the ability to create anything.

I don't agree with any of your points. They don't make any sense.

Spoiler

Why did she even need to lose the baby . . . or even get pregnant for that matter? Or why couldn't Mark even tell she was pregnant?

OMG! SHE'S GOING TO RAISE THE BABY ALONE! Goodness gracious. The woman is able enough to put together her own little private home in the freaking Serengetti, she sets up a superhero money funnelling account for Mark all on her own, and she risks her life day in and out as a superhero.

Sure she was in a really awkward position but geezus.

My point is this isn't the book I fell in love with several years ago. It's become something just forced, dull, and mundane. The Viltrumite War was whiffed

Anyway, I kind of do want to see Mark and Eve break up now. The last issue was just so . This book has jumped the shark. The book is just meh now. I just don't buy into Mark and Eve anymore. They really aren't the characters I fell in love with or grew to like either. Eve turned out to be a real drama queen.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

I don't agree with any of your points. They don't make any sense.

Spoiler

Why did she even need to lose the baby . . . or even get pregnant for that matter? Or why couldn't Mark even tell she was pregnant?

OMG! SHE'S GOING TO RAISE THE BABY ALONE! Goodness gracious. The woman is able enough to put together her own little private home in the freaking Serengetti, she sets up a superhero money funnelling account for Mark all on her own, and she risks her life day in and out as a superhero.

Sure she was in a really awkward position but geezus.

My point is this isn't the book I fell in love with several years ago. It's become something just forced, dull, and mundane. The Viltrumite War was whiffed

Anyway, I kind of do want to see Mark and Eve break up now. The last issue was just so . This book has jumped the shark. The book is just meh now. I just don't buy into Mark and Eve anymore. They really aren't the characters I fell in love with or grew to like either. Eve turned out to be a real drama queen.

Agreed, I mean Grand Regent Thragg could kill both Mark and his dad with no problem at all and still do as he pleases with Earth, instead he offers then a truce? That's the dumbest thing ever.

He doesn't care for them, hates them and he keeps them alive? Why? Because he cares for the live of all Viltrumites? BS. If he did he would have stepped in and killed everyone they were facing without losing one life of his people.

It just doesn't make any sense, it feels like Kirkman is just making it overly dramatic on purpose. Oh no! A costume change! Aaaaaaaand now Mark is back in his original costume that he started out in.

It's like Coca~Cola introducing new coke just to spike sales since they knew everyone would hate it and want old coke back.