The Dark Knight Rises Marion Cottilard in The Dark Knight Rises?

[iamcitizen]

Bale is Welsh... your point is.........?

Bale can do a convincing American accent. Faking an accent isn't something anyone can do. It's a skill. It's especially hard if you aren't a native speaker of the language.

 

[raybia]

You're missing the point. Why would they even talk to the likes of Watts or Weisz for a role they wouldn't be suited for? Marion may be suited for Talia, but the other actresses aren't, hence the role is unlikely to be Talia.

Maybe Nolan thought otherwise.

 

[jmc]

To me the age is the give away. If any of the group of actresses were to be Talia it would have been the 20 somethings of Hathaway, Knightly etc, instead they were going for Catwoman. It doesn't make sense to me to be scouting for women over 35 for Talia, especially when Neeson is fairly young looking for his age. I could buy them as being his sister but not his daughter.

 

[20thCenturyBoy]

Just a thought on the Sarah Essen thing... if Cotillard was the "Love interest" of the two female roles, that doesn't mean she's a love interest for Bruce.

 

[jmc]

^ That's a valid point you bring up there actually. Maybe we've all been too quick to assume the love interest is for Bruce. Something to ponder.

 

[TheBatman072]

^ That's a valid point you bring up there actually. Maybe we've all been too quick to assume the love interest is for Bruce. Something to ponder.

The only other person she could be a love interest for is Gordon.

Would Nolan really go the "Gordon has an affair" route with the very altruistic Gordon?

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Like I suggested before, I think "love interest" period could be nothing more than an assumption down the wire somewhere. People see a list of actresses for a movie like Batman, they automatically assume love interest.

Almost sexist, no? There's no reason this character can't just be a single woman without designs on Bruce, Gordon, or anyone.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Why not?

 

[TheBatman072]

Like I suggested before, I think "love interest" period could be nothing more than an assumption down the wire somewhere. People see a list of actresses for a movie like Batman, they automatically assume love interest.

Almost sexist, no? There's no reason this character can't just be a single woman without designs on Bruce, Gordon, or anyone.

Another good point.

Also, that original report of "one villain/one love interest" could have very well been complete ********.

We've got Catwoman, who will more than likely act as BOTH love interest and villain(a love antagonist), and then we've got Bane, the main villain.

There's room for at most on more villain(the mob like villain) and maybe one or two more supporting characters.

 

[20thCenturyBoy]

The only other person she could be a love interest for is Gordon.

Would Nolan really go the "Gordon has an affair" route with the very altruistic Gordon?

While I don't see this happening since TDK did a lot to build up or imply the strength of their relationship, I could see Gordon's wife leaving him after what she went through in TDK... Gordon was becoming a dangerous person to be around, emotionally and literally. I don't really think she's Essen, just speculating on if she was.

I thnk Mr. Pot Pete has the most accurate-sounding idea... it would be rather odd to have two love interests for Bruce in the same movie.

 

[jmc]

The only other person she could be a love interest for is Gordon.

Would Nolan really go the ''Gordon has an affair'' route with the very altruistic Gordon?

No, because I think someone needs to be the moral authority in the series and I think Chris knows this. Gordon has to be the lone voice of reason and sanity, he has to be the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction in amongst the madness going on around him, he has to be the genuine good guy, having an affair would destroy that. That said, the events of TDK with his wife and family could lead to his marriage dissolving, opening the way for Sarrah Essen or a character like her.

 

[KRIM]

Having an affair never stopped Gordon from being a genuine good guy in the comics. If anything it gave him some depth, and showed that characters are always gray. Even the most altruistic and good-hearted of people have flaws.

 

[jmc]

Having an affair never stopped Gordon from being a genuine good guy in the comics. If anything it gave him some depth, and showed that characters are always gray. Even the most altruistic and good-hearted of people have flaws.

That kinds goes against the point of the character Nolan has set up though. The whole point of Gordon in the series is he's a guy who plays by the rules whilst everyone else around him is doing whatever they want, Gordon isn't grey, he's very much white. If Gordon is susceptible to falling then there's no hope for anyone, doesn't matter if he's still a good guy after the fact, you've just brought him down a level in the audiences eye. As mentioned, he has to remain the moral symbol of the series, having an affair destroys that instantly.

 

[flickchick85]

Just a thought on the Sarah Essen thing... if Cotillard was the "Love interest" of the two female roles, that doesn't mean she's a love interest for Bruce.

That's been brought up before, but the very same reports that stated the "one female villain, one love interest" thing ALSO specified that the "love interest" was for Bruce. So if we assume they were wrong about that, we might as well assume they were wrong about the other role being a love interest at all.

Like I suggested before, I think "love interest" period could be nothing more than an assumption down the wire somewhere. People see a list of actresses for a movie like Batman, they automatically assume love interest.

Almost sexist, no? There's no reason this character can't just be a single woman without designs on Bruce, Gordon, or anyone.

And I'd prefer this.

 

[KRIM]

That kinds goes against the point of the character Nolan has set up though. The whole point of Gordon in the series is he's a guy who plays by the rules whilst everyone else around him is doing whatever they want, Gordon isn't grey, he's very much white. If Gordon is susceptible to falling then there's no hope for anyone, doesn't matter if he's still a good guy after the fact, you've just brought him down a level in the audiences eye. As mentioned, he has to remain the moral symbol of the series, having an affair destroys that instantly.

It's an affair. It's not murder. Nolan has also been insistent on driving Batman's moral code into the movies, those of which he isn't always able to live up to perfectly. That doesn't make it hopeless, it informs how the world isn't made of absolutes.

 

[TheBatman072]

No, because I think someone needs to be the moral authority in the series and I think Chris knows this. Gordon has to be the lone voice of reason and sanity, he has to be the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction in amongst the madness going on around him, he has to be the genuine good guy, having an affair would destroy that. That said, the events of TDK with his wife and family could lead to his marriage dissolving, opening the way for Sarrah Essen or a character like her.

Agreed.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Yes. The only "morally absolute" character in Nolan's movies is the Joker. But he is a mysterious case.

 

[jmc]

It may as well be murder, an affair is an affair, it changes the perspective people have on a character instantly. It doesn't matter if he's still a good guy underneath, he just cheated on his wife and that drags him down a level. Gordon has to remain the one good person in amongst the madness, he's gotta be the everyman, he's gotta be the lone voice of sanity.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Aside from the moral implications, does anyone honestly see Nolan setting aside time in this final movie to deal with Gordon's love life?

Gordon's had a nice, meaty role in this series (at least compared to previous incarnations), but let's face it, he still gets very few scenes revolving around his personal life, and not directly involving Batman.

I actually do believe that Essen has a good shot of showing up in the film, but I'd assume it would be merely in a professional capacity. Like I said before, she would easily fill the void left by Rachel/Dent/Loeb/Flass as the token cop/public official for Gordon to work with.

 

[iamcitizen]

No, because I think someone needs to be the moral authority in the series and I think Chris knows this. Gordon has to be the lone voice of reason and sanity, he has to be the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction in amongst the madness going on around him, he has to be the genuine good guy, having an affair would destroy that. That said, the events of TDK with his wife and family could lead to his marriage dissolving, opening the way for Sarrah Essen or a character like her.

See, I felt like the "the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction" was Rachel. Rachel fought the mob, but never condoned extra-legal vigilante justice, whereas Gordon was willing to work side-by-side with not only an outlaw vigilante but with crooked cops. Rachel was appalled by dishonesty and refused to abide by Harvey taking the blame for being Batman, whereas Gordon took part in a conspiracy to frame an innocent man for multiple homicides in order to preserve the public image of the real killer. Gordon is guilty of all the crimes Batman is guilty of, with the addition of hypocrisy, since he is a cop.

Gordon is the most morally compromised character in the whole series. Batman and Dent (before his scarring) were idealists who bent the rules in the name of capital-g Good. The mob had their own code of ethics ("honor... respect") and Ra's al Ghul was trying, in his way, to save the world from crime. Even the Joker was dedicated to his ideals of anarchy.

Gordon, however, bends and breaks the rules not out of dedication to an ideal but out of a desire for an ill-defined sense of order. Gordon represents the people of Gotham, who want security but are too scared to take a true stand against crime. The citizens of Gotham support Batman's war on the mob when it is only Batman's life on the line, but turn on Batman as soon as the Joker starts killing citizens.

This is why Gordon makes it through the movie intact and with his loved ones alive. In the Nolan-Batman-universe, idealists are doomed to smash up against other idealists until everyone is broken. The only way to avoid breaking is to bend.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

See, I felt like the "the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction" was Rachel. Rachel fought the mob, but never condoned extra-legal vigilante justice, whereas Gordon was willing to work side-by-side with not only an outlaw vigilante but with crooked cops. Rachel was appalled by dishonesty and refused to abide by Harvey taking the blame for being Batman, whereas Gordon took part in a conspiracy to frame an innocent man for multiple homicides in order to preserve the public image of the real killer. Gordon is guilty of all the crimes Batman is guilty of, with the addition of hypocrisy, since he is a cop.

Gordon is the most morally compromised character in the whole series. Batman and Dent (before his scarring) were idealists who bent the rules in the name of capital-g Good. The mob had their own code of ethics ("honor... respect") and Ra's al Ghul was trying, in his way, to save the world from crime. Even the Joker was dedicated to his ideals of anarchy.

Gordon, however, bends and breaks the rules not out of dedication to an ideal but out of a desire for an ill-defined sense of order. Gordon represents the people of Gotham, who want security but are too scared to take a true stand against crime. The citizens of Gotham support Batman's war on the mob when it is only Batman's life on the line, but turn on Batman as soon as the Joker starts killing citizens.

This is why Gordon makes it through the movie intact and with his loved ones alive. In the Nolan-Batman-universe, idealists are doomed to smash up against other idealists until everyone is broken. The only way to avoid breaking is to bend.

Exceptional.

 

[KRIM]

It may as well be murder, an affair is an affair, it changes the perspective people have on a character instantly. It doesn't matter if he's still a good guy underneath, he just cheated on his wife and that drags him down a level. Gordon has to remain the one good person in amongst the madness, he's gotta be the everyman, he's gotta be the lone voice of sanity.

So you subscribe to Rachel's philosophy of "It's not who you are underneath, but what you do that defines you"? In which case, Gordon is far from wholly innocent. The climax of TDK works so well because all 3 men of the law were all facing each other with the mistakes they've made. Gordon's apology to Dent wasn't out of desperation, it was completely honest. There is guilt there as he is partly responsible for the terrible spiral that led to Rachel's death and Dent's downfall. It is something he carries with tremendous regret, I'm sure. Deliberately working with crooked cops, not listening to Dent, following Batman's lead which is unlawful -- good intentions, but ultimately ill advised. Anyone that thinks Gordon is strictly by the books is not paying close attention. He is the everyman, but one whose options are consistently limited and is forced to work with what is given. At times that means he has to bend the rules for what he hopes is for the better. As you can see Gordon tried to do everything right and still failed to live up to his own expectations. Once again, morally gray.

Joker is the only absolute.

See, I felt like the "the one person in the whole series to show a sense of dignity and conviction" was Rachel. Rachel fought the mob, but never condoned extra-legal vigilante justice, whereas Gordon was willing to work side-by-side with not only an outlaw vigilante but with crooked cops. Rachel was appalled by dishonesty and refused to abide by Harvey taking the blame for being Batman, whereas Gordon took part in a conspiracy to frame an innocent man for multiple homicides in order to preserve the public image of the real killer. Gordon is guilty of all the crimes Batman is guilty of, with the addition of hypocrisy, since he is a cop.

Gordon is the most morally compromised character in the whole series. Batman and Dent (before his scarring) were idealists who bent the rules in the name of capital-g Good. The mob had their own code of ethics ("honor... respect") and Ra's al Ghul was trying, in his way, to save the world from crime. Even the Joker was dedicated to his ideals of anarchy.

Gordon, however, bends and breaks the rules not out of dedication to an ideal but out of a desire for an ill-defined sense of order. Gordon represents the people of Gotham, who want security but are too scared to take a true stand against crime. The citizens of Gotham support Batman's war on the mob when it is only Batman's life on the line, but turn on Batman as soon as the Joker starts killing citizens.

This is why Gordon makes it through the movie intact and with his loved ones alive. In the Nolan-Batman-universe, idealists are doomed to smash up against other idealists until everyone is broken. The only way to avoid breaking is to bend.

Yup.

 

[aandfrugby25]

Bale can do a convincing American accent. Faking an accent isn't something anyone can do. It's a skill. It's especially hard if you aren't a native speaker of the language.

The Brittish and the Aussies have and easier time doing American than the French do. The British can almost always tell when an American is doing an English accent. But anyway for a French person to pull of an American is tough.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Marion is a great actress, but she's not a native english speaker. It's more difficult for her because she had to learn the language and pull out a perfect accent. It's almost impossible for a french to pass for an american like it's almost impossible for an american to pass for a french.
To all the english speaking actors/actresses I know, only Jodie Foster could almost pass for a french, but that's only because she has always been in french schools and despite this, she still has a little accent sometimes.

In my opinion, they want Marion for Talia or a new character (a foreign one). I think she would make a great Talia.

Are you under the impression that only native English speakers can speak in a perfect accent? You couldn't me more wrong my friend. And these are actors we're talking about, accents and believability are a part of their craft. The same goes for any other languages. To me, this is an absurd notion, and not the good kind.

Bale can do a convincing American accent. Faking an accent isn't something anyone can do. It's a skill. It's especially hard if you aren't a native speaker of the language.

^ That's a valid point you bring up there actually. Maybe we've all been too quick to assume the love interest is for Bruce. Something to ponder.

I've been saying this for a long time

The only other person she could be a love interest for is Gordon.

Would Nolan really go the "Gordon has an affair" route with the very altruistic Gordon?

I believe iamcitizen made a very strong post regarding this. And I wouldn't worry about an affair affecting his altruism, the only way it can be irksome is his marriage, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was ruined after what happened in TDK. I know it's too cynical a notion, but not one that can be refuted until we know otherwise. In addition, the Sarah Essen character brings to the table another by-the-book figure who is willing to expose the corruption that's in Gotham City, as citizen just said, Gordon too has bent certain rules. Sarah, a cop with an attitude, would be a much better addition than Bullock or Talia, or even Janice Porter since Porter works best as a corrupted DA. I'm also a bit tired of seeing DAs at this point. Sarah Essen is more than just the gal Jim had a fling with in the early days. She's his most compatible wife.

 

[aandfrugby25]

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