MCU Fight: Hela Vs. Thanos (Power Stone)

[jaqua99]

Most people seem to think they do, they usually point to Ronan in GOTG 1 as an example idk about that one though it wasn't very clear imo. Logically though it IS the Power Stone so it would make sense for it to increase your physical strength.

However the Reality Stone most definitely gave Malekith a HUGE stat boost, that was undeniable.

He was using it though, he was using its power and absorbed it into his body.

 

[Thör-El]

Skill likely goes to Hela. Thanos trained Gamora, the deadliest woman in the galaxy. Thanos stomped Hulk with skill. He also has never lost in hand to hand combat, which says something. The advantage Hela has here isn't enough to make a difference imo.

She has an athletic and speed edge though. And versatility, and practical use in power.

Thanos has a strength advantage.

Durability edge goes to Thanos by a significant margine. Thor's big lightning blast incapacitated Hela for a few minutes. Thanos literally no sold a lightning blast from a (literally) bloodlust, out for kill Thor, and we saw how she was durable enough to withstand physical hits from Thor, the lightning blast did have a brief impact. Is Hela's magic swords enough to KO someone as durable as her? Much less way more durable than her in Thanos? That's tough to answer.

This is another fight that goes back and forth for a while, with a hit count in favor of 2-1 Hela. She will be more overwhelmed while outskilling Thanos, who more or less will take everything she has to throw. Eventually it'll turn into a slugfest and Thanos will land a punch that will open her up to a series of combos before getting an advantage, and taking control of the fight. He wins in a good fight.

Looks like we agree about Hela's skill and speed advantage.

I think strength is arguable. Thanos doesn't have that many strength feats besides overpowering Hulk yet and we also saw limits to his strength when weaker opponents managed to temporarily restrain him. Hela's fighting style isn't really strength oriented but she was still overpowering Thor, she was able to casually crush Mjolnir with one hand (Hulk couldn't even lift it) and we didn't really see any limits to her strength (e.g. a character restraining her).

As for durability, I can see your logic but I'm not sold on the strength of Thor's lightning being the same in those scenes. Thor use the lightning to blindside Thanos and went for a killer blow with the axe whereas in Ragnarok lightning was all he had and he gave it his all.
That brings us back to the point I was making before which is that logically Hela's Thor's physically superior sister and should be capable of the ridiculous durability feats we've seen from him (above what we've seen from Thanos) plus Hela has a ridiculous healing factor whereas without the gauntlet I don't think Thanos has one at all.

As for Hela's swords, if they can cut through Thor and Surtur Prime then they'll cut through Thanos.

Oh wait, power gem only?

First of all, we all realize Thanos vs Hulk was base Thanos, right? Didnt use the gem and there is no evidence or feats to suggest it provides a physical stat boost.

So Thanos with the power stone here, a weapon that could have crushed Thor's skull easily, could destroy a world, and shoot energy blasts? Thanos with the power stone wins quickly. No stone and its a fight.

How does anyone KO Thanos though?

For me, the power stone is what gives Thanos a serious chance in this fight. Thing is though:
#1) Will he use it straight away? (in character he often doesn't immediately resort to the gauntlet).
#2) If he does use it straight away will he use the full force of it? (Thor survived him using it for torture and blowing up the Asgardian ship and even Iron Man survived his blasts).
#3) If he is going all out trying to use the power gem to kill Hela will he be able to hit her before she takes him out? (Hela has infinite swords that can one shot Asgardians, cut through Thor and impale Surtur Prime and she will be going for the head. The power gem just means they both have ranged attacks that can take out the other.)

Most people seem to think they do, they usually point to Ronan in GOTG 1 as an example idk about that one though it wasn't very clear imo. Logically though it IS the Power Stone so it would make sense for it to increase your physical strength.

However the Reality Stone most definitely gave Malekith a HUGE stat boost, that was undeniable.

I think at the very least it amped Ronan's durability and allowed him to survive the crash that killed everyone else on board (except the Guardians who were saved by Groot).
I agree on Malekith, it gave him a huge strength/durability amp and he didn't need to consciously use it to survive each of Thor's hits.

 

[Finarfiniel]

For me, the power stone is what gives Thanos a serious chance in this fight. Thing is though:
#1) Will he use it straight away? (in character he often doesn't immediately resort to the gauntlet).
#2) If he does use it straight away will he use the full force of it? (Thor survived him using it for torture and blowing up the Asgardian ship and even Iron Man survived his blasts).
#3) If he is going all out trying to use the power gem to kill Hela will he be able to hit her before she takes him out? (Hela has infinite swords that can one shot Asgardians, cut through Thor and impale Surtur Prime and she will be going for the head. The power gem just means they both have ranged attacks that can take out the other.)

I agree with all of your post, but the bolded is yet another huge advantage to Hela IMO. Would Thanos even have any idea who Hela is? That's highly unlikely considering that not even the Asgardians even had any clue that Hela existed and she's the daughter of their king! If Thanos doesn't know who Hela is and how ridiculously powerful she is then he would inevitably massively underestimate her. And that right there is automatically a huge advantage on her end. Does she look like one of the most powerful beings in the universe? Of course not, she looks like a slim woman who in Thanos' eyes could be no more physically powerful than a trained fighter like Gamora or Proxima. But of course, she's vastly stronger and more powerful than both of them combined.

So, why would Thanos have any reason to use the power stone on her straight away if he assumes he could easily take her without it? And of course, by the time that Thanos learns his big mistake and sees how skilled and powerful she is, she's already eviscerated him, stolen the power stone ("That's not bad." ) and waltzed off to go and torment her little brother some more. t:

 

[BigThor]

Huh?

Darren Till is a MMA fighter from Liverpool, he's the guy in the grey shorts.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I said Hela and i'm pretty confident. My reason being basically this: Hela > Thanos > Ronan (no power stones). And I dont think Ronan could have taken Thanos even with a power stone.

Therefore: Thanos > Ronan (with power stone), so Hela > Thanos (with power stone).

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Darren Till is a MMA fighter from Liverpool, he's the guy in the grey shorts.

Ah okay thanks. Not a MMA fan but have heard his name before. I think he would lose to Thanos, same as Hela

 

[Spider-Fan]

I agree with all of your post, but the bolded is yet another huge advantage to Hela IMO. Would Thanos even have any idea who Hela is? That's highly unlikely considering that not even the Asgardians even had any clue that Hela existed and she's the daughter of their king! If Thanos doesn't know who Hela is and how ridiculously powerful she is then he would inevitably massively underestimate her. And that right there is automatically a huge advantage on her end. Does she look like one of the most powerful beings in the universe? Of course not, she looks like a slim woman who in Thanos' eyes could be no more physically powerful than a trained fighter like Gamora or Proxima. But of course, she's vastly stronger and more powerful than both of them combined.

So, why would Thanos have any reason to use the power stone on her straight away if he assumes he could easily take her without it? And of course, by the time that Thanos learns his big mistake and sees how skilled and powerful she is, she's already eviscerated him, stolen the power stone ("That's not bad." ) and waltzed off to go and torment her little brother some more. t:

How would Hela know who Thanos is? Isn't she just as likely to underestimate him? I don't see this point.

 

[Thör-El]

How would Hela know who Thanos is? Isn't she just as likely to underestimate him? I don't see this point.

The point is that if Thanos underestimates Hela then it's in character for him try to initially try to fight her without making full use of the power stone and that'll be a fatal error.

If Hela doesn't know who Thanos is she'll still use her full power against him anyway.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The point is that if Thanos underestimates Hela then it's in character for him try to initially try to fight her without making full use of the power stone and that'll be a fatal error.

If Hela doesn't know who Thanos is she'll still use her full power against him anyway.

Why wouldn't Thanos use his full force against her? When was he shown to do that?

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I'd imagine if Thanos was up against someone as powerful as Hela, he'd very likely use the power stone.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'd imagine if Thanos was up against someone as powerful as Hela, he'd very likely use the power stone.

It's also not like Thanos would get one shotted by her. He's durable. The second he realizes he is in trouble, POWER STONE! Thanos is stated to be the most clever character in the MCU. Why would he make such dumb mistakes that people are coming up with?

 

[Finarfiniel]

How would Hela know who Thanos is? Isn't she just as likely to underestimate him? I don't see this point.

Hela doesn't need to know who Thanos is. She knows what the infinity gauntlet is (enough to know that the one in Odin's treasure room was fake at least), therefore if she sees a giant brute like Thanos coming towards her wearing such a gauntlet, she would automatically know that it's potentially bad news for her. And what you're continously ignoring here is that Thanos and Hela have very different personalities. Hela is way, way more ruthless than Thanos. She kills because she enjoys it, not because of any tragically misguided ideals and beliefs she holds like Thanos. Did she have to kill the Warriors Three? Did she have to kill the entire Asgardian army? No, they were no real threat to her, but she did it anyway because she loves killing and it thrills her to do it. "Oh I missed this!"

Thanos is way more pragmatic than that, so where he may hesitate (which he likely would do if he doesn't understand who he's dealing with), Hela isn't going to. She'll go straight in for the kill because that fits what we know of her personality.

Why wouldn't Thanos use his full force against her? When was he shown to do that?

He didn't use the power stone against Hulk even though he could have done and made that fight even quicker. Like I say, he's a pragmatic fighter and he's a thinker, he doesn't use full force unless he deems he needs to.

I'd imagine if Thanos was up against someone as powerful as Hela, he'd very likely use the power stone.

But that's exactly the point that I and Thör-El are making, if Thanos knows how powerful Hela is then I agree that he would likely use the power stone straight away. But how exactly is he going to know that? Hela has been locked away for thousands of years and Odin effectively re-wrote history so that no one knew she ever existed, not even the Asgardians. So how exactly is Thanos going to have any idea who he's dealing with?

It's also not like Thanos would get one shotted by her. He's durable. The second he realizes he is in trouble, POWER STONE! Thanos is stated to be the most clever character in the MCU. Why would he make such dumb mistakes that people are coming up with?

And that's where some of us in this thread clearly disagree, I think under the right circumstances Hela could one shot Thanos. Not with a punch, that's not Hela's style, but if she does to him what she did to Prime Surtur at the end of Ragnarok before he has a chance to react, that's bye bye Thanos. Spikes the size of skyscrapers! Massive earth structures that are big enough to crush people and skewer spaceships!

And no one is calling Thanos dumb btw, I completely agree that he's very likely the most intelligent and pragmatic character in the MCU. But a person doesn't have to be dumb to wildly underestimate their opponent if they don't have a clue who they're up against.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Hela doesn't need to know who Thanos is. She knows what the infinity gauntlet is (enough to know that the one in Odin's treasure room was fake at least), therefore if she sees a giant brute like Thanos coming towards her wearing such a gauntlet, she would automatically know that it's potentially bad news for her. And what you're continously ignoring here is that Thanos and Hela have very different personalities. Hela is way, way more ruthless than Thanos. She kills because she enjoys it, not because of any tragically misguided ideals and beliefs she holds like Thanos. Did she have to kill the Warriors Three? Did she have to kill the entire Asgardian army? No, they were no real threat to her, but she did it anyway because she loves killing and it thrills her to do it. "Oh I missed this!"

Thanos is way more pragmatic than that, so where he may hesitate (which he likely would do if he doesn't understand who he's dealing with), Hela isn't going to. She'll go straight in for the kill because that fits what we know of her personality.



He didn't use the power stone against Hulk even though he could have done and made that fight even quicker. Like I say, he's a pragmatic fighter and he's a thinker, he doesn't use full force unless he deems he needs to.



But that's exactly the point that I and Thör-El are making, if Thanos knows how powerful Hela is then I agree that he would likely use the power stone straight away. But how exactly is he going to know that? Hela has been locked away for thousands of years and Odin effectively re-wrote history so that no one knew she ever existed, not even the Asgardians. So how exactly is Thanos going to have any idea who he's dealing with?



And that's where some of us in this thread clearly disagree, I think under the right circumstances Hela could one shot Thanos. Not with a punch, that's not Hela's style, but if she does to him what she did to Prime Surtur at the end of Ragnarok before he has a chance to react, that's bye bye Thanos. Spikes the size of skyscrapers! Massive earth structures that are big enough to crush people and skewer spaceships!

And no one is calling Thanos dumb btw, I completely agree that he's very likely the most intelligent and pragmatic character in the MCU. But a person doesn't have to be dumb to wildly underestimate their opponent if they don't have a clue who they're up against.

He didn't solely because he knew he didn't need it. If he is in a fight where it is very clear that he needs it, he will. Without hesitation and without mercy.

 

[BigThor]

Thor better get a full fledged "onscreen" one on one with Thanos in Avengers 4......

 

[Finarfiniel]

He didn't solely because he knew he didn't need it. If he is in a fight where it is very clear that he needs it, he will. Without hesitation and without mercy.

But again, you're still ignoring the point that I and others are continually trying to make here. If Thanos doesn't know how powerful Hela is, then how exactly is it going to be 'clear' to him that he needs to use the power stone straight away? Again, if Thanos makes the understandable mistake of underestimating Hela (not because he's dumb, but because he has no idea who she is and let's face it, she doesn't immediately look like a massive threat to him, especially if she isn't seemingly armed which she often isn't... at first), that will give Hela enough time to go in hard and fast for the kill and crush him or skewer him to pieces before he even has a chance to react and use the stone.

 

[Spider-Fan]

But again, you're still ignoring the point that I and others are continually trying to make here. If Thanos doesn't know how powerful Hela is, then how exactly is it going to be 'clear' to him that he needs to use the power stone straight away? Again, if Thanos makes the understandable mistake of underestimating Hela (not because he's dumb, but because he has no idea who she is and let's face it, she doesn't immediately look like a massive threat to him, especially if she isn't seemingly armed which she often isn't... at first), that will give Hela enough time to go in hard and fast for the kill and crush him or skewer him to pieces before he even has a chance to react and use the stone.

And again, why should I think Hela could 1 shot him? You are also not providing me anything on this front. Yeah, she can make a blade mountain. That wouldn't instantly kill him. He'd have reaction time and a power stone. So you guys are doing the same thing in assuming Thanos will suddenly have zero strategy and die easily.

 

[Finarfiniel]

And again, why should I think Hela could 1 shot him? You are also not providing me anything on this front. Yeah, she can make a blade mountain. That wouldn't instantly kill him. He'd have reaction time and a power stone. So you guys are doing the same thing in assuming Thanos will suddenly have zero strategy and die easily.

We've never seen Thanos and Hela fight on screen, so this all merely assumptions based on what the films have shown us about their respective powers, but I completely disagree that Hela's blades couldn't instantly kill Thanos. Because he is not invulnerable. We know for a fact that he can be pierced and injured by powerful bladed weapons, and that's uh, kinda Hela's speciality? Her gigantic, super fast, skyscraper-sized blades even managed to make Prime Surtur stumble, a being that is top transendantal level and as tall as a frickin' mountain. If you're trying to tell me that a projectile blade that huge and fast couldn't kill the comparatively tiny Thanos instantly (by slicing him in half or crushing him to paste) then I'm sorry but I have to say hel(l) to the no.

 

[BigThor]

We've never seen Thanos and Hela fight on screen, so this all merely assumptions based on what the films have shown us about their respective powers, but I completely disagree that Hela's blades couldn't instantly kill Thanos. Because he is not invulnerable. We know for a fact that he can be pierced and injured by powerful bladed weapons, and that's uh, kinda Hela's speciality? Her gigantic, super fast, skyscraper-sized blades even managed to make Prime Surtur stumble, a being that is top transendantal level and as tall as a frickin' mountain. If you're trying to tell me that a projectile blade that huge and fast couldn't kill the comparatively tiny Thanos instantly (by slicing him in half or crushing him to paste) then I'm sorry but I have to say hel(l) to the no.

He's saying Thanos would react to it and either dodge it or block/parry/destroy them with the Power Stone.

 

[Spider-Fan]

We've never seen Thanos and Hela fight on screen, so this all merely assumptions based on what the films have shown us about their respective powers, but I completely disagree that Hela's blades couldn't instantly kill Thanos. Because he is not invulnerable. We know for a fact that he can be pierced and injured by powerful bladed weapons, and that's uh, kinda Hela's speciality? Her gigantic, super fast, skyscraper-sized blades even managed to make Prime Surtur stumble, a being that is top transendantal level and as tall as a frickin' mountain. If you're trying to tell me that a projectile blade that huge and fast couldn't kill the comparatively tiny Thanos instantly (by slicing him in half or crushing him to paste) then I'm sorry but I have to say hel(l) to the no.

It took Hela time for her to make that type of blade. It wasn't like her hands ones that came instantly. That mountain had to come out of the ground and such first. It will take her more time to do that than say Loki in IW. Loki in close proximity could not stab him before he reacted. I don't think he is going to stay still long enough to get hit before he makes a fist and uses the stone.

 

[Finarfiniel]

He's saying Thanos would react to it and either dodge it or block/parry/destroy them with the Power Stone.

You're right, and that may be so, but I maintain that Hela has enough advantages to win this fight. She has the speed advantage, the skill advantage, the strength advantage (IMO), the being able to defy gravity advantage, the endless spontaneous pointy weapons and massive projectile things advantage, e.t.c. The only real advantage that Thanos has is the power stone, and in my mind if Star-Lord and Iron Man can withstand the power of the stone for at least a short time (by holding it and withstanding blasts from it respectively), then Hela can definitely withstand it for longer than they can. Not forever obviously, but for long enough to beat Thanos in a physical fight.

She wouldn't win it easily, but she definitely could.

 

[Docker2.0]

Not to mention that if Thanos wanted to kill Thor in that instance he could have. Hela tried to kill Thor in combat and failed, twice. Have to go with Thanos here.

This. It seems like Thanos was toying around with the Avengers. Remember Cap stopped Thanos for a second with the Infinity Gauntlet? No way would that happen if Thanos really wanted to squash them. Even with Thor, I don't think Thanos went all out. He may have gotten a little cocky with the Gauntlet. Also, Stormbreaker was tailor made to beat Thanos, giving Thor specific powers for that reason. If Stormbreaker was made for Hela, he may have taken her out easier than what originally happened.

 

[Finarfiniel]

^^ I didn't see that 'Hela failed to kill Thor in combat' argument before, but that's another false equivalency because, as already pointed out in this thread, Hela was clearly toying with Thor in the throne room scene, nothing more. She already knew that Thor was no match for her so she was playing with him, like a cat sometimes plays with it's prey before it kills it. She mocked him ("To be honest, I was expecting more"), threw him about a little, slashed his eye out and then dragged him to the balcony to witness Fenris kill Heimdall and the escaping Asgardians. She was torturing him, if she'd wanted to kill him at that moment she would have done.

Also, Stormbreaker was tailor made to beat Thanos, giving Thor specific powers for that reason. If Stormbreaker was made for Hela, he may have taken her out easier than what originally happened.

Oh come on, that's a bit of a deus ex machina. Any character could beat any character if they had a weapon that was specifically designed to kill that particular character and gave them the specific powers to do it.

 

[Docker2.0]

^^ I didn't see that 'Hela failed to kill Thor in combat' argument before, but that's another false equivalency because, as already pointed out in this thread, Hela was clearly toying with Thor in the throne room scene, nothing more. She already knew that Thor was no match for her so she was playing with him, like a cat sometimes plays with it's prey before it kills it. She mocked him ("To be honest, I was expecting more"), threw him about a little, slashed his eye out and then dragged him to the balcony to witness Fenris kill Heimdall and the escaping Asgardians. She was torturing him, if she'd wanted to kill him at that moment she would have done.



Oh come on, that's a bit of a deus ex machina. Any character could beat any character if they had a weapon that was specifically designed to kill that particular character and gave them the specific powers to do it.

What?! That's exactly what was said in the movie.

 

[hisham]

What?! That's exactly what was said in the movie.

wepon for the future king of asgard not to kill thanos

 

[Thör-El]

This. It seems like Thanos was toying around with the Avengers.

I agree Thanos enjoyed fighting without the gauntlet, he did it against Hulk. He did it again against Iron Man, Dr Strange, Spidey and the Guardians and it almost cost him the fight. He did it against Scarlet Witch and she was able to hold him back with one hand whilst destroying an Infinity Stone with the other.

It would be very much in character for him to do it against Hela and - since she'll go for the kill immediately and outclasses him without the power stone - that would cost him the fight.

And even if Thanos does start using the power stone straight away it'll only even the odds since Hela has the speed to dodge and she has her own ranged attacks capable of one shotting.

Not to mention that if Thanos wanted to kill Thor in that instance he could have. Hela tried to kill Thor in combat and failed, twice. Have to go with Thanos here.

I'm repeating myself now but this argument just doesn't hold water. Hela toyed with Thor, overpowered/outskilled him and easily could've killed him. Then she quickly took him out again even when he'd tapped into his lightning powers.

As for Thanos he somehow beat Thor offscreen then left him for dead by blowing up his ship with the power gem and that's all we know. Like I keep saying, it could've been a long difficult fight, he could've used the power gem, taken Thor by surprise or had the Black Order backing him up. Or - my personal theory - Thor probably couldn't use his lightning inside the spaceship full of refugees.
Hela's showing against Thor is far more impressive than the Thor vs Thanos mystery fight.

Remember Cap stopped Thanos for a second with the Infinity Gauntlet? No way would that happen if Thanos really wanted to squash them. Even with Thor, I don't think Thanos went all out. He may have gotten a little cocky with the Gauntlet.

I think the Cap resisting Thanos hand/arm feat was legit. Cap was going all out using his full body strength just to stop Thanos closing his fist/using the gauntlet. The guy has ten ton plus lifting feats and can bicep curl a helicopter but he only managed to resist Thanos for a couple of seconds.

As for Thanos vs Stormbreaker Thor, it overpowered the blast from the completed Infinity Gauntlet and near enough one shotted Thanos. It's an incredible feat and by Thanos own admission would've killed him instantly if he'd went for the head. I don't see why Thanos wouldn't have put his full strength into preventing his moment of victory being snatched from him.

My take is that the MCU gauntlet blasts aren't nearly as impressive as the reality warping it's capable of (which yeah, he could've used to stop Stormbreaker if he'd had more time to think/react).

Also, Stormbreaker was tailor made to beat Thanos, giving Thor specific powers for that reason. If Stormbreaker was made for Hela, he may have taken her out easier than what originally happened.

I don't know where you're getting the tailor made to beat Thanos idea. It's powerful enough to challenge Thanos with but it wasn't specifically designed for doing that. Eitri had already designed it and made the mouldings when Thor came to him looking for a weapon he could kill Thanos with.

All Eitri ever said was that Stormbreaker was designed as
"A king's weapon. Meant to be the greatest in Asgard. In theory, it could even summon the Bifrost"
Given the name I think it's fair to assume it was designed for Thor to replace Mjolnir and channel his full power once he became King.

And no one is calling Thanos dumb btw, I completely agree that he's very likely the most intelligent and pragmatic character in the MCU. But a person doesn't have to be dumb to wildly underestimate their opponent if they don't have a clue who they're up against.

I don't think I'd go that far. Thanos is an intelligent schemer/fighter with serious willpower but his plan to kill half of all life in the universe as a solution to overpopulation is deranged. The arbitrary 50:50 is nonsensical and the populations will recover within a couple of generations and in the meantime they'll use more resources to cope/rebuild. He could've done way cleverer/saner things to pursue the same goals with that snap.