MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[VictusMortuus]

Spideys too quick for Killian to take him out. He can just avoid whatever Killian throws at him until he gets the ko.

 

[Luigi]

Aldrich Killian

Peter is quick but Killian is quite agile himself and would only need a few openings to harm him. Yes, Pepper did defeat Killian but that was after he had been put through numerous explosions and he was still mobile, albeit slower. Not to mention that Peter lacks the necessary firepower to defeat Killian.

 

[Batmannerism]

Aldrich Killian

Peter is quick but Killian is quite agile himself and would only need a few openings to harm him. Yes, Pepper did defeat Killian but that was after he had been put through numerous explosions and he was still mobile, albeit slower. Not to mention that Peter lacks the necessary firepower to defeat Killian.

What if he webs Killian for a moment and then activates instant kill ? Honestly I think the more likely scenario for Spidey winning is with Killian self destructing from unstable extremis tech.

 

[Docker2.0]

Aldrich Killian

Peter is quick but Killian is quite agile himself and would only need a few openings to harm him. Yes, Pepper did defeat Killian but that was after he had been put through numerous explosions and he was still mobile, albeit slower. Not to mention that Peter lacks the necessary firepower to defeat Killian.

 

[Docker2.0]

Spideys too quick for Killian to take him out. He can just avoid whatever Killian throws at him until he gets the ko.

Killian has shown he's pretty agile himself with his upgrades. Plus, I'm not sure Spidey can actually kill him. IronMan has more power and he actually couldn't.

 

[VictusMortuus]

Killian has shown he's pretty agile himself with his upgrades. Plus, I'm not sure Spidey can actually kill him. IronMan has more power and he actually couldn't.

Killian is agile but not at the level of Spidey and with how easily he was dispatching Thanos soldiers with the iron-spider suit, soldiers that I’m sure were recruited by Thanos for being pretty tough, I find it difficult to believe Killian would defeat Spidey in the IS suit.

 

[Docker2.0]

Killian is agile but not at the level of Spidey and with how easily he was dispatching Thanos soldiers with the iron-spider suit, soldiers that I’m sure were recruited by Thanos for being pretty tough, I find it difficult to believe Killian would defeat Spidey in the IS suit.

Spiderman can be hit. The Vulture and Shocker hit him and they are not even super powered. Killian is and a lot more deadlier. All it would take is one time and he could tear through the Iron Suit like it's nothing.

 

[VictusMortuus]

Spiderman can be hit. The Vulture and Shocker hit him and they are not even super powered. Killian is and a lot more deadlier. All it would take is one time and he could tear through the Iron Suit like it's nothing.

I think with his sense being more developed after FFH he’d win. Pre FFH I’d say 50/50

 

[Luigi]

What if he webs Killian for a moment and then activates instant kill ? Honestly I think the more likely scenario for Spidey winning is with Killian self destructing from unstable extremis tech.

If he goes for instant kill, he would have to get close enough to hurt Killian and therein lies the problem. Killian could either breathe fire on him or withstand the hits long enough to burn through the web to get a hold of Peter.

As for the self-destruction, Killian seemed much more stable than his goons.

 

[Shuri]

Killian. The guy only needs one hit and he would tear through the suit, but spidey can't put him down easily.

 

[Docker2.0]

We got ourself a 3-3 tie. Next up:

Helmut Zemo

vs the Kingpin

Who you got peeps?

 

[VictusMortuus]

Kingpin, Zemo displayed zero fighting skill in his one appearance so far. Kingpin would uncover whatever scheme Zemo was trying to pull off and crush his skull in a car door. Zemo would be disposed of with ease.

 

[Docker2.0]

Kingpin, Zemo displayed zero fighting skill in his one appearance so far. Kingpin would uncover whatever scheme Zemo was trying to pull off and crush his skull in a car door. Zemo would be disposed of with ease.

See that's the easy answer! Zemo would scheme and plan behind the scenes before actually confronting Kingpin. He's a master manipulator and plays chess while everyone else is playing checkers. I also believe he has a military background so he's not just some "Turk" on the street.

 

[VictusMortuus]

See that's the easy answer! Zemo would scheme and plan behind the scenes before actually confronting Kingpin. He's a master manipulator and plays chess while everyone else is playing checkers. I also believe he has a military background so he's not just some "Turk" on the street.

I agree Zemo is a very skilled manipulator, however I believe Kingpin is even more skilled at the art and would be one step ahead of Zemo. 9/10 times I’d hand this to Fisk.

 

[Docker2.0]

I agree Zemo is a very skilled manipulator, however I believe Kingpin is even more skilled at the art and would be one step ahead of Zemo. 9/10 times I’d hand this to Fisk.

 

[Batmannerism]

See that's the easy answer! Zemo would scheme and plan behind the scenes before actually confronting Kingpin. He's a master manipulator and plays chess while everyone else is playing checkers. I also believe he has a military background so he's not just some "Turk" on the street.

The Kingpin is a criminal mastermind who's greatest strength is manipulation of people by threatening who and what they care about.

He is a tough and skilled street brawler.

Zemo was a military officer, a Colonel, who ran an assassination squad. He's a master planner, endlessly patient and willing to die to achieve his goals. Also, and most importantly he has no one and nothing, there is literally nothing the Kingpin could use to apply leverage to him. He's not a merciless killer, but if Kingpin stood between him and his objective then he does what he has to do.

In hand to hand Zemo probably has the skill level of a relatively elite soldier.

My money is on Zemo 8/10.

 

[Docker2.0]

The Kingpin is a criminal mastermind who's greatest strength is manipulation of people by threatening who and what they care about.

He is a tough and skilled street brawler.

Zemo was a military officer, a Colonel, who ran an assassination squad. He's a master planner, endlessly patient and willing to die to achieve his goals. Also, and most importantly he has no one and nothing, there is literally nothing the Kingpin could use to apply leverage to him. He's not a merciless killer, but if Kingpin stood between him and his objective then he does what he has to do.

In hand to hand Zemo probably has the skill level of a relatively elite soldier.

My money is on Zemo 8/10.

 

[VictusMortuus]

I respect your opinions.

You’re all wrong.

 

[Luigi]

Kingpin

He was able to tank Daredevil's best hits and was throwing him around like a sack of potatoes. Zemo is skilled but Kingpin has his size and durability to help him in a fight.

 

[Batmannerism]

Kingpin

He was able to tank Daredevil's best hits and was throwing him around like a sack of potatoes. Zemo is skilled but Kingpin has his size and durability to help him in a fight.

This is true, but Daredevil fights sort of fair - and dumb, and is not a killer.

Zemo will ambush and use weapons- he kills when he needs to. I don't see Kingpin being up to that level of threat. Kingpin is tough but Zemo is a lot more dangerous than Daredevil - and more dangerous than Kingpin. Kingpin can take down Daredevil, but Zemo nearly destroyed the Avengers.

I give Kingpin at least 2/10, where his raw physical power is too much ( eg when he overpowered and crippled Dex, the MCU version of Bullseye ).

Otherwise I see Zemo being too crafty. In a straight up fight Kingpin has some big advantages - but Zemo does not engage in straight up fights.

 

[Bayne]

This is possibly the most interesting match there's been in this thread, but I really think you guys are overlooking something important here.

Kingpin and Zemo are both physically capable, but we can't entirely compare them physically because we never saw Zemo get into a big fight (because his manipulation worked so well that he never needed to fight). Though in that respect, we can at the very least say that Zemo will use any weapon he needs to use, whereas Kingpin went straight for the physical beatdown when he had to go beyond manipulation, so I give a slight edge to Zemo in a direct confrontation.

Manipulation wise, they are both incredibly effective and arguably evenly matched, except - and this is the thing everyone seems to have forgotten - Kingpin has a history of distraction and an easy and obvious point of leverage. Kingpin at his best is a real match for Zemo. But he won't be at his best anymore once Zemo brings Vanessa into the mix.

One way or the other, Zemo wins in the end.

 

[Batmannerism]

This is possibly the most interesting match there's been in this thread, but I really think you guys are overlooking something important here.

Kingpin and Zemo are both physically capable, but we can't entirely compare them physically because we never saw Zemo get into a big fight (because his manipulation worked so well that he never needed to fight). Though in that respect, we can at the very least say that Zemo will use any weapon he needs to use, whereas Kingpin went straight for the physical beatdown when he had to go beyond manipulation, so I give a slight edge to Zemo in a direct confrontation.

Manipulation wise, they are both incredibly effective and arguably evenly matched, except - and this is the thing everyone seems to have forgotten - Kingpin has a history of distraction and an easy and obvious point of leverage. Kingpin at his best is a real match for Zemo. But he won't be at his best anymore once Zemo brings Vanessa into the mix.

One way or the other, Zemo wins in the end.

Yeah, the leverage issue is key for me. There are ways to leverage Kingpin, but Zemo has no family, friends or anything that can be used to manipulate him - except for his all consuming desire to destroy the Avengers, but I'm not sure how Kingpin could use that against him, whereas Vanessa is such an obvious leverage point that even Daredevil could use her against Kingpin.

Zemo would do what he did with the Avengers- spend a year studying Kingpin, painstakingly deciphering every hidden aspect of his life, and then attack when Fisk was least prepared.

Another key point of difference, while In a straight up physical brawl Kingpin has an obvious strength and toughness advantage, BUT Zemo doesn't care whether he lives or dies, and that makes him almost unstoppable.

Zemo also plays a long game. He doesn't have a criminal empire to maintain, or other concerns. When he wants you dead he makes you his whole existence. And he doesn't just want to kill you, but to take away everything you care about.

Before the fight with Fisk ever started Zemo would have Vanessa stashed in the trunk of a car and wired up with explosives - so that if Fisk beat him, she'd die and Fisk would lose everything he cared about.

Against that kind of commitment I think a lot of the less superhuman MCU characters would have a very difficult time indeed.

 

[Iceman]

What are the rules here? If you're allowed that much prep then anyone can buy a gun and shoot someone who could beat them in a fight. Zemo can manipulate the Avengers as they have many deepseated issues and are powerhouses whose powers he can use against each other. What would he do though against someone who is physically a clone of himself (ie no disadvantage to overcome through scheming) and watches Netflix all day (ie thoroughly uncomplicated)? I guess he could steal his TV remote.

 

[Batmannerism]

What are the rules here? If you're allowed that much prep then anyone can buy a gun and shoot someone who could beat them in a fight. Zemo can manipulate the Avengers as they have many deepseated issues and are powerhouses whose powers he can use against each other.

What would he do though against someone who is physically a clone of himself (ie no disadvantage to overcome through scheming) and watches Netflix all day (ie thoroughly uncomplicated)? I guess he could steal his TV remote.

Zemo would learn their watching preferences and patterns and then strike when they were engrossed in their favourite program - or use another EMP ( like he did in Civil War) and take out the power, thus disabling their wifi at a time when they were almost out of data.

 

[Iceman]

Zemo would learn their watching preferences and patterns and then strike when they were engrossed in their favourite program - or use another EMP ( like he did in Civil War) and take out the power, thus disabling their wifi at a time when they were almost out of data.

I love it