MCU vs thread....controversy and chaos

[Docker2.0]

This is possibly the most interesting match there's been in this thread, but I really think you guys are overlooking something important here.

Kingpin and Zemo are both physically capable, but we can't entirely compare them physically because we never saw Zemo get into a big fight (because his manipulation worked so well that he never needed to fight). Though in that respect, we can at the very least say that Zemo will use any weapon he needs to use, whereas Kingpin went straight for the physical beatdown when he had to go beyond manipulation, so I give a slight edge to Zemo in a direct confrontation.

Manipulation wise, they are both incredibly effective and arguably evenly matched, except - and this is the thing everyone seems to have forgotten - Kingpin has a history of distraction and an easy and obvious point of leverage. Kingpin at his best is a real match for Zemo. But he won't be at his best anymore once Zemo brings Vanessa into the mix.

One way or the other, Zemo wins in the end.

That would be so low!!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Both have great tactician skills and are very patient, but Kingpin has his resources and spies everywhere while Zemo is a loner.

Zemo can sabotage some pieces of Kingpin's operations, and Kingpin has some alliances that can be broken by Zemo's interference much like what happened with the Hand and the Russians broken alliances, Fisk was shown to act like a petulant child in certain situations that can cost him allies.


I thought this would be an easy win for Fisk, but he can ruin himself and Zemo doesn't share his faults, so this will be much harder on Kingpin than I initially thought.

 

[jolldan]

Got to go with Fisk here.

I’ve always seen these battles as a sort of Achilles heel for those who rely or are implied to require prep time to be at full strength.

Plus Zemo never showed any level of hand to hand or marksman skills, where as Fisk was a tank by human standards don’t think he displayed any marksman skills either so it’s got to come down to hand to hand for me and I don’t see Zemo surving the first exchange.

My mind could easily be changed once we see him in F&TWS if they give him an upgrade.

 

[Luigi]

This is true, but Daredevil fights sort of fair - and dumb, and is not a killer.

Zemo will ambush and use weapons- he kills when he needs to. I don't see Kingpin being up to that level of threat. Kingpin is tough but Zemo is a lot more dangerous than Daredevil - and more dangerous than Kingpin. Kingpin can take down Daredevil, but Zemo nearly destroyed the Avengers.

I give Kingpin at least 2/10, where his raw physical power is too much ( eg when he overpowered and crippled Dex, the MCU version of Bullseye ).

Otherwise I see Zemo being too crafty. In a straight up fight Kingpin has some big advantages - but Zemo does not engage in straight up fights.

The question is how much prep time would Zemo have for this fight? He would have to study Fisk long enough to feel confident about ambushing him.

 

[Batmannerism]

The question is how much prep time would Zemo have for this fight? He would have to study Fisk long enough to feel confident about ambushing him.

For Zemo to ambush Fisk, he would study him for at least six months - he studied the Avengers for an entire year before commencing his revenge plan.

If they met on the street Zemo would run, he only engages opponents on his own terms.

Yes, I'm a Zemo fan !

 

[Luigi]

Fair enough. I would still like to believe that Fisk would be ready for any type of confrontation so I'm sticking with him.

 

[Batmannerism]

Fair enough. I would still like to believe that Fisk would be ready for any type of confrontation so I'm sticking with him.

That's fine. In a straight up no weapons fight Fisk has size and strength advantages, that would probably be too much for Zemo - just I can't see Zemo being caught unawares like that.
The votes will sort it out in the end. Cheers.

 

[InCali]

Superman!

Wait...am I in Kansas? Toto? Toto? Are you there?

 

[InCali]

And we all feel the same.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm guessing it's 5-3 for Kingpin because some of you guys had your answers all over the place and I'm still not sure that it's right. But moving on............

Daredevil and Elektra

vs Hawkeye and Black Widow

Ninjas versus master assassins! Who you got peeps?!

 

[jolldan]

I'm guessing it's 5-3 for Kingpin because some of you guys had your answers all over the place and I'm still not sure that it's right. But moving on............

Daredevil and Elektra

vs Hawkeye and Black Widow

Ninjas versus master assassins! Who you got peeps?!

Clint and Nat for me probably a boring answer but I think we have just consistently seen them face off against and defeat more powerful opposition.

Most importantly though Nat’s packing heat lol and neither of them are quite bullet dodging level if I remember correctly and while Matt’s suit can take a few shots I don’t think Elektra’s can.

And in a two on one I think the Devil goes down especially with Clint having regular, explosive and melting arrows which I think would compromise Matt’s suit.

 

[Luigi]

Clint and Nat

Matt could probably dodge Clint's arrows but he certainly won't be able to dodge Nat's bullets. As for Elektra, she might be resurrected and stronger than before but she's definitely not impervious to damage from Clint's explosive or electrical arrows.

This might be a tough fight if Matt manages to disarm either Clint or Nat early on in the fight.

 

[Docker2.0]

Clint and Nat

Matt could probably dodge Clint's arrows but he certainly won't be able to dodge Nat's bullets. As for Elektra, she might be resurrected and stronger than before but she's definitely not impervious to damage from Clint's explosive or electrical arrows.

This might be a tough fight if Matt manages to disarm either Clint or Nat early on in the fight.

Elektra and Daredevil constantly dodged bullets so the "heat" Clint and Widow are packing is nothing. I'm so tired of them facing aliens and robots that they should easily beat human adversaries excuse. Mysticism hasn't really been addressed in the MCU.

 

[jolldan]

Elektra and Daredevil constantly dodged bullets so the "heat" Clint and Widow are packing is nothing. I'm so tired of them facing aliens and robots that they should easily beat human adversaries. Mysticism hasn't really been addressed in the MCU.

Have they dodged gunfire at a reactionary level (Sort of like Wonder Woman in that Justice League scene)? Like I know in any superhero show or movie they usually evade gunfire multiple times but I usually put that down to plot armour. However if they do have reactionary feats I’m open to changing my mind.

 

[Batmannerism]

Have they dodged gunfire at a reactionary level (Sort of like Wonder Woman in that Justice League scene)? Like I know in any superhero show or movie they usually evade gunfire multiple times but I usually put that down to plot armour. However if they do have reactionary feats I’m open to changing my mind.

Yeah, there's a big difference between Wonder Woman , Flash or even Spider Man who can physically move out of the path of a bullet that would otherwise hit them, and Daredevil or Batman who move quickly so that their opponents miss because they aren't tracking their movements quick enough.

I'm not convinced Daredevil and Elektra can dodge incoming gunfire.

I think this fight comes down to Elektra - I'm not as familiar with the MCU version, but the comic book version would easily kill Nat and Clint. If this is resurrected Elektra, who's tougher and stronger than usual, as well as being a deadly ninja, then that's an edge that gives her team the win.

I think Daredevil could take Clint or Nat in unarmed combat, but would fall afoul of Nat's tasers or bullets. Dodging arrows is not as easy as it may sound.

In a sword fight Clint is pretty lethal - but Elektra is death itself.

I'll say a narrow win for Daredevil and Elektra 6/10, with Clint and Nat prevailing 4/10.

 

[Docker2.0]

Yeah, there's a big difference between Wonder Woman , Flash or even Spider Man who can physically move out of the path of a bullet that would otherwise hit them, and Daredevil or Batman who move quickly so that their opponents miss because they aren't tracking their movements quick enough.

I'm not convinced Daredevil and Elektra can dodge incoming gunfire.

I think this fight comes down to Elektra - I'm not as familiar with the MCU version, but the comic book version would easily kill Nat and Clint. If this is resurrected Elektra, who's tougher and stronger than usual, as well as being a deadly ninja, then that's an edge that gives her team the win.

I think Daredevil could take Clint or Nat in unarmed combat, but would fall afoul of Nat's tasers or bullets. Dodging arrows is not as easy as it may sound.

In a sword fight Clint is pretty lethal - but Elektra is death itself.

I'll say a narrow win for Daredevil and Elektra 6/10, with Clint and Nat prevailing 4/10.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Looks like Docks is getting upset, we don't like it when he's upset.

But I can see why he expects DAREDEVIL & ELEKTRA to win, that's why I'm backing him up on this one.

 

[Docker2.0]

Looks like Docks is getting upset, we don't like it when he's upset.

But I can see why he expects DAREDEVIL & ELEKTRA to win, that's why I'm backing him up on this one.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

This gif is a win.

 

[VictusMortuus]

I think Matt’s abilities and senses mixed with Elektras enhancements due to her resurrection and both of their fighting abilities are above Hawkeyes and on par or slightly superior to BW. 6/10 times I’m going to say DD and E win.

 

[Luigi]

Elektra and Daredevil constantly dodged bullets so the "heat" Clint and Widow are packing is nothing. I'm so tired of them facing aliens and robots that they should easily beat human adversaries excuse. Mysticism hasn't really been addressed in the MCU.

Elektra and Daredevil have dodged bullets from random goons but not from trained professionals like Clint and Nat. Clint's explosive arrows also make a world of a difference.

 

[Docker2.0]

Elektra and Daredevil have dodged bullets from random goons but not from trained professionals like Clint and Nat. Clint's explosive arrows also make a world of a difference.

Daredevil took out the Hand alone and Elektra is a zombiefied power house. Open your eyes man!

 

[Luigi]

Daredevil took out the Hand alone and Elektra is a zombiefied power house. Open your eyes man!

I'm still standing my ground. Clint and Nat are on a different level compared to the Hand.

 

[Batmannerism]

I'm still standing my ground. Clint and Nat are on a different level compared to the Hand.

Clint vs Matt I see as being reasonably even, unless it takes place in the dark.

Straight up fight Widow vs Elektra then, who wins ?

IMO Elektra is a whole different level of deadly - Nat is an assassin, but Elektra is something else.

What are your thoughts ?

 

[jolldan]

Yeah, there's a big difference between Wonder Woman , Flash or even Spider Man who can physically move out of the path of a bullet that would otherwise hit them, and Daredevil or Batman who move quickly so that their opponents miss because they aren't tracking their movements quick enough.

I'm not convinced Daredevil and Elektra can dodge incoming gunfire.

I think this fight comes down to Elektra - I'm not as familiar with the MCU version, but the comic book version would easily kill Nat and Clint. If this is resurrected Elektra, who's tougher and stronger than usual, as well as being a deadly ninja, then that's an edge that gives her team the win.

I think Daredevil could take Clint or Nat in unarmed combat, but would fall afoul of Nat's tasers or bullets. Dodging arrows is not as easy as it may sound.

In a sword fight Clint is pretty lethal - but Elektra is death itself.

I'll say a narrow win for Daredevil and Elektra 6/10, with Clint and Nat prevailing 4/10.

Yeah like somebody could shoot at me and if I ran they might miss every shot but I wouldn’t classify myself as a bullet dodger lol.

After sitting on it for a day I’m sticking with my Clint and Nat pick mostly for Clints assortment of arrows. As while I can buy that Elektra and Daredevil can maybe dodge a direct hit from one of Clints arrows there are a few he has that I think just do to much more overall damage in a wider area. These four spring to mind
Google Image Result for https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11131/111316222/5784891-hawkeye%20guided%20scatter%20shot%20arrow.gif
Google Image Result for https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11131/111316222/5784890-hawkeye%20remote%20explosive%20arrow.gif
Google Image Result for https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11131/111316222/5784890-hawkeye%20remote%20explosive%20arrow.gif
Google Image Result for https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CookedShallowChevrotain-size_restricted.gif