Batman Begins Newsarama's Top 10 Comic Book-Based Movies of All Time: Guess Who's #1? Not TDK!!

[Two-Face]

I'm happy for BB it doesn't get enough credit due to TDK, in my opinion BB is great as TDK.

 

[El Payaso]

I'm happy for BB it doesn't get enough credit due to TDK, in my opinion BB is great as TDK.

BB was the seed, I give you that. But the action, one-liners, Rachel and some dialogues are quite weak. Whereas in TDK they're notoriously better. The action is much better, the one-liners are decent and not scene-ruiners as in BB, Rachel was portrayed by a better actress and had a better role in the story. And Jonah Nolan's dialogues are gold compared to the repetitive informative Goyer's ones, not to mention his moral-wannabes. The difference between both movies is too obvious for me.

The term "masterpiece" kinda loses its meaning when it's assigned to films like B89...

The term "humour" kinda loses its meaning when it's forced into posts like that one... :meow:

 

[redfirebird2008]

Without Downey Jr Iron Man is still a good story told without any false pretention. No morals or larger-than-life hollow speeches. And Downey wasn't the only good acting job there.

Now, flaws more or less, TDK is a masterpiece.

I thought Howard was awful in Iron Man and Bridges didn't do anything other than the same schtick he's been doing for years. Paltrow was surprisingly good. I was expecting her to be the weakest part of the movie but she wasn't.

 

[El Payaso]

I thought Howard was awful in Iron Man and Bridges didn't do anything other than the same schtick he's been doing for years. Paltrow was surprisingly good. I was expecting her to be the weakest part of the movie but she wasn't.

Aww, I liked Bridges. Maybe due to the fact that I couldn't recognize him; I swear, I didn't even know he was in the movie. I kept thinking, whoa, that guy is doing a great role how is it that he's no famous actor that I know? Afterwards I was in shock when I found out he was good ol' Jeff.


But well, yes, Palthrow was surprisingly good.

 

[MysterioMenace]

Def. nice to see B89 on the list. In some ways I do prefer Batman Begins. Obviously it's a much better Batman film in the sense that it's a better Bruce Wayne movie. He's the focal point. Bale shined in Begins, whereas his performance in Dark Knight (I found) less then phenomenal. I’d say he was definitely the weak link. Plus I missed staples like the Batcave and Wayne Family flashbacks that were excluded from Dark Knight. I would say Dark Knight's the more intelligent, psychological, and overall entertaining of the two…but from a title character perspective, that being Batman himself, Begins is the better Batman movie. Joker’s far more the star of both B89 and Dark Knight both.

As for Spider-Man 2 (or any Spider-Man for that matter) being better then Iron Man, I shout blasphemy!

 

[November Rain]

a true comic book masterpiece will have great drama and great action.

tdk has great drama but nolan can't film true action for ****.

it has upped the ante but can certainly be bettered.

 

[The Batman]

Without Downey Jr Iron Man is still a good story told without any false pretention. No morals or larger-than-life hollow speeches. And Downey wasn't the only good acting job there.

Now, flaws more or less, TDK is a masterpiece.

I doubt it...without downey and favs, IM would've been "Fantastic Four" level at best....the cliche end fight, imo, proves that the bare bones of the script was a cliched mess before those two fixed it

 

[the_scream]

The term "humour" kinda loses its meaning when it's forced into posts like that one... :meow:

Or that one. t:

 

[Chewy]

I doubt it...without downey and favs, IM would've been "Fantastic Four" level at best....the cliche end fight, imo, proves that the bare bones of the script was a cliched mess before those two fixed it

And without Nolan and Bale, BB (or whatever Batman V WB made) would have been awful and TDK probably wouldn't have happened at all.



...what an odd way to critique a film.

 

[El Payaso]

I doubt it...without downey and favs, IM would've been "Fantastic Four" level at best....the cliche end fight, imo, proves that the bare bones of the script was a cliched mess before those two fixed it

Then maybe Fantastic Four was a good movie ruined by terrible actors and a bad director. I can buy that.

But it is all natural; if you put good actors and a good director in a movie things start to get much better. It's like taking Batman Begins' director, actors and concept and add to it an actual good script with good dialogues and better action... you get TDK which is a masterpiece. See?

Now, how does the IM's final fight being cliché (because it is cliché) prove that the rest of the movie is any bad anyways?

Or that one.

Absolutely, it ends being just "humour" and starts to be intelligent funny critique with a base.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

Spider-Man 2 was robbed!

 

[redfirebird2008]

Then maybe Fantastic Four was a good movie ruined by terrible actors and a bad director. I can buy that.

But it is all natural; if you put good actors and a good director in a movie things start to get much better. It's like taking Batman Begins' director, actors and concept and add to it an actual good script with good dialogues and better action... you get TDK which is a masterpiece. See?

Now, how does the IM's final fight being cliché (because it is cliché) prove that the rest of the movie is any bad anyways?



Absolutely, it ends being just "humour" and starts to be intelligent funny critique with a base.

The final fight was bad in Iron Man, but the portrayal of the terrorists was pretty awful too. Those were the two worst things about the movie. The terrorists were complete caricatures. And TDK is not a masterpiece. It's got its share of problems just like Iron Man or Batman Begins. Biggest problems in TDK are Bale's Batman voice, the ferry boat plot, and the sonar plot.

 

[the_scream]

The final fight was bad in Iron Man, but the portrayal of the terrorists was pretty awful too. Those were the two worst things about the movie. The terrorists were complete caricatures. And TDK is not a masterpiece. It's got its share of problems just like Iron Man or Batman Begins. Biggest problems in TDK are Bale's Batman voice, the ferry boat plot, and the sonar plot.

Iron Man was a great, fun movie that was competently made. But it was a safe film that pretty much followed the generic comicbook formula. Downey Jr was the only thing in the film that created a sense of originality and surprise because of his wonderful, deadpan and eccentric performance.

Everything else was still pretty good if underwhelming. Hurt served the role well until he just became a one-note maniacal madman who was willing to use his war machine to kill innocent people on the street. Sorry, but a savvy businessman like him wouldn't be so obvious or stupid. The showdown just felt really forced.

The terrorist sub-plot is ok but I agree that they are pretty much caricature "bad-guys". This is ok for a comicbook movie but a bit dissapointing because the villain is just so...dull.

On the plus side, the CGI is top-notch. But really, an Iron Man sequel will have a lot more promise now that they will be able to invest some real time and money into the project. It is no TDK though. Remove Ledger and you still have Bale, Oldman, Eckhart, Freeman and the always wonderful Caine. The action scene involving the bat-pod is better than anything in Iron Man. Give me the interrogation scene anyday over all of Iron Man.

 

[[A]]

Hm-Hmm.. I think A History of Violence should be above 300..

 

[redfirebird2008]

Iron Man was a great, fun movie that was competently made. But it was a safe film that pretty much followed the generic comicbook formula. Downey Jr was the only thing in the film that created a sense of originality and surprise because of his wonderful, deadpan and eccentric performance.

Everything else was still pretty good if underwhelming. Hurt served the role well until he just became a one-note maniacal madman who was willing to use his war machine to kill innocent people on the street. Sorry, but a savvy businessman like him wouldn't be so obvious or stupid. The showdown just felt really forced.

The terrorist sub-plot is ok but I agree that they are pretty much caricature "bad-guys". This is ok for a comicbook movie but a bit dissapointing because the villain is just so...dull.

On the plus side, the CGI is top-notch. But really, an Iron Man sequel will have a lot more promise now that they will be able to invest some real time and money into the project. It is no TDK though. Remove Ledger and you still have Bale, Oldman, Eckhart, Freeman and the always wonderful Caine. The action scene involving the bat-pod is better than anything in Iron Man. Give me the interrogation scene anyday over all of Iron Man.

I agree with your post though I'll correct you on one thing. William Hurt was the general in the Incredible Hulk. He's not in Iron Man. The actor you are referring to in Iron Man is Jeff Bridges. Easy to get them mixed up though. They're pretty similar actors.

There's a whole bunch of elements in TDK that I would take all day long over anything in Iron Man. Another one that I would add to your list is the part where Joker interrogates the fake Batman. Or the ending, which is heartbreaking to watch yet shows exactly why Batman is such an icon, being willing to take the blame for horrific things he didn't do while continuing to fight for the people who will now hunt him down like an animal.

 

[d.k.]

the list isnt the best but Spider-Man 2 is better than Iron Man....and TDK....well that movie should be number 1 without hesitation...Batman Begins at 2 or 3....

Yeah a few years ago i would've put spider-man 2 on top but after seeing Batman Begins, and The Dark Knight, I'd have to put it a few notches down. It doesn't have the same appeal as it used to have for me.

 

[the_scream]

I agree with your post though I'll correct you on one thing. William Hurt was the general in the Incredible Hulk. He's not in Iron Man. The actor you are referring to in Iron Man is Jeff Bridges. Easy to get them mixed up though. They're pretty similar actors.

There's a whole bunch of elements in TDK that I would take all day long over anything in Iron Man. Another one that I would add to your list is the part where Joker interrogates the fake Batman. Or the ending, which is heartbreaking to watch yet shows exactly why Batman is such an icon, being willing to take the blame for horrific things he didn't do while continuing to fight for the people who will now hunt him down like an animal.

Whoops. My mistake. I always get them confused.

 

[El Payaso]

The final fight was bad in Iron Man, but the portrayal of the terrorists was pretty awful too. Those were the two worst things about the movie. The terrorists were complete caricatures.

Yeah well, the terrorists in IM could have been much better. But even when the final fight was average it wasn't actually "bad," was it? It was under my expectattions yes, but "bad," I don't know.

And TDK is not a masterpiece. It's got its share of problems just like Iron Man or Batman Begins. Biggest problems in TDK are Bale's Batman voice, the ferry boat plot, and the sonar plot.

I can compare BB to TDK any day because they share the same cast and elements and in every item TDK beats BB by far.

If I compare Iron Man to TDK, TDK is better which doesn't mean Iron Man is any bad. But TDK had a brilliant plot and almost all of it was brilliantly done.

And comapred to the rest of the movies of the genre, TDK is top 3. On top of that, most - if not all - of the movie had a outstanding result. That makes me label it a masterpiece. But yes, I give you Bale's bat-voice, that was weak.

Now I have to ask, why the ferrys and sonar plots were a problem for you. For me they were simply some of the best parts of the movie. But I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Infinity9999x]

TDK did the exact same thing. That movie didn't go to any new places either. Why does TDK get a free pass? Because it took itself ultra-serious? Because it borrowed from successful crime films like Heat? Borrowed the execution of its plot twists from movies like "Saw"? Those films were successful in the past too. When people start throwing around words like "masterpiece" and "perfect" for TDK I can't help but think the film is vastly overrated. Without Heath Ledger's Joker the film is pedestrian at best.

What? It didn't do anything different? Let's take a step back here. TDK was the first comic film to take a mainstream comic hero and step away from the classic comic formula, and do it well. In it, we don't have the hero winning at the end. He catches the villain yes, but Joker pretty much won in everything he did except the boats. We have a main love interest who was developed over two films dying, and we have the hero framing himself for murder and being hated and hunted at the end of the movie.

Furthermore, it had an intelligent plot (not perfect, but it was smart) and it didn't simply try to only be an action movie. Also, it has multiple important characters, and it doesn't feel too jumbled or loose track of the it's narrative. It actually manages to juggle multiple characters and villains and make it work, unlike many other comic films (B&R or SM3 anyone?)

It in no way followed any previous mainstream comic movie. It took risks, and it paid off. Other movies have tried to branch out (Ang's Hulk for example, though that still followed the basic comic formula), but they don't always turn out good.

a true comic book masterpiece will have great drama and great action.

tdk has great drama but nolan can't film true action for ****.

it has upped the ante but can certainly be bettered.

While the fist fights weren't amazing, I'd have to say that the car chases were pretty freaking good. I'd have to say it's probably up there as one of the best car chases I've seen, not to mention the whole Chinese building jumping/blowing out a window and being snagged by a plane scene, which had very good action, the last scene with the swats, and to add to all that the great explosion scenes.

So yeah, I'd say TDK had really good action.

 

[hegele]

I stopped caring after i saw 300 on the list...

What a stupid film.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Yeah well, the terrorists in IM could have been much better. But even when the final fight was average it wasn't actually "bad," was it? It was under my expectattions yes, but "bad," I don't know.



I can compare BB to TDK any day because they share the same cast and elements and in every item TDK beats BB by far.

If I compare Iron Man to TDK, TDK is better which doesn't mean Iron Man is any bad. But TDK had a brilliant plot and almost all of it was brilliantly done.

And comapred to the rest of the movies of the genre, TDK is top 3. On top of that, most - if not all - of the movie had a outstanding result. That makes me label it a masterpiece. But yes, I give you Bale's bat-voice, that was weak.

Now I have to ask, why the ferrys and sonar plots were a problem for you. For me they were simply some of the best parts of the movie. But I'm genuinely curious.

I felt the acting by the citizens during the ferry boats scene was pretty bad, and I felt the idea of a "pick your poison" climax has been done so many times in action movies that it was no good. I expected the Joker's climax to be less cliched than a doomsday scenario. I felt the sonar thing was ******ed. Over the top and pointless. Reminds me of the microwave emitter in Batman Begins. Over the top and pointless. TDK loses quite a bit of steam after the Joker visits Harvey at the hospital. But the final conversation between Batman and the Joker is excellent, except for Bale's terrible voice. And then the final scene with Dent, Gordon, and Batman is one of the best in the entire movie.

 

[The Englishman]

I felt the acting by the citizens during the ferry boats scene was pretty bad, and I felt the idea of a "pick your poison" climax has been done so many times in action movies that it was no good. I expected the Joker's climax to be less cliched than a doomsday scenario. I felt the sonar thing was ******ed. Over the top and pointless. Reminds me of the microwave emitter in Batman Begins. Over the top and pointless. TDK loses quite a bit of steam after the Joker visits Harvey at the hospital. But the final conversation between Batman and the Joker is excellent, except for Bale's terrible voice. And then the final scene with Dent, Gordon, and Batman is one of the best in the entire movie.

Bales voice is not terrible......

 

[redfirebird2008]

Bales voice is not terrible......

In the final scene with the Joker it definitely is.

"This city...just showed you...that it's full of people...ready to believe in GOOOOOOOOD!"

"You'll be in a padded cell forever!"

"There won't be any fireworks!"

All 3 of these lines featured HORRIBLE delivery from Bale. The one time he got it right during that scene was when he whispered, "What did you do?" with that look of horror and nervousness on his face. Ledger's performance during that scene was flawless and it felt laughable hearing him have to respond after Bale's "You'll be in a padded cell forever!" growl.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

In the final scene with the Joker it definitely is.
"This city...just showed you...that it's full of people...ready to believe in GOOOOOOOOD!"
"You'll be in a padded cell forever!"
"There won't be any fireworks!"
All 3 of these lines featured HORRIBLE delivery from Bale. The one time he got it right during that scene was when he whispered, "What did you do?" with that look of horror and nervousness on his face. Ledger's performance during that scene was flawless and it felt laughable hearing him have to respond after Bale's "You'll be in a padded cell forever!" growl.

Have to agree Bale's batvoice is unbelievably awful in places. I think some people are kidding themselves sometimes when they say it is awesome and the like. It really works well in some places but in others it is atrocious. Like in the poor man's Long Halloween scene with Dent, Gordon and Bats:
"IF I GET HIM BACK, CAN YOU GET HIM TO TALK?"
I only figured out what he said when Dent responded "I'll get him to sing". Not to mention his casual talk with Gordon in the bank, Bale really needs to calm down in his talks with Gordon and others so that he isn't permanently growling.

 

[DarkKnight245]

It's nice to see Batman Begins at numero uno. It's underrated because of TDK. But it's solid at telling Batman's story the way it needed to be told. We wouldn't have TDK without BB. Both of Nolan's films have made me proud to be a Batman fan.